Injury Report: Derek Stepan (11/6: Will return Saturday)

[AHB*]

Its not 6 weeks.

And that "top player" has issues of his own. Including no guarantee he will be a member of this team one year from now.

You think the Rangers playing a large portion of their season with one NHL top 9 center isn't going to impact their performance?

Amazing.

How is it not 6 weeks? That was the max time span they put on it. Even if it's 8 weeks it's less then two months of the season and under a quarter of our season.

Large portion? 10-15 games is a large portion? That math is flat out wrong. Man, I can't imagine what you were like after our 2-8 start last year

People are acting like this is a season ending injury. Best case scenario is Stepan misses 6-8 games, worst case is 15-20 (which would give him nearly 9 weeks from the injury, an extreme worst case scenario). Even in that regard, I think they will be more then fine.

The East is not very strong, the Rangers have a ton of depth, maybe not at center, but they have guys who can step up and provide things. Look, no one is happy about this injury, but it's really an ideal time for him to get hurt if he was going to and quite frankly, if the Rangers can't gut out 10-20 games without someone in their lineup, then they aren't strong enough to do any of the things we hope they can this year.

 

[Thirty One]

How Stepan Injury May Change Usage of Bottom-Six

News came down yesterday that Derek Stepan will miss 4-6 weeks with a fractured fibula, leaving a hole at the top of the Rangers’ lineup. It’s likely that the shuffle resulting from Stepan’s absence will alter the way Alain Vigneault uses his bottom six.

For most of last season, the Rangers’ centermen consisted of Dominic Moore, who received a very heavy load of defensive zone starts, and three other centers, each receiving neutral to favorable zone start assignments.

......

..

 

[Thirty One]

Man, I can't imagine what you were like after our 2-8 start last year

I would guess 60% of this board wanted AV fired...

 

[AHB*]

I would guess 60% of this board wanted AV fired...

I'd guess higher and frankly I don't really blame anyone. But if anything, last season showed that a slow start doesn't really mean much. Think of the guys that led us to the playoffs/finals versus guys who started on the team.

Through those first ten games there was no:

Kreider
Hags
MSL
Klein

Zucc was pathetic. Girardi looked like a scrub. JT Miller was completely unseasoned. The teams system was pathetic.

I mean the whole thing was in complete disarray. And where did they end up, the SCF.

 

[Bluenote13]

One thing I've always found amusing about hockey debates on any board, not just HF, is that pessimism is deemed reality while optimism is automatically labeled fantasy. You're always going to have those who think the team is no good and there is no way to survive any new obstacles that come the team's way. If you say otherwise, you aren't living in reality. Even going the cup finals was considered "pure luck" by some of these pessimistic "fans" of the team.

Stepan is a tough loss, but all we can do at this point is make projections and predictions that will be optimistic, pessimistic or right on the fence. Reality will be the results that we see after games are played.

I don't get it.

We are weaker today at center than we were two days ago. That's reality.

People seem to put an emphasis on being deep at Center. How can you argue the importance of winning the battle of Center ice in hockey? It's not the be all end all, but losing a top 2 Center is crucial to any team. When you take a step back, how can you not factor in the probabilities ?

And this team relies on the sum of its parts more than one individual, but some of those players can play a steady game at a high level eating up minutes, sometimes they're not as easy to replace just because one or two prospects or aging vets can be 'slotted' in.

Again, this is actually good timing, if it happened in March we'd really be looking at a serious issue. For now, this team is just starting out, just starting to climb, the strengths of this team are still intact and will step up and lead, if they can't hold up to one injured forward for less than 2 months this is not a great team to begin with.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I'd guess higher and frankly I don't really blame anyone. But if anything, last season showed that a slow start doesn't really mean much. Think of the guys that led us to the playoffs/finals versus guys who started on the team.

Through those first ten games there was no:

Kreider
Hags
MSL
Klein

Zucc was pathetic. Girardi looked like a scrub. JT Miller was completely unseasoned. The teams system was pathetic.

I mean the whole thing was in complete disarray. And where did they end up, the SCF.

Callahan and/or Nash were hurt as well?

 

[Championship*]

Moving Dom Moore to third line center gives NYR a more traditional look where the 3rd line is more worried about the defensive side of things. I think it shakes out like Brass-Miller-Moore-Lombardi. Nash and Zucc up on one line and Kreids and MSL roll with Miller.

