Players Who Are Less Than Their Resumes?

[MadLuke]

I think that guy meant "reputation" and not "resume"

And I think he could even agree that Price was less than his reputation while being more than his resume.

 

[dalewood12]

Eric Staal.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Ray Bourque, he's got one heck of a resume that seems like GOAT'd DMan ever, but is probably a little shy of that.

Trophies and leaders​

• Won the Calder Memorial Trophy in 1980
• Won the Norris Trophy in 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991 and 1994
• Won the King Clancy Memorial Trophy in 1992
• Received the Lester Patrick Trophy in 2003
• Stanley Cup champion in 2001
• Led the NHL in shots in 1984, 1987 and 1995

NHL All-Star teams​

• NHL first team All-Star in 1980, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, and 2001.
• Second Team All-Star in 1981, 1983, 1986, 1989, 1995 and 1999.

NHL All-Star Game​

• Named to play in the All-Star Game for the 19th consecutive season, 2001; Bourque also appeared in the All-Star Game in every season that it was held during his career (there was no game in 1987 or 1995).
• Most Valuable Player of the All-Star Game in 1996.
• Won the NHL All-star Game Shooting Accuracy Competition in 1990, 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001.

This is... a take.

Bourque accumulated this resume during the deepest era in NHL history for defenceman, while playing for a pedestrian team (most years).

The players on this list that actually fit the criteria either played on stacked teams or played during a time where their competition was weak or injured.

If anything Bourque's resume undersells how good he was, as there are at least two more Norris' that he had a very strong argument to win, and definitely would've won if he wasn't in the most stacked era for defenceman.

This resume is also missing a Hart trophy, which he was inches away from winning (closest vote in NHL history at the time).

I just don't see how Bourque's resume oversells him at all.

 

[The Macho King]

Ray Bourque, he's got one heck of a resume that seems like GOAT'd DMan ever, but is probably a little shy of that.

Trophies and leaders​

• Won the Calder Memorial Trophy in 1980
• Won the Norris Trophy in 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991 and 1994
• Won the King Clancy Memorial Trophy in 1992
• Received the Lester Patrick Trophy in 2003
• Stanley Cup champion in 2001
• Led the NHL in shots in 1984, 1987 and 1995

NHL All-Star teams​

• NHL first team All-Star in 1980, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, and 2001.
• Second Team All-Star in 1981, 1983, 1986, 1989, 1995 and 1999.

NHL All-Star Game​

• Named to play in the All-Star Game for the 19th consecutive season, 2001; Bourque also appeared in the All-Star Game in every season that it was held during his career (there was no game in 1987 or 1995).
• Most Valuable Player of the All-Star Game in 1996.
• Won the NHL All-star Game Shooting Accuracy Competition in 1990, 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001.

He's a little shy of the best ever because Bobby Orr exists. Beyond that he's exactly where he should be.

 

[Voight]

This is... a take.

Bourque accumulated this resume during the deepest era in NHL history for defenceman, while playing for a pedestrian team (most years).

The players on this list that actually fit the criteria either played on stacked teams or played during a time where their competition was weak or injured.

If anything Bourque's resume undersells how good he was, as there are at least two more Norris' that he had a very strong argument to win, and definitely would've won if he wasn't in the most stacked era for defenceman.

This resume is also missing a Hart trophy, which he was inches away from winning (closest vote in NHL history at the time).

I just don't see how Bourque's resume oversells him at all.

Not to mention, the Bruins probably don't make two finals in three years without him. & even when he joined a stacked Avs squad, he lead the entire team in ice time at forty years old.

 

[MadLuke]

He's a little shy of the best ever because Bobby Orr exists. Beyond that he's exactly where he should be.

And like I said the time of that message, Bobby Orr resume is arguably clearly better than Bourque,

8xNorris in a row, winning 2 smythe, Canada cup MVP, 3xHart, Pearson, a career of playing at a 110 pts by 82 games pace.... with an average +73 by 82 games.

The Orr > Bourque is often made only using their respective resume and not a collection of video of each others that compare them.

