Player Discussion David Quinn

[Kaapo Bustfreniere]

It's a cycle Rangers fans are all too familiar with. I used to enjoy the summer part as a kid. Now I'm too old and cynical to get too hyped up these days with the big free agent signings. Fleury, Holik, Drury, Gomez, Gaborik, Richards, Shattenkirk. Every time the Rangers sign one we hear "it'll be different this time" yet it always leads to the same result--a lot of money spent, a lot of disappointment and eventual regret and no championship but now in the cap era with the added problem of dead cap space due to the inevitable buyouts.

I'll get excited when one of them lifts the Cup in a Rangers jersey.



So it was your fault!

Actually, Panarin has been looking pretty good so far. But let's not jinx it I suppose.

 

[Kaapo Bustfreniere]

1) You don't compare an NHL player in performance? K Lol
And what does that have to do with the price of beans in Mexico?

2) Durr x2 lol

3) The point is that cap problems shouldn't be an issue being that this is the youngest team in the league.
We shouldn't even be having this conversation if JG knew what he was doing in the first place, strawman.

4) you live in a world of fantasy where temporary/ fill'ins lead the way.

Rebuilding teams that aren't responsible enough to have cap space in order to even obtain/ RETAIN a #2C are starting things off behind the 8- ball let alone all the other holes that need to be filled in this line up.

2 steps forward, 3 behind but you keep turning a blind eye if that's what works for you..

You haven't given me one ounce of note-worthy info to make me want to put any effort into debating this with substance so I'm done talking about this since this should probably be in the JG thread at this point anyway..

The fact you have not been hired as at least a chief consultant to JG is a terrible blow to the entire organisation. How will we ever recover from the fact that the only person who knows how things should be done happens to be a random dude hiding behind an Al Bundy avatar on the internet.

Seriously... how are you not employed in the NHL yet if you are sou knowledgeable...ú

The amount of hot takes in this thread is astounding.

 

[NYR]

The fact you have not been hired as at least a chief consultant to JG is a terrible blow to the entire organisation. How will we ever recover from the fact that the only person who knows how things should be done happens to be a random dude hiding behind an Al Bundy avatar on the internet.

Seriously... how are you not employed in the NHL yet if you are sou knowledgeable...ú

The amount of hot takes in this thread is astounding.

The only thing I need to recover from is a really bad hangover.
I was drunk af when I posted that

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

People bashing Quinn for Ansdersons usage should realize he hasnt been that good, he really hasnt earned anything. Without pointing at his linemates tell me an area he has been good at. I mean positionally he has been lacking, he hasnt put up any offense, hasnt really carried that line at all like he should and I'd argue that Quinn is giving him two vets to play with because he feels he isnt ready for more responsibility because he hasnt been better than mediocre. I'm no fan of Mckegg but he was actually better in that same role imo. Personally I feel he will be better at some point but that point isnt going to happen without some lessons on the way.

Andersonn was doing good to start the year and preseason, but yet, Quinn just buried him.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Pionk, Shattenkirk, Namestnikov all looking like good solid NHLers on different teams.

 

[True Blue]

1) You don't compare an NHL player in performance? K Lol
And what does that have to do with the price of beans in Mexico?

An example of how a player finds his legs not at 23 but at 25 has nothing to do with performance. A bit of reading comprehension helps.

2) Durr x2 lol

Directly refusing to answer direct questions posed by several posters now looks to be a bit of a case of "refuse to answer questionitis". Which is usually brought on by having a lack of knowledge regarding the topic or by not having at all a good answer when asked to back your beliefs.

3) The point is that cap problems shouldn't be an issue being that this is the youngest team in the league.
We shouldn't even be having this conversation if JG knew what he was doing in the first place, strawman.

Were I you, I would actually look up the definition of a strawman argument. Everyone has access to the Internet, you know.

Now Gorton has no idea of what he is doing either. Tell me, is your phone burning up with requests to be an NHL executive?

4) you live in a world of fantasy where temporary/ fill'ins lead the way.