 

[Thirty One]

I'd guess higher and frankly I don't really blame anyone.

You're more understanding than I am.

 

[offdacrossbar]

It's not lowering the bar. Not even sure how you got to that.

Size in the middle is a nice to have. Speed down the middle is a nice to have. Clearly there are other ways to win than having a 6'3 200lb center who scores 100 points on your first line. People rip on Stepan for not being a blazing skater, but he's also the best center on the roster by a considerable margin, and is one of the better centers in the league.

The middle can be weak if you have strength in other areas to make up for it. Which this team does. Every team goes through stretches where they can't score. Lack of size and speed has almost nothing to do with it.

oh but it does and did. remember the scf last year ? i do.

la was bigger stronger and faster than we were up the middle. not sure anyone would debate that.

they pretty much had their way with us on those particular matchups.

our lack of size and speed up the middle matters. to what degree is unknown.

 

[Trxjw]

oh but it does and did. remember the scf last year ? i do.

la was bigger stronger and faster than we were up the middle. not sure anyone would debate that.

they pretty much had their way with us on those particular matchups.

our lack of size and speed up the middle matters. to what degree is unknown.

I remember the countless missed opportunities the Rangers had to win the game in all three overtime games. I also remember our speed on the wings causing fits for the slower, bigger forwards on the Kings roster. The Rangers had a lot of trouble in their own end due to the Kings being a bigger team, but it wasn't simply because our centers were smaller. Most of our team was smaller. That's generally the trade off you make by being a small, quick team.

Does size play a role? Of course it does. However, it's not the achilles heel you're making it out to be.

 

[bernmeister]

I assume because he has looked somewhat decent with Kreider... and also a BC connection of chemistry.

exactly!
And decent considering this was first preseason game, had to re-find their game together, had to adjust to unknown in Kristo, was not bad at all.

People, please.

it is not necessary to think in rigid terms of Kreider's line as 1 or 2 or 3.
(Which by extension, if they are smart to keep Hayes with Kreider, means Hayes would be the 1, 2 or 3 C).
We have 3 deep lines, and a checking line.
The three are gonna get roughly the same amount of time.
No prob if Brass+ Zuc are 1, Kreider and Hayes 2, and Miller with Hags + MSL 3 esp. given the speed game of that last line and keeping their minutes not excessive to keep them fresh.

Do NOT say Kreider is our best LW, so he belongs with our best C, and our best RW. Consider chemistry, yes, but synergy is a helpful additive to promoting/obtaining such chemistry!

 

[NYR713]

I don't get it.

We are weaker today at center than we were two days ago. That's reality.

People seem to put an emphasis on being deep at Center. How can you argue the importance of winning the battle of Center ice in hockey? It's not the be all end all, but losing a top 2 Center is crucial to any team. When you take a step back, how can you not factor in the probabilities ?

And this team relies on the sum of its parts more than one individual, but some of those players can play a steady game at a high level eating up minutes, sometimes they're not as easy to replace just because one or two prospects or aging vets can be 'slotted' in.

Again, this is actually good timing, if it happened in March we'd really be looking at a serious issue. For now, this team is just starting out, just starting to climb, the strengths of this team are still intact and will step up and lead, if they can't hold up to one injured forward for less than 2 months this is not a great team to begin with.

Ha... I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing here... with the "I don't get it" part. Maybe you don't get what I wrote or the meaning behind it, or you agree and don't get the pessimism always having to be reality.

Either way, you made some good points. Reality is that we are weaker up the middle as of right now, like you said. But, as you mentioned this team is more about being the sum of all of it's parts. We have wingers who are playmakers, 2-way players, checkers and scoring types... not just goal scorers expecting the centers to provide the puck control, passing and defense.

If we look at the line Stepan was projected (by writers and analysts) to center being Kreider-Step-MSL, is it optimal to have a guy like Dom Moore as the center of that line for a full season? No. He doesn't provide enough offense. But, for 10-12 games he can provide the defensive play Stepan does and can win more faceoffs. MSL can continue to be the real playmaker and scorer of the line and Kreider bangs bodies, forechecks and scores a few more, just like he would if Step was there. When Step is back, that line gets a little more offensive potential without losing the defensive ability from the pivot, still allowing his wingers to do what they do. Lombardi, who can win faceoffs and play good D, can then center the 4th line and 1st or 2nd PK.