I feel Bourque as the second best resume at best (is it better than say Lidstrom or Harvey...), which seem to be perfectly fine.

the Bruins probably don't make two finals in three years without him.

And those 2 Smythe type of cup run can be a little bit missed by someone looking at his resume a bit fast.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

He has the benefit of playing with the #1C.

Instead of keeping him, they traded him and put Alfie with Spezza. He was deemed expendable at the time.

Alfredsson always made the players on his line better so he was moved around and played with guys like Todd White and Bryan Smolinski.



He’s in the HHoF because he was the third wheel in some Cup wins.

That’s the part of the resume that mattered in the end.

Hossa was dealt by Ottawa because of his newly signed expensive contract.

 

[VanIslander]

Hossa is not near the top of any worst list.

 

[NyQuil]

Hossa was dealt by Ottawa because of his newly signed expensive contract.

They would have kept him if they didn’t think he was expendable gicen the depth at the position.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

They would have kept him if they didn’t think he was expendable gicen the depth at the position.

Sorry but this is inaccurate.

The salary cap was at like 39 million, Ottawa was a bit of a poverty franchise, and they signed him to a big deal and then immediately dealt him because Heatley came available, and they couldn't really afford Hossa. Look for literature from around the time of the trade.

 

[NyQuil]

Sorry but this is inaccurate.

The salary cap was at like 39 million, Ottawa was a bit of a poverty franchise, and they signed him to a big deal and then immediately dealt him because Heatley came available, and they couldn't really afford Hossa. Look for literature from around the time of the trade.

This is also overly sinplistic.

Ottawa would go on to pay Spezza ($7.5M), Heatley ($7.5M) and Redden ($6.5M) more than what they signed Hossa ($6M) for within a couple of years.

The idea that they were too impoverished to pay Hossa is silly.

They did achieve some cap savings at the time of the trade, but if he were important enough to their success, they would have moved other guys out to make cap space.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

This is also overly sinplistic.

Ottawa would go on to pay Spezza, Heatley and Redden more than what they signed Hossa for within a couple of years.

The idea that they were too impoverished to pay Hossa is silly.

They did achieve some cap savings at the time of the trade, but if he were important enough to their success, they would have moved other guys out to make cap space.

I'm telling you man, I'm a 40 year old man and I remember the trade well.

There was no narrative that "Hossa isn't important enough to keep".

It was a shocking trade, especially coming so quickly after signing him to a big ticket.

It was driven by money and the hope that Heatley was a cheaper, high scoring, fit whom they were surprised was available as a distressed asset.

 

[NyQuil]

I'm telling you man, I'm a 40 year old man and I remember the trade well.

There was no narrative that "Hossa isn't important enough to keep".

It was a shocking trade, especially coming so quickly after signing him to a big ticket.

It was driven by money and the hope that Heatley was a cheaper, high scoring, fit whom they were surprised was available as a distressed asset.

I’m a 46 year old man and I was living in the city at the time.

The logjam at RW and the recent loss to the Leafs factored in just as much as moving cap money around.

It was shocking because of the nature of the sign and trade. It was not considered to be a very courteous thing to do, and Ottawa under Johnston and Mlakar had been known around the league as a classy organization. John Muckler pulled the trigger and there was some degree of cynicism for treating a home produced talent that way.

When Hossa was signed, it was an expected signal that they had chosen Hossa as one of their building blocks for the future. As a result, other moves were expected. But that feeling obviously didn’t last long as he was traded soon afterward.

But at the same time, Ottawa fans were tired of losing to Toronto. They had acquired Bondra at the previous deadline to play on his offside at LW in the top six and that experiment didn’t work at all.

Change was being demanded. The feeling in Ottawa was much like it is in Toronto now, with too few deep playoff runs given their general competitiveness.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I’m a 46 year old man and I was living in the city at the time.

The logjam at RW and the recent loss to the Leafs factored in just as much as moving cap money around.

It was shocking because of the nature of the sign and trade. It was not considered to be a very courteous thing to do, and Ottawa under Johnston and Mlakar had been known around the league as a classy organization.

When Hossa was signed, it was an expected signal that they had chosen Hossa as one of their building blocks for the future. As a result, other moves were expected. But that feeling obviously didn’t last long as he was traded soon afterward.

