Proposal: DeBrusk for Kapanen

[ManofSteel55]

For Kassian? No.

Yamamoto with a small plus going to Edmonton would be much more like it.

Doesn't work with the money in and out. It would need to be Kassian. Hell, make it Yamamoto and Kassian for Kapanen as far as I'm concerned, ha ha.

 

[Gurglesons]

Doesn't work with the money in and out. It would need to be Kassian. Hell, make it Yamamoto and Kassian for Kapanen as far as I'm concerned, ha ha.

Makes no sense for PIT.

Maybe for like Kassian, a 2nd, and McLeod. But even then I think we move Kapanen for something that doesn't involve an albatross contract in Kassian.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Cant see Penguins doing this.

Kapanen 25yrs RFA 2022

44gp

9g

15a

24p

+6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Debrusk 25yrs RFA 2022

38gp

7g

8a

15p

-3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Kapanen is a bit cheaper, more productive and play all situations. I see Bruins having to add a 2nd or similar?

No he doesnt.

Kapanen gets 65% o zone start, and 0:00 PK TOI. 24 Penguins get more PK time than he does.

Also, since this is a change of scenery trade, if both revert to the best play DeBrusk is firmly ahead with 27 goals in 68 games at his best vs 20 in 78 for Kapanen

 

[JohnHodgson]

Why anyone here acting like Jake Debrusk got any value?

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Why would the Pens do this?

 

[jonlin]

No he doesnt.

Kapanen gets 65% o zone start, and 0:00 PK TOI. 24 Penguins get more PK time than he does.

Also, since this is a change of scenery trade, if both revert to the best play DeBrusk is firmly ahead with 27 goals in 68 games at his best vs 20 in 78 for Kapanen

Are you always looking a few years back? Debrusk has been regressing for years. Kapanen playes a lot of PK on the Leafs. Debrusk has been a worse player than Kapanen the last 2+ seasons on a similar team.

Last 4yrs:

Kapanen 232gp 53g 81a 134p +31

DeBrusk 212gp 58g 48a 106p -1

DeBrusk is actually trending down fast. Their last 2yrs:

Kapanen 85gp 20g 34a 54p +19

DeBrusk 79gp 12g 17a 29p -2

 

[SomeDude]

Why would the Pens do this?

We've lost 4 in a row. Heads have to roll, duh.

I'm all for moving Kapanen because he is incredibly inconsistent, but this seems like a lateral move at best and more than likely a downgrade.

It's also BS that Sullivan doesn't like him. Sullivan heaped praise on him this summer to the degree that I have not heard him do for any other player outside of Sid, Geno, Letang. Kapanen is a frustrating player because he'll look like a star for a week and then he disappears for a month. When he's not scoring, he adds nothing to the team, so Sullivan puts him on the 4th line and people get mad. At some point you have to blame Kapanen for getting demoted almost every game when he starts in the top 6.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Is this a reasonable basis for a deal? The Penguins have seemingly tired of Kapanen at this point and DeBrusk asked for a trade a little while back. Both are about the same age and make about the same amount of money. Kapanen has been a bit more productive, so I think he might have a tad more value than DeBrusk, but is something around this basis reasonable?

This is a pretty close offer and I like it. I trust Kapanen more but I get if you think pairing Debrusk on the pens top 2 lines would cause him to bloom.

Good job!

 

[Ryder71]

Boston would have to add. I don't think it's terrible value though.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Why anyone here acting like Jake Debrusk got any value?

One can dream.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I'd love this from the Bruins.

 

[wintersej]

DeBrusk has those same concerns no? I don't think he's nearly as talented as Kapanen, so with those same concerns I just don't see why Pens would want him. If they were to trade Kapanen which is possible then they could do better I think.

DeBrusk has two seasons better than Kapanen's best. He scored at a 25 pace over his first three seasons. DeBrusk's game has just fallen apart the last two seasons. DeBrusk, I think, has more change of scenery potential and also a lower floor based on his play the last two seasons.

