Value of: Derrick Pouliot

[bernmeister]

Forget it Empo, it's bernmeister.

The guy once proclaimed that Dave Keon was Kreider's low-end upside. Now think about how many ways that's ridiculous.

not to have this whole thread spin to this, but just for a one post answer, I hold to that remark, and have been proven vindicated and largely correct, notwithstanding we will not have a final conclusion until Kreider's career is more fully complete.

I made that remark based on blazing speed of both CK and DK. Thought Chris might be employed more at C, but he has emerged to have way more muscle that there is a beast factor which supports use as a W.

There is still a period of further benefiting from ongoing experience, which is par for nearly all players. Especially as to quickly playing defense with continued mixing of lines. But he has obviously more than turned the corner.

With the correct linemates, he continues to have a very bright future.

some differences in styles, clearly

but when all is said and done, barring injury, we will see how apt this comparison will prove itself to be

 

[Magua]

The Flyers don't really have anyone expansion exempt between Sanheim and Hagg, which is around the level for what I think would be fair for Pouliot. I think Sanheim and Pouliot are basically equal prospects, but Pouliot being expansion and waiver eligible makes him less valuable.

They're not. Forget draft pedigree. Even with the Flyers very deep pool of prospects, most fans would call Sanheim the #1 prospect in the system with Provorov graduating.

And fwiw, most Flyers fans don't think too much of Hagg, though he's still not without some lower end NHL potential at his young age. So the divide between Hagg and Sanheim as Flyers prospects is the Grand Canyon. They also have Morin as expansion exempt, and though he's technically between Hagg Sanheim, his value and potential is a whole lot closer to Sanheim than Hagg.

 

[Paradise*]

You asked for a prospect
given the uncertainty of Pouilot, you're not getting the ask
I offered a solid prospect + adds based on what Pouiiot delivers

No apologies if Tambo is not spectacular enough for you, and if you think right now you can get what you're asking, by all means, knock yourself out.

I don't consider my offer -- down payment of a prospect and promise of additional futures compensation as two halves -- to be 'spare parts'.

You basically want Brady Skjei, or more accurately, Skjei a year or two from where he is now, for Pouilot. Given production to date it is unreasonable.

Rangers will gamble within reason, but not offer reward-risk accommodating any silly demands.

I'm sure Pittsburgh could find a better deal out of conference/division. I doubt they take the risk of making NYR a better team.

 

[Ranfordrocks]

griffen reinhart for derrick pouliot

 

[Frozenice]

Beaulieu for Pouliot?

Beaulieu can skate better, fight better and except for his occasional brain f**t is an NHL calibre d man who will be an affordable player for a team like the Penguins. Montreal seems to prefer (or MT, anyways) a more cerebral player which Pouliot is.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

not to have this whole thread spin to this, but just for a one post answer, I hold to that remark, and have been proven vindicated and largely correct, notwithstanding we will not have a final conclusion until Kreider's career is more fully complete.

I made that remark based on blazing speed of both CK and DK. Thought Chris might be employed more at C, but he has emerged to have way more muscle that there is a beast factor which supports use as a W.

There is still a period of further benefiting from ongoing experience, which is par for nearly all players. Especially as to quickly playing defense with continued mixing of lines. But he has obviously more than turned the corner.

With the correct linemates, he continues to have a very bright future.

some differences in styles, clearly

but when all is said and done, barring injury, we will see how apt this comparison will prove itself to be

 

[The Greatest 101]

Hope the pens use him to trade up at the draft.

 

[bernmeister]

I'm sure Pittsburgh could find a better deal out of conference/division. I doubt they take the risk of making NYR a better team.

agreed
I was not pushing for a deal
I was offering courtesy reply to OP

 

[Empoleon8771]

You asked for a prospect
given the uncertainty of Pouilot, you're not getting the ask
I offered a solid prospect + adds based on what Pouiiot delivers

A. No I didn't, I asked for an expansion exempt D prospect with a slightly lower ceiling than Pouliot.
B. There is no uncertainty with Pouliot, just repeating it doesn't make it true. Pouliot doesn't have a concussion or some chronic issue, he got hurt blocking a shot. If you think that lowers his value to a spare part prospect, I don't know what to tell you.
C. You didn't offer a solid prospect, you offered a prospect that every team has like 4 of. Do you really think the Penguins would trade their top D prospect, one that they drafted 8th overall, for a spare part and a conditional pick.

No apologies if Tambo is not spectacular enough for you, and if you think right now you can get what you're asking, by all means, knock yourself out.

I don't consider my offer -- down payment of a prospect and promise of additional futures compensation as two halves -- to be 'spare parts'.

Well you'd be wrong, because it's literally the exact definition of spare parts. A 3rd rounder who's putting up mediocre AHL numbers isn't the centerpiece for a top end D prospect, how you think it is just shows how hilariously biased you are.

You basically want Brady Skjei, or more accurately, Skjei a year or two from where he is now, for Pouilot. Given production to date it is unreasonable.

No I don't, I want an expansion exempt D prospect with a slightly lower ceiling than Pouliot. That likely means an AHLer in his first or second year as a pro. Just because I'm not going to accept your crap offer doesn't mean I'm asking for a top pair defenseman.

Rangers will gamble within reason, but not offer reward-risk accommodating any silly demands.

You're not gambling with the Rangers, you're offering an extremely expendable prospect for a very good prospect. A gamble with the Rangers would be offering one of their young NHL forwards in the Miller or Vesey group for Pouliot.

They're not. Forget draft pedigree. Even with the Flyers very deep pool of prospects, most fans would call Sanheim the #1 prospect in the system with Provorov graduating.

Sanheim and Pouliot are very equal prospects, how are they not? Pouliot's numbers in the WHL are almost identical to Sanheim's and they play basically the same style. Pouliot's AHL track record is also better (but he was also there for longer). They're very similar level prospects, the only difference is that Pouliot is older and hasn't established himself at the NHL level yet. T

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

A. No I didn't, I asked for an expansion exempt D prospect with a slightly lower ceiling than Pouliot.
B. There is no uncertainty with Pouliot, just repeating it doesn't make it true. Pouliot doesn't have a concussion or some chronic issue, he got hurt blocking a shot. If you think that lowers his value to a spare part prospect, I don't know what to tell you.
C. You didn't offer a solid prospect, you offered a prospect that every team has like 4 of. Do you really think the Penguins would trade their top D prospect, one that they drafted 8th overall, for a spare part and a conditional pick.



Well you'd be wrong, because it's literally the exact definition of spare parts. A 3rd rounder who's putting up mediocre AHL numbers isn't the centerpiece for a top end D prospect, how you think it is just shows how hilariously biased you are.



No I don't, I want an expansion exempt D prospect with a slightly lower ceiling than Pouliot. That likely means an AHLer in his first or second year as a pro. Just because I'm not going to accept your crap offer doesn't mean I'm asking for a top pair defenseman.



You're not gambling with the Rangers, you're offering an extremely expendable prospect for a very good prospect. A gamble with the Rangers would be offering one of their young NHL forwards in the Miller or Vesey group for Pouliot.



Sanheim and Pouliot are very equal prospects, how are they not? Pouliot's numbers in the WHL are almost identical to Sanheim's and they play basically the same style. Pouliot's AHL track record is also better (but he was also there for longer). They're very similar level prospects, the only difference is that Pouliot is older and hasn't established himself at the NHL level yet. T

Why are you wasting keystrokes trying to formulate a coherent argument when the poster you're replying to just stated that Kreider's career has vindicated his opinion that Dave Keon - an all-time great two-way center who was the centerpiece of the Leafs early '60s dynasty - was his low-end projection?

Do you enjoy bashing your head against a brick wall in your spare time too?

 

[TheMurrlinWall]

I don't understand why Pens fans are so down on Pouliot. Most don't realize that he's only 22 y/o. Most defensemen dont make the NHL until ~24 y/o and don't hit their prime until ~28 y/o. He's already shown he can play at the NHL level, but hasn't been given a shot to stay in the lineup for an extended period outside of the second half of 2014-2015, when he played well. I say we find a way to hold onto him, which would most likely mean bribing LV with a pick/prospect. However, I have another interesting scenario that is a long shot, but not out of the realm of possibility. *If* Bonino signs with LV before the expansion draft, LV can't take another Pens player, but that's just me dreaming. Anyway, I reallt think the Pens should hold on to Pouliot, because I think that once he gets a real shot, he could be something great.

 

[Spazkat]

I don't understand why Pens fans are so down on Pouliot. Most don't realize that he's only 22 y/o. Most defensemen dont make the NHL until ~24 y/o and don't hit their prime until ~28 y/o. He's already shown he can play at the NHL level, but hasn't been given a shot to stay in the lineup for an extended period outside of the second half of 2014-2015, when he played well. I say we find a way to hold onto him, which would most likely mean bribing LV with a pick/prospect. However, I have another interesting scenario that is a long shot, but not out of the realm of possibility. *If* Bonino signs with LV before the expansion draft, LV can't take another Pens player, but that's just me dreaming. Anyway, I reallt think the Pens should hold on to Pouliot, because I think that once he gets a real shot, he could be something great.

While that is true, look at the other D taken from the same draft. It's not out of line at all to compare a player to others from their draft year to assess progression and estimate value. Of those taken in the first round only Reinhart, Pouliot and Matheson have not earned a regular roster spot

Num. Player
2 Ryan Murray
4 Griffin Reinhart
5 Morgan Rielly
6 Hampus Lindholm
7 Mathew Dumba
8 Derrick Pouliot
9 Jacob Trouba
10 Slater Koekkoek
15 Cody Ceci
22 Olli Maatta
23 Michael Matheson
25 Jordan Schmaltz
28 Brady Skjei

 

[Empoleon8771]

Beaulieu for Pouliot?

Beaulieu can skate better, fight better and except for his occasional brain f**t is an NHL calibre d man who will be an affordable player for a team like the Penguins. Montreal seems to prefer (or MT, anyways) a more cerebral player which Pouliot is.

I like Beaulieu, but he's eligible for the expansion draft and we'd likely lose him to expansion. He's only a LD as well, correct?

Why are you wasting keystrokes trying to formulate a coherent argument when the poster you're replying to just stated that Kreider's career has vindicated his opinion that Dave Keon - an all-time great two-way center who was the centerpiece of the Leafs early '60s dynasty - was his low-end projection?

Do you enjoy bashing your head against a brick wall in your spare time too?

What I like doing in my free time is irrelevant to this conversation

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

While that is true, look at the other D taken from the same draft. It's not out of line at all to compare a player to others from their draft year to assess progression and estimate value. Of those taken in the first round only Reinhart, Pouliot and Matheson have not earned a regular roster spot

Num. Player
2 Ryan Murray
4 Griffin Reinhart
5 Morgan Rielly
6 Hampus Lindholm
7 Mathew Dumba
8 Derrick Pouliot
9 Jacob Trouba
10 Slater Koekkoek
15 Cody Ceci
22 Olli Maatta
23 Michael Matheson
25 Jordan Schmaltz
28 Brady Skjei

Reinhart, koekkoek, Matheson,Schmaltz,and you can also argue Skjei have all not secured roster spots. So that's like half of the 1st round Dman including Pouliot. He still hasn't time to grow and based on pure skill he should be in the top4. Unless the Pens get a top4 Dman prospect who's exempt, then no deal.

 

[Paradise*]

Reinhart, koekkoek, Matheson,Schmaltz,and you can also argue Skjei have all not secured roster spots. So that's like half of the 1st round Dman including Pouliot. He still hasn't time to grow and based on pure skill he should be in the top4. Unless the Pens get a top4 Dman prospect who's exempt, then no deal.

I wouldn't include either Matheson or Skjei. Both are playing well and look like top 4 D.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

I wouldn't include either Matheson or Skjei. Both are playing well and look like top 4 D.

Idk they both play in teams with bad D cores. If Pouliot was on either one of those teams, he would also be playing. Pens just have no room for him.

 

[Paradise*]

Idk they both play in teams with bad D cores. If Pouliot was on either one of those teams, he would also be playing. Pens just have no room for him.

I wouldn't say either NYR or Florida have bad D cores.

Don't forget that Matheson won best D at the world championships. Playing big on the international stage at his age has to count for something.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I actually think Matheson is a pretty good comparable for where Pouliot is right now. The only difference between the two is that Pouliot has been in the pros for a lot longer, but both are the same age, both are around the same level right now and both project to be good top-4 puck movers.

 

[go4hockey]

capfriendly nothing on how severe is his illness, projected return

Offer Tambelini as downpayment for your immediate use, with reasonable mutually agreed picks prospects depending upon his health
A larger deal including Staal/Klein can be considered

Congrats you offers are always total junk. Here you offer up an AHL forward that will never see the NHL. Good work.

 

[TheMurrlinWall]

While that is true, look at the other D taken from the same draft. It's not out of line at all to compare a player to others from their draft year to assess progression and estimate value. Of those taken in the first round only Reinhart, Pouliot and Matheson have not earned a regular roster spot

Num. Player
2 Ryan Murray
4 Griffin Reinhart
5 Morgan Rielly
6 Hampus Lindholm
7 Mathew Dumba
8 Derrick Pouliot
9 Jacob Trouba
10 Slater Koekkoek
15 Cody Ceci
22 Olli Maatta
23 Michael Matheson
25 Jordan Schmaltz
28 Brady Skjei

I would argue that Pouliot is good enough that if he were in any of those other defensemen's situations, he would be playing in a similar role as they are. He hasn't really been given a shot in Pittsburgh yet.

 

[Paradise*]

I would argue that Pouliot is good enough that if he were in any of those other defensemen's situations, he would be playing in a similar role as they are. He hasn't really been given a shot in Pittsburgh yet.

A few of them are already playing 1st pair D (Lindholm, Rielly, Trouba). Besides Reinhart and Schmaltz (Koekkoek is close), I think Pouliot is further and most likely worse than the rest of them.

IMO it was a poor pick from the beginning. Pouilot was a reach at the time (mid 1st in most rankings). Should have went with Trouba or Forsberg there.

Hopefully he's left exposed and Vegas gives him his chance.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Leafs wanted him in the kessel deal.

Him for a forward?

 

[Johny Drama]

Might be alone on this, but I would rather trade Maatta for a significant piece and put Pouliot in our top 4. The kid needs a chance to play and I actually thinks he's better for our system than Maatta

Maatta+Sheary for a Good LW and a decent depth D

Leafs would move JVR for that package.
Has shown good chemistry with Kessel in the past.

 

[Trxjw]

Idk they both play in teams with bad D cores. If Pouliot was on either one of those teams, he would also be playing. Pens just have no room for him.

There's nowhere for Pouliot to play with the Rangers. That is unless he can play the right-side without issue and I don't recall him ever being particularly effective there.

 

[OCPenguin]

Sorry about the paywall article but I think the title says enough. Personally I would rather keep him, but it would be interesting to hear what people would be willing to offer for him.

Bust of a prospect right now ... certainly doesn't have much trade value. I don't know why this topic continues to be brought up. Prospects that don't show much get little in return.