Or, JT Miller shows that he is ready to be a full time NHL player who can be defensively responsible while providing offense and gets his first 10-12 games of this season surrounded by top 6 line mates.

Again, it's a tough situation losing your #1 but it definitely isn't the end of the season.

 

[bernmeister]

Ha... I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing here... with the "I don't get it" part. Maybe you don't get what I wrote or the meaning behind it, or you agree and don't get the pessimism always having to be reality.

Either way, you made some good points. Reality is that we are weaker up the middle as of right now, like you said. But, as you mentioned this team is more about being the sum of all of it's parts. We have wingers who are playmakers, 2-way players, checkers and scoring types... not just goal scorers expecting the centers to provide the puck control, passing and defense.

If we look at the line Stepan was projected (by writers and analysts) to center being Kreider-Step-MSL, is it optimal to have a guy like Dom Moore as the center of that line for a full season? No. He doesn't provide enough offense. But, for 10-12 games he can provide the defensive play Stepan does and can win more faceoffs. MSL can continue to be the real playmaker and scorer of the line and Kreider bangs bodies, forechecks and scores a few more, just like he would if Step was there. When Step is back, that line gets a little more offensive potential without losing the defensive ability from the pivot, still allowing his wingers to do what they do. Lombardi, who can win faceoffs and play good D, can then center the 4th line and 1st or 2nd PK.

Or, JT Miller shows that he is ready to be a full time NHL player who can be defensively responsible while providing offense and gets his first 10-12 games of this season surrounded by top 6 line mates.

Again, it's a tough situation losing your #1 but it definitely isn't the end of the season.

Those writers/analysts are wrong. Feel free to tell them I said so.
Kreider Hayes is the winning combo with the correct RW, Probably Nash for now, Haggerty when Nash moved to cap.

If there was a need to get some good stuff out of Dom Moore, who I like, and agree can play on a higher line than 4th, we want that but not at sake of ruining Hayes -Kreider, or Brass - Zuc, or speed (Miller) w/Hags-MSL. I have no problem advancing Lindberg to 4C and having D Moore somewhere as a W.

If Hayes can already cut the mustard, no need/reason to send him down.
PS - We must have a large C to adequately neutralize Getzlaf, etc. That is Hayes. He won't be Jan Erixon overnight, but if he can handle him just enough, that will be it for that line to win the day.

 

[Ail]

Everyone saying .500 while Stepan is out is something they can be happy with is setting the bar pretty low. Stepan is a big piece for this team, but come on. They could easily end up over .500 if the rest of the team is playing at their expected level. Stepan is not Crosby here.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

If we believe the timeline given for Stepan's recovery, it will be a month at most...it's still two weeks before the start of the season, so if he misses 6 weeks he should be back near the beginning of November

I suspect they can manage for that period of time until Stepan is back. The first month of the season is usually sloppy and all over the place anyways and if the Rangers can stick around .500 or better, they'd be off to a better start than they were last season.

Also, it's not ideal but it's not incredibly horrible either, you gotta be able to give your young players some trust and responsibility at some point. Miller was going to be a 3C for this team anyways and I suspect with Stepan out it's more that Dom Moore will get more icetime in important situations and less that Miller will be relied upon to do more than he originally was slated to.

Lindberg as 4C isn't bad at all IMO, the real issue is missing a PKer

From what the Wolfpack watchers and the people in Sweden have said, you need look no further than your (penciled in) 4th line center.

One player is not going to replace Stepan.

 

[NYR713]

Those writers/analysts are wrong. Feel free to tell them I said so.
Kreider Hayes is the winning combo with the correct RW, Probably Nash for now, Haggerty when Nash moved to cap.

If there was a need to get some good stuff out of Dom Moore, who I like, and agree can play on a higher line than 4th, we want that but not at sake of ruining Hayes -Kreider, or Brass - Zuc, or speed (Miller) w/Hags-MSL. I have no problem advancing Lindberg to 4C and having D Moore somewhere as a W.

If Hayes can already cut the mustard, no need/reason to send him down.
PS - We must have a large C to adequately neutralize Getzlaf, etc. That is Hayes. He won't be Jan Erixon overnight, but if he can handle him just enough, that will be it for that line to win the day.

Those writers/analysts were going off of AV's lines that he was rolling with different groups. Group A was practicing as Kreid-Step-MSL and Group B was practicing as Nash-Brass-Zucc. They are mixing the lines up for the games to see if there are other options and surrounding younger guys with vets, but those were the top 6 lines AV was originally projecting. Nash was even discussing in interviews how he is working on returning to LW in practice, which is something he feels he can be comfortable with again after playing the early years of his career there. I'll definitely take AV and local writers' word over yours.

Hayes still has to make the team. I seriously doubt he'd be ruined by giving him 3rd line minutes if he is able to show he's ready for the NHL over AHL. And did you say Nash is being moved and being replaced by Haggerty? Where did you get that news?

 

[Championship*]

If the Rangers are thin down the middle going into the playoffs, I'll worry. I'm not worrying about October. Teams with bad D and goaltending make the playoffs. Teams with piss poor offense and good D and goaltending make the playoffs. Winning once you're there is a different story, and that's where you need all 3 things. In October, you can get by relying on your strengths.

Does anybody think that the team we see in St. Louis on the 9th is the team we'll be seeing in April? Cause I sure as hell don't. Ever know the Rangers to sit on their hands?

 

[GOAT AINEC]

Could be a lot worse.

Staal broke his fibula and needs surgery and will be out for 3-4 months.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Could be a lot worse.

Staal broke his fibula and needs surgery and will be out for 3-4 months.

Not really. Canes weren't a team gunning for the cup this year IMHO. The Rangers are.

 

[Thirty One]

Not really. Canes weren't a team gunning for the cup this year IMHO. The Rangers are.

So that means the injury couldn't be worse?

gordon, pls

 

[Gardner McKay]

So that means the injury couldn't be worse?

gordon, pls

Of course it could be. But, comparing it to the Canes (who are not a cup contender) holds no relevance. So no, when comparing it to the Canes situation, it couldn't have been worse.

 

[Tawnos]

Everyone saying .500 while Stepan is out is something they can be happy with is setting the bar pretty low. Stepan is a big piece for this team, but come on. They could easily end up over .500 if the rest of the team is playing at their expected level. Stepan is not Crosby here.

I think the .500 expectation is the minimum. If they're .500, there's nothing to worry about. If they're below .500, it puts a strain on the season. I do think you're underestimating the impact Stepan has on this team though. Yeah, the team's forward strength is on the wing, but that enhances his importance, not diminishes it.

 

[AWall THE CLAW]

The Rangers are going to be fine. The best goaltender in the world is in the net and we boast a defensive depth that has one of Nashville's former shutdown men on the 3rd pair. AV is a smart enough coach to keep these games low scoring affairs if it becomes apparent that the offense won't be able to take off until Steps comes back. I'm predicting Stepan misses 10 games, the Rangers go 6-3-1 in them, and we all laugh at the doomsday predictions.

Hell... I'm not even predicting scoring woes because I have a feeling the PP is going to be dynamite.

 

[Tawnos]

The Rangers are going to be fine. The best goaltender in the world is in the net and we boast a defensive depth that has one of Nashville's former shutdown men on the 3rd pair. AV is a smart enough coach to keep these games low scoring affairs if it becomes apparent that the offense won't be able to take off until Steps comes back. I'm predicting Stepan misses 10 games, the Rangers go 6-3-1 in them, and we all laugh at the doomsday predictions.

Hell... I'm not even predicting scoring woes because I have a feeling the PP is going to be dynamite.

How long have you been a Rangers fan? It's such a rare thing.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

The Rangers are going to be fine. The best goaltender in the world is in the net and we boast a defensive depth that has one of Nashville's former shutdown men on the 3rd pair. AV is a smart enough coach to keep these games low scoring affairs if it becomes apparent that the offense won't be able to take off until Steps comes back. I'm predicting Stepan misses 10 games, the Rangers go 6-3-1 in them, and we all laugh at the doomsday predictions.

Hell... I'm not even predicting scoring woes because I have a feeling the PP is going to be dynamite.

Well, given that Stepan is the only right handed forward shot that gets PP minutes, I suspect the power play might feel his loss more than you think.

That being said, team should be fine. Rangers have enough kids on the cusp that they can fill in. Could turn out to be a blessing in disguise if one of the young guys really grabs hold of the opportunity.