Presuming that you are talking about Strome here. And also presuming that you have absolutely nothing substantive to support your assertion.

Rebuilding teams that aren't responsible enough to have cap space in order to even obtain/ RETAIN a #2C are starting things off behind the 8- ball let alone all the other holes that need to be filled in this line up.

Name your solution? Resign Hayes? You understand that not only does that mean that there is no room for Chytil to play center but also that there is no Trouba at a bargain basement trade price? Or do you have something else in mind? If so, please list it.
[/QUOTE]You haven't given me one ounce of note-worthy info to make me want to put any effort into debating this with substance so I'm done talking about this [/QUOTE]
Your phone is ringing. It's the pot calling.

 

[True Blue]

Pionk, Shattenkirk, Namestnikov all looking like good solid NHLers on different teams.

And? Who ever said that they were useless NHLers? Or would you prefer that they were still here?

Fox, DeAngelo, Lingren, Kakko, Chytil also look like solid NHLers.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

And? Who ever said that they were useless NHLers? Or would you prefer that they were still here?

Fox, DeAngelo, Lingren, Kakko, Chytil also look like solid NHLers.

Well most people on here did not think Pionk was an NHler in fact I can find some posts here calling him the worst defenseman in the NHL last year. People saying Namestnikov has no offense I’ve ability and was a product of Kucherov and Stamkos. Now he’s playing with guys like Tyler Ennis and whoever off the street and putting up numbers. Coaching matters, and right now Namestnikov is getting coached by a rookie head coach who took our sophomore head coach to coaching school last time we played them.

 

[True Blue]

Coaching matters, and right now Namestnikov is getting coached by a rookie head coach who took our sophomore head coach to coaching school last time we played them.

Coaching does matter and Nametsnikov looked just fine last year.

One loss does not resound in being "taken to school". Was said rookie head coach taken to school the first time out?

 

[haveandare]

Well most people on here did not think Pionk was an NHler in fact I can find some posts here calling him the worst defenseman in the NHL last year. People saying Namestnikov has no offense I’ve ability and was a product of Kucherov and Stamkos. Now he’s playing with guys like Tyler Ennis and whoever off the street and putting up numbers. Coaching matters, and right now Namestnikov is getting coached by a rookie head coach who took our sophomore head coach to coaching school last time we played them.

Not necessarily saying this is an incorrect take, but there are things that should be considered when talking about this sort of thing.

First of all, Ranger fans are generally harder on Ranger players than other teams' players. The reason is pretty obvious. When a Rangers d-man makes a mistake for example, it's bad for a Rangers fan. When another team's player makes a mistake, it's good for us. Look at the way this forum beats up on any number of our own players at any given time. Maybe Pionk played in a way where, to NYR fans, he's "the worst d-man in the league" but if he were on another team he'd just be another of many below average d-men being asked to do too much. In one situation his play is meaningful to us, in the other it's not.

Namestnikov is scoring more despite still not playing with a ton of talent. But is he playing more minutes? Being put in more offensive situations? It's been 10 or so games, is he riding an unsustainable shooting percentage? Is it reasonable to expect this production to continue over a whole season?

It seems like you're really oversimplifying this. People said these guys were bad here, now people say they're not as bad on other teams. The coaches are different, must be the coaches making the difference. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. An argument can be made depending on what the data says and can be validated or not over more time.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Not necessarily saying this is an incorrect take, but there are things that should be considered when talking about this sort of thing.

First of all, Ranger fans are generally harder on Ranger players than other teams' players. The reason is pretty obvious. When a Rangers d-man makes a mistake for example, it's bad for a Rangers fan. When another team's player makes a mistake, it's good for us. Look at the way this forum beats up on any number of our own players at any given time. Maybe Pionk played in a way where, to NYR fans, he's "the worst d-man in the league" but if he were on another team he'd just be another of many below average d-men being asked to do too much. In one situation his play is meaningful to us, in the other it's not.

Namestnikov is scoring more despