Player Discussion Derrick Pouliot, Pt. II: Will not be qualified (again)

[Peter10]

Pouliot has been great, what are people talking about. When you're down 3-1 you have to take some chances, and he looked good doing it. When he wasn't up in the rush he's generally been one of our more solid defensemen and best outlet passer with Tanev out. Oh and he's a great skater, puck handler and aggressive in the corners. What more do people want? Consistent production on a team that can't score?

Points in 7 of 31 games and in 1 of the last 12 isnt really what I would call consistant production.

 

[Addison Rae]

Points in 7 of 31 games and in 1 of the last 12 isnt really what I would call consistant production.

Yup, he has scored points in 1 of his last 12 games and is a -9 in that span, saying that this player has been "great" is laughable.

Objectively he's been sub replacement level junk recently and is showing why a quality organization turfed him for essentially nothing. The Penguins were destroyed with injuries on their defensive core last year, yet Pouliot barley played at all, and he's showing why with his recent play.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Yup, he has scored points in 1 of his last 12 games and is a -9 in that span, saying that this player has been "great" is laughable.

Objectively he's been sub replacement level junk recently and is showing why a quality organization turfed him for essentially nothing. The Penguins were destroyed with injuries on their defensive core last year, yet Pouliot barley played at all, and he's showing why with his recent play.

Man come on, Jim Benning knows more about this guy than the 2-time stanley cup winning org that just turfed him! Sure they preferred to dress Mark Streit's corpse over Pouliot in the playoffs last year, but I'm sure he's going to figure it out any second.

 

[iceburg]

Yup, he has scored points in 1 of his last 12 games and is a -9 in that span, saying that this player has been "great" is laughable.

Objectively he's been sub replacement level junk recently and is showing why a quality organization turfed him for essentially nothing. The Penguins were destroyed with injuries on their defensive core last year, yet Pouliot barley played at all, and he's showing why with his recent play.

Hutton, 1 point and -8 in his last 19 games.
Stecher, 0 points and -8 in his last 18 games.
Del Zotto, 4 assists and -12 in his last 19 games.

So, I guess, objectively, 67% of the blueline is "replacement level junk". Or just maybe the team has been that bad and, unless your name is Tanev or Edler, you're going to have a pretty ugly stat line.

 

[rune74]

Jesus, double standards for the win in this thread. He has played well considering what we paid for him and the expectations when we got him.

Let's keep doing somersault to tell us why he is horrible and we lost a 4th round generational talent here.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Yup, he has scored points in 1 of his last 12 games and is a -9 in that span, saying that this player has been "great" is laughable.

Objectively he's been sub replacement level junk recently and is showing why a quality organization turfed him for essentially nothing. The Penguins were destroyed with injuries on their defensive core last year, yet Pouliot barley played at all, and he's showing why with his recent play.

glad you admit the 4th was basically nothing.

but can you really want to hate this guy so bad you'll even use plus/minus against him?

because if we are going to go plus minus here, how about the fact the team is -18 and has been outscored by 45-27 goals in the last 12 games?

amazingly, in a stretch where the team has been outscored by an average of 1.5 goals per game, a young offensively minded dman has been trying to be a difference maker and has been burned. knock me over with a feather.

 

[Melvin]

Hutton, 1 point and -8 in his last 19 games.
Stecher, 0 points and -8 in his last 18 games.
Del Zotto, 4 assists and -12 in his last 19 games.

So, I guess, objectively, 67% of the blueline is "replacement level junk". Or just maybe the team has been that bad and, unless your name is Tanev or Edler, you're going to have a pretty ugly stat line.

Yikes those numbers.

 

[Hodgy]

Hutton, 1 point and -8 in his last 19 games.
Stecher, 0 points and -8 in his last 18 games.
Del Zotto, 4 assists and -12 in his last 19 games.

So, I guess, objectively, 67% of the blueline is "replacement level junk". Or just maybe the team has been that bad and, unless your name is Tanev or Edler, you're going to have a pretty ugly stat line.

With that being said, wouldn't you expect a crappy team like this to have quite a few "replacement level junk" players? I mean, if we didn't have these type of players, then we probably wouldn't be the crappy team we are.

 

[Cupless44]

Hutton, 1 point and -8 in his last 19 games.
Stecher, 0 points and -8 in his last 18 games.
Del Zotto, 4 assists and -12 in his last 19 games.

So, I guess, objectively, 67% of the blueline is "replacement level junk". Or just maybe the team has been that bad and, unless your name is Tanev or Edler, you're going to have a pretty ugly stat line.

Great post.

Looking at this defence, you can make a case to sit out any of Hutton, Stecher, Del Zotto or Pouliot. No one has been good.

I support giving Pouliot a longer look. He is basically the only defenceman that can hit the net with his shot and make a good stretch pass. Too many mistakes still, but I do see him getting more physically engaged of late.

 

[Addison Rae]

Hutton, 1 point and -8 in his last 19 games.
Stecher, 0 points and -8 in his last 18 games.
Del Zotto, 4 assists and -12 in his last 19 games.

So, I guess, objectively, 67% of the blueline is "replacement level junk". Or just maybe the team has been that bad and, unless your name is Tanev or Edler, you're going to have a pretty ugly stat line.

No, you're right all these players have been absolutely awful recently and they're a reason why this team is getting destroyed.

The thing is at least someone like Hutton has a sample size of being a quality NHL defender, Pouliot doesn't he didn't crack the NHL full time until his draft + 7 season on a team that finished 2nd last in the NHL the year before.

He had a good stretch of games but looks like the guy a quality organization turfed for spare parts now.

Point towards the other 3 defenders poor player just points towards how awful this teams pro-scouting is, Jim Benning has been here for 4 years and has yet to bring in a quality top 4 defender, yikes.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Great post.

Looking at this defence, you can make a case to sit out any of Hutton, Stecher, Del Zotto or Pouliot. No one has been good.

I support giving Pouliot a longer look. He is basically the only defenceman that can hit the net with his shot and make a good stretch pass. Too many mistakes still, but I do see him getting more physically engaged of late.

Agreed. I like Hutton the best of the 4, and for a while there he was playing great, but holy crap he looked horrendous on Gio's (1st?) goal the other day. That whole group is playing like 7/8 dmen right now. Take ur pick!

 

[Addison Rae]

glad you admit the 4th was basically nothing.

but can you really want to hate this guy so bad you'll even use plus/minus against him?

because if we are going to go plus minus here, how about the fact the team is -18 and has been outscored by 45-27 goals in the last 12 games?

amazingly, in a stretch where the team has been outscored by an average of 1.5 goals per game, a young offensively minded dman has been trying to be a difference maker and has been burned. knock me over with a feather.

How am I "hating this guy" he's a "young offensive minded dman" who's not scoring and bleedimf goals against with his recent play.

MS already stated this Pouliot was getting ridiculously easily deployment earlier in the season and was showing decent results, now that's actually being deployed as a proper NHL defender he's getting killed. It's not a coincidence, any defender can show decent results with that type of deployment, I'm sure Patrick Wiercioch would have produced similar results too.

This notion that this guys been an amazing acquisition is ridiculous, he's a bottom pairing guy that needs easy minutes to succedd no different than Yannick Weber, Patrick Wiercioch, Marc-Andre Bergeron etc.

He literally has no track record of being a good NHL defender when not getting the easiest of deployment.

 

[RobertKron]

Quick let’s trade Stetcher for an actual f***ing cat so we can outperform expectations.

 

[RobertKron]

Also the idea that YOUNG DREW DOUGHTY is being exposed to some kind of super mean double standard because he’s being judged on his merits as an NHL defenseman rather than like “is he alive? If yes then that’s not too bad!!” Is goddamn hilarious.

I mean like, they could have accidentally traded for DARREN Pouliot, the warehouse worker from Wichita, Kansas, so if you think of it that way, this guy is basically Wayne motherf***ing Gretzky!

 

[MarkMM]

Hutton, 1 point and -8 in his last 19 games.
Stecher, 0 points and -8 in his last 18 games.
Del Zotto, 4 assists and -12 in his last 19 games.

So, I guess, objectively, 67% of the blueline is "replacement level junk". Or just maybe the team has been that bad and, unless your name is Tanev or Edler, you're going to have a pretty ugly stat line.

The way I read it is that Benning has utterly failed at putting together a blue-line. If he hadn't squandered draft picks, Forsling, blown the Kesler trade and others on "age-gap" failures and screwed up on cap space, things could be different and we wouldn't desperately need Pouliot to over-perform to save the team.

 

[I am toxic]

No, you're right all these players have been absolutely awful recently and they're a reason why this team is getting destroyed.

The thing is at least someone like Hutton has a sample size of being a quality NHL defender, Pouliot doesn't he didn't crack the NHL full time until his draft + 7 season on a team that finished 2nd last in the NHL the year before.

He had a good stretch of games but looks like the guy a quality organization turfed for spare parts now.

Point towards the other 3 defenders poor player just points towards how awful this teams pro-scouting is, Jim Benning has been here for 4 years and has yet to bring in a quality top 4 defender, yikes.

Lest we forget.

Benning hasn't been perfect and i haven't cosigned all of his moves but he has done a stellar job at rebuilding this D in less than 2 years with limited assets.

Bravo? Perhaps Encore is more appropriate.

 

[iceburg]

No, you're right all these players have been absolutely awful recently and they're a reason why this team is getting destroyed.

The thing is at least someone like Hutton has a sample size of being a quality NHL defender, Pouliot doesn't he didn't crack the NHL full time until his draft + 7 season on a team that finished 2nd last in the NHL the year before.

He had a good stretch of games but looks like the guy a quality organization turfed for spare parts now.

Point towards the other 3 defenders poor player just points towards how awful this teams pro-scouting is, Jim Benning has been here for 4 years and has yet to bring in a quality top 4 defender, yikes.

Hutton, Stecher, Pouliot, and Del Zotto are similar in some respects. All have a decent skill set that could translate in to being a quality top 4 D-man but none have yet proven that they are. And that's where Del Zotto separates himself in a bad way from this group. At 27 years old and with >500 NHL games, he is at or beyond his peak. We've seen as much as he can give and, at best, he can be a fill in in the top 4. All of Hutton, Stecher, and Pouliot could develop into top 4 D-men. Not saying they will, just saying they're currently NHL caliber defensemen with that upside potential. Someone else can look up the zone exit stats but Pouliot must be right up there as one of the better Canucks. He has quite a bit of poise exiting the zone, much more than Hutton has demonstrated lately.

 

[I in the Eye]

The best that can be said about pouliot right now, is that he's not a part of the solution.

 

[krutovsdonut]

How am I "hating this guy" he's a "young offensive minded dman" who's not scoring and bleedimf goals against with his recent play.

MS already stated this Pouliot was getting ridiculously easily deployment earlier in the season and was showing decent results, now that's actually being deployed as a proper NHL defender he's getting killed. It's not a coincidence, any defender can show decent results with that type of deployment, I'm sure Patrick Wiercioch would have produced similar results too.

This notion that this guys been an amazing acquisition is ridiculous, he's a bottom pairing guy that needs easy minutes to succedd no different than Yannick Weber, Patrick Wiercioch, Marc-Andre Bergeron etc.

He literally has no track record of being a good NHL defender when not getting the easiest of deployment.

you are full of it.

here is you on december 7th in this thead.

That's the issue with analytics they always favour skill players playing soft minutes. Pouliot has been getting better all season long, but he absolutely isn't a top 4 defender yet.

so as of 6 games ago, you thought he had been steadily improving all season but now he's been sub-replacement for the past 12 games ?

ok. sure.

here's my hot take using your bizarre analysis. i say pouliot is the next erik karllson because pouliot has 3 points and is only -8 in the last 12 games so he is trending better than karlsson who is -12 with 3 points in the last 12 games.

you want other reasons i think you have a transparent agenda here?

using stats you normally ridicule to attack him? check
taking no account of team performance when attacking individual player? check
relying on bogus subjective deployment argument when it suits your argument? check
using appeal to authority (pittsburgh is genius) to attack when it suits your argument? check
hyperbolic criticism completely out of proportion to his performance? check

here's my take on the player:

pouliot's had a tough 10 games along with the rest of the team. it's not near enough yet to discount what he did earlier, but at times he's forgetting his fundamentals in his hurry to be a guy who pushes play and he needs to calm down. it is important to consider when evaluating his current play that he's currently playing in deployments completely different to the way he was used early on. that being said, he is reaching to be a much better player than he is and that is encouraging.

we'll see how he tracks for a bigger snap shot than 10 games. if he actually trends as you apparently want him to trend, for reasons i don't grasp given you're a canuck fan, then i'll admit you're right. can i look forward to the same from you?

 

[vancityluongo]

Pouliot is not the bonafide top-4/Drew Doughty-lite that he was claimed to be in early November, nor is he likely sub-replacement level even based on the last 10 games. He is exactly what he should have been expected to be; a kid with a lot of talent who can't seem to put it together consistently. When everything goes right, he can play spot duty as a serviceable 4/5 defenseman. When things go the other way, any team playing him big minutes probably sucks and should look to pull him out of the lineup. On average, he's a bottom-pairing defenseman that as a whole doesn't hurt a team, but doesn't help much either, and probably shouldn't be considered a "core" piece in any way.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Also the idea that YOUNG DREW DOUGHTY is being exposed to some kind of super mean double standard because he’s being judged on his merits as an NHL defenseman rather than like “is he alive? If yes then that’s not too bad!!” Is goddamn hilarious.

I mean like, they could have accidentally traded for DARREN Pouliot, the warehouse worker from Wichita, Kansas, so if you think of it that way, this guy is basically Wayne mother****ing Gretzky!

you really needed four posts and allcaps to make the point that "better than expected" requires a point of reference?

 

[krutovsdonut]

Pouliot is not the bonafide top-4/Drew Doughty-lite that he was claimed to be in early November.

don't think there is a single post claiming he was that in early november. maybe you can point me to them? is there maybe a straw man thread i am missing?

 

[krutovsdonut]

The best that can be said about pouliot right now, is that he's not a part of the solution.

so are you positive the trade sucks again?

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Jesus it really is gonna be Granlund 2.0. Every time he gets a point or makes a gaffe, this thread is going to have gloating back and forth like some sort of angry tennis match.

 

[I in the Eye]

so are you positive the trade sucks again?

Are you working on a boat again? Are you a ship hand? Address the point... or don't. No need to phish.

Right now, pouliot isn't a part of the solution... nothing confrontational about that statement. If he was a part of the solution, most Canucks fans would love it (despite what your mind is telling you). At best, it's on a level of bad, where does he rank in a defensive corp. that currently isn't playing very good.