Kapanen is certainly better in a skills competition, but that hockey IQ is a real detriment. Kapanen is another Grabner and I think is what he is: an instant offense guy in your bottom six that doesn't play well with others.

Put another way, the Bruins have a bigger chance to come out ahead in this deal. The Pens have a better chance of coming out way ahead. DeBrusk had a tough time during the pandemic and came back this year behind Marchand and Hall in a known to be shallow Bruins lineup. He belongs in the top 6 for some team, and he will produce again. He isn't 35, he is 25. I liken him to Reilly Smith who was good in Boston and then just started sucking until he was traded, and now is a solid top six winger. He just needs a fresh start, really. I say this with all expectation that the Bruins will end up making a crap deal like they did with Smith in trading DeBrusk and knowing that no one will pay optimistic prices for DeBrusk.

As far as the OP? Meh. Not really sure what problem Kap solves for the Bruins. I'd be more interested in a trade that has worse value for Boston that actually fills a need.

 

[jonlin]

DeBrusk's game has just fallen apart the last two seasons.

Usually the last 2 seasons is what gives the best value for a player. You cant actually say "3-4yrs back this 25yr old was promising" and get that value. Kapanen has been consistent, even though DeBrusk had a higher peak like 4yrs ago. Teams will actually pay for "what have you done lately" and not for what they did years ago...

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

DeBrusk has two seasons better than Kapanen's best. He scored at a 25 pace over his first three seasons. DeBrusk's game has just fallen apart the last two seasons. DeBrusk, I think, has more change of scenery potential and also a lower floor based on his play the last two seasons.

Kapanen is certainly better in a skills competition, but that hockey IQ is a real detriment. Kapanen is another Grabner and I think is what he is: an instant offense guy in your bottom six that doesn't play well with others.

Put another way, the Bruins have a bigger chance to come out ahead in this deal. The Pens have a better chance of coming out way ahead. DeBrusk had a tough time during the pandemic and came back this year behind Marchand and Hall in a known to be shallow Bruins lineup. He belongs in the top 6 for some team, and he will produce again. He isn't 35, he is 25. I liken him to Reilly Smith who was good in Boston and then just started sucking until he was traded, and now is a solid top six winger. He just needs a fresh start, really. I say this with all expectation that the Bruins will end up making a crap deal like they did with Smith in trading DeBrusk and knowing that no one will pay optimistic prices for DeBrusk.

As far as the OP? Meh. Not really sure what problem Kap solves for the Bruins. I'd be more interested in a trade that has worse value for Boston that actually fills a need.

You gotta look at the trends. DeBrusk's best 2 years were his first two years, has trended down ever since then and last year and this year have been flat out disasters for him. Kapanen is still doing well this year and had 30 points in 40 games last year. You can argue upside or whatever but Kapanen has significantly more value at this point in time in my opinion. DeBrusk's value has fallen off a cliff with his last 2 seasons. Sure you can argue upside/change of scenery but teams don't put a lot of stock in that when a guy has been as bad as DeBrusk has been the past 2 years. I agree even aside from the value that's it not really a fit for the Bruins anyways.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

One issue no-one is talking about is that DeBrusk's salary this season is 4.85 mil. Thus to retain his rights, the Pens have to offer a one year deal for 4.85 mil. With the way that Debrusk has been playing I could very easily see him sign the offer sheet. For a guy that is on pace for about 30 points. That is no bueno.

Where as with Kapanen, his base salary this season is 800k. Thus his qualifying offer is 840k.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

We've lost 4 in a row. Heads have to roll, duh.

I'm all for moving Kapanen because he is incredibly inconsistent, but this seems like a lateral move at best and more than likely a downgrade.

It's also BS that Sullivan doesn't like him. Sullivan heaped praise on him this summer to the degree that I have not heard him do for any other player outside of Sid, Geno, Letang. Kapanen is a frustrating player because he'll look like a star for a week and then he disappears for a month. When he's not scoring, he adds nothing to the team, so Sullivan puts him on the 4th line and people get mad. At some point you have to blame Kapanen for getting demoted almost every game when he starts in the top 6.

Ya lol. Not many teams lose 4 in a row and manage to get 3pts out of them!!!

I think value wise, the Pens can do better

 

[DrDangles]

No thanks, Kap will be cheaper to retain and should only be moved in a package for an upgrade.

 

[wintersej]

You gotta look at the trends. DeBrusk's best 2 years were his first two years, has trended down ever since then and last year and this year have been flat out disasters for him. Kapanen is still doing well this year and had 30 points in 40 games last year. You can argue upside or whatever but Kapanen has significantly more value at this point in time in my opinion. DeBrusk's value has fallen off a cliff with his last 2 seasons. Sure you can argue upside/change of scenery but teams don't put a lot of stock in that when a guy has been as bad as DeBrusk has been the past 2 years. I agree even aside from the value that's it not really a fit for the Bruins anyways.

The first three years, not two, were good. And yes, last year and this year have not been good. Frankly, he has PLAYED much better since his trade request, but the results haven't really been there being the best player on the Bruins third line... he is the support scorer not a line driver. I wish we could keep him, tbh, but with Marchand and Hall blocking him, they aren't going to be able to put him in a position to get value off what he will need to be paid, even if he agrees to a multiyear deal at less than his QO.

I guess where we disagree is in how much value Kapanen has. He has only scored more than 13 goals once in his career and doesn't add much beyond that supposed offense.

 

[banks]

DeBrusk DeSucks.

 

[jonlin]

The first three years, not two, were good. And yes, last year and this year have not been good. Frankly, he has PLAYED much better since his trade request, but the results haven't really been there being the best player on the Bruins third line... he is the support scorer not a line driver. I wish we could keep him, tbh, but with Marchand and Hall blocking him, they aren't going to be able to put him in a position to get value off what he will need to be paid, even if he agrees to a multiyear deal at less than his QO.

I guess where we disagree is in how much value Kapanen has. He has only scored more than 13 goals once in his career and doesn't add much beyond that supposed offense.

Youre his brother or sumthing? The guy is much worse than Kapanen and pretty much 99% of Bruins fans would gladely swap them if got the chance.

 

[Mick Jagr]

If I'm Boston I ask for small +

 

[Knies iT]

Kapanen doesn't play in all situations, he doesn't get PK time for the Penguins and has generally only been used in an offensive role. This isn't saying he can't do it, he obviously showed in Toronto that he could, but he just hasn't been used that way for the Penguins.

With that being said, something like DeBrusk and a 3rd for Kapanen seems reasonable to me, but the Bruins wouldn't have to add anything egregious on top of DeBrusk IMO.



Kapanen's isn't bad, the problem is that he's been wildly inconsistent this year and Sullivan seems to have a grudge with him. Look at Kapanen's production this year, he only has points in 17 of 45 games and over half of his points (13) come in 6 games.

He's not really that great of an analytical player, has stretches where he looks like he's not engaged and not doing much and the Penguins are pretty much exclusively using him in an offensive role. I totally understand why he's in Sullivan's dog house, but Sullivan has had a bone to pick with him ever since he arrived in Pittsburgh.

Because Kapanen isn't a very good in-zone offensive player. Most of his chances come off the rush via turnovers in the d-zone. It's what makes him so dangerous when put on a 3rd line with defensive usage.

He has a long track record of not working well with elite players now.

 

[biturbo19]

DeBrusk has those same concerns no? I don't think he's nearly as talented as Kapanen, so with those same concerns I just don't see why Pens would want him. If they were to trade Kapanen which is possible then they could do better I think.

DeBrusk definitely has some similar concerns when it comes to "disappearing" for stretches and that sort of thing. But i think the key difference is in the post quoted below:

Kapanen is generally terrible with elite players. He was pretty bad on either of the top two lines in Toronto as well, just seems to lack the hockey sense to know where to be on the ice and not a very good passer. He is pretty skilled though and the speed is next level so he can be a really nice 3rd line and PK option

This definitely seems to be an issue with Kapanen. He's got a pretty dynamic skillset individually, but he's also one of those guys that doesn't seem to mesh all that smoothly with a lot of other top offensive players. He's more of a "generates his own offense" sort of player, rather than a cog in a smoothly running machine.

Which is where, my initial reaction to this proposal was basically, "lol why would Pittsburgh do this???" But thinking about it in these terms, maybe there is something to the proposal. DeBrusk is a real "Top-9 Tweener" with those same problems as Kapanen when it comes to consistency, but his particular style of game and the strengths of it...actually do lend themselves to being a more "complementary" winger for an "elite" Center. Playing with Crosby or Malkin, or even Carter...i could see DeBrusk thriving.


It's one of those cases where in a vacuum, Kapanen is way more "valuable" and can contribute far more individually. But in the real world, on the ice...i could actually see a scenario where the Penguins with the way they're built around Star Centers, could actually be happier, and get a lot more out of someone like DeBrusk and his more complementary skillset.


I still don't really like the value for Pittsburgh, and Boston would have to be adding something to the deal. But there is a sort of sense in it. Even if i'd value Kapanen far more highly personally, and prefer him by a wide margin if i were building my own team. Team composition and chemistry does matter. And if Kapanen is going to be stuck that deeply in the coach's doghouse...the swap is not actually as completely one-sided as my initial reaction gauged it to be.

 

[biturbo19]

DeBrusk has two seasons better than Kapanen's best. He scored at a 25 pace over his first three seasons. DeBrusk's game has just fallen apart the last two seasons. DeBrusk, I think, has more change of scenery potential and also a lower floor based on his play the last two seasons.

Kapanen is certainly better in a skills competition, but that hockey IQ is a real detriment. Kapanen is another Grabner and I think is what he is: an instant offense guy in your bottom six that doesn't play well with others.

Put another way, the Bruins have a bigger chance to come out ahead in this deal. The Pens have a better chance of coming out way ahead. DeBrusk had a tough time during the pandemic and came back this year behind Marchand and Hall in a known to be shallow Bruins lineup. He belongs in the top 6 for some team, and he will produce again. He isn't 35, he is 25. I liken him to Reilly Smith who was good in Boston and then just started sucking until he was traded, and now is a solid top six winger. He just needs a fresh start, really. I say this with all expectation that the Bruins will end up making a crap deal like they did with Smith in trading DeBrusk and knowing that no one will pay optimistic prices for DeBrusk.

As far as the OP? Meh. Not really sure what problem Kap solves for the Bruins. I'd be more interested in a trade that has worse value for Boston that actually fills a need.

I think this is a pretty great summary of why this proposal maybe isn't as imbalanced as it looks on an initial read.

I still think Boston has to add here, as a contingency on the "risk" Pittsburgh would be assuming. But the reality is, for a Pittsburgh team with Crosby/Malkin/Carter, they could very conceivably come out ahead with a player like DeBrusk who probably returns to ~30G+ form complementing Crosby or Malkin. But his value is also lower in a vacuum, because he is so much more dependent on top quality offensively creative linemates and opportunities to produce.

It's why players like Kapanen are so hard to assess the "value" of. Their skillset is a double-edged sword. It's the same issue people always had with assessing what Brandon Sutter was "worth" in his prime. Basically "kapped" at a certain level of production, no matter what scenario you put them in. You can force feed them top minutes, and it won't make a difference in their box stats. Infuriating to watch with other top skilled players and prime offensive situations. But there's also immense value in a guy who can score 20G from your third line, without any real help from linemates. It's a sort of "low ceiling" but "high floor" type player. They're always some of the toughest players to really assign a "value" to, because so much of what they bring to the table is context-specific.


Whereas DeBrusk is pretty much the opposite. He has a very complementary skillset. But the only way he's scoring and useful, is if he's being fed top offensive minutes with high-end, creative center who can put the puck on him in the right opportunities to finish. Without that, we've seen how useless he can be. The "high ceiling" with a "low floor" type player. But his production in that year he nearly scored 30 isn't a fluke...it shows what he could do with a talented and creative Center. Just tricky to cross-reference the "value" of two completely opposite types of Top-9 Winger.

 

[LuGBuG]

I want Debrusk on Zegras wing