But at the same time, Ottawa fans were tired of losing to Toronto. They had acquired Bondra at the previous deadline to play on his offside at LW in the top six and that experiment didn’t work at all.

Change was being demanded.

Tried looking for articles from that time.

A lot of them focused on the Heatley aspect (human interest, etc). But I found a retrospective from a Sens blog that lists some facts:

From: 10 Years Later: Hossa for Heatley

"With the Senators hovering around the $31 million mark in salary and the newly instituted cap set at $39 million, Ottawa was right up against the upper limit with the Hossa deal. Had the case been decided in arbitration, the award could have been even higher and the team risked losing him as a UFA 12 months later. It wasn’t a salary considered in isolation either. Then Senators GM John Muckler had an eye on the following summer when star defensemen Wade Redden and Zdeno Chara could both walk as UFAs and winger Martin Havlat would need a new deal. The situation might have been even trickier had Sens captain Daniel Alfredsson not signed a 5-year deal after the 2003-04 season. Signed before the 2004-05 lockout, it was subject to a 25% rollback when play finally resumed the following season. After a lucrative $7.5 million signing bonus, Alfie was set to make just $4.66 million in 2005-06. Had Alfie signed another short term deal in 2004, he might have been deemed expendable in the post-lockout world as the Sens struggled to get both star wingers under contract. Had the Sens kept Hossa after signing him to that three year deal ten years ago, Alfie, signed long term and to an affordable deal for a star player, might have been appealing trade bait."

So Alfredsson had already been signed to a big deal. It was a timing thing and a cap thing, it wasn't a referendum on Hossa's worth as a player.

 

[NyQuil]

I’ve read the article.

And again, teams find ways to make it work if they truly are an irreplaceable franchise talent which Ottawa clearly didn’t believe.

They clearly didn’t think having Heatley instead of Hossa with Alfredsson and Havlat was enough of a downgrade to do so.

How is it not a referendum on the player when the team ships you out for another player?

The cap makes things complicated but not impossible.

I don’t see what is so difficult to understand about this.

 

[rmartin65]

I'm telling you man, I'm a 40 year old man and I remember the trade well.

I’m a 46 year old man and I was living in the city at the time.

I have to say, I loved this exchange. Strong Mike Gundy vibes,

I'm a Man, I'm 40

 

[NyQuil]

I have to say, I loved this exchange. Strong Mike Gundy vibes,

I'm a Man, I'm 40

Age is a weird flex on the history of hockey board.

I love that clip btw.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I’ve read the article.

And again, teams find ways to make it work if they truly are an irreplaceable franchise talent which Ottawa clearly didn’t believe.

They clearly didn’t think having Heatley instead of Hossa with Alfredsson and Havlat was enough of a downgrade to do so.

How is it not a referendum on the player when the team ships you out for another player?

The cap makes things complicated but not impossible.

I don’t see what is so difficult to understand about this.

So much of it was about timing. That they had already signed Alfredsson and his contract was subject to the rollback, etc.

That Heatley was found money at a lower cap hit whom they thought (and were correct) would fit well with Spezza and Alfredsson.

My point was, you made it sound like they didn't believe in Hossa overall and that that was the primary contributing factor when it really wasn't the case.

Age is a weird flex on the history of hockey board.

I love that clip btw.

It's not a 'flex'.

It was just me saying that I was an adult and a hockey nerd (still am) at the time. So it's not a post-hoc stats based evaluation or whatever.

 

[NyQuil]

So much of it was about timing. That they had already signed Alfredsson and his contract was subject to the rollback, etc.

That Heatley was found money at a lower cap hit whom they thought (and were correct) would fit well with Spezza and Alfredsson.

My point was, you made it sound like they didn't believe in Hossa overall and that that was the primary contributing factor when it really wasn't the case.

The Leafs have bent over backwards trying to keep their core together given the cap constraints they faced, sacrificing depth, picks and players in other areas of the team.

If it were important enough to keep Hossa, they would have found a way.

Originally I took issue with someone saying he was “the guy” in Ottawa because those guys don’t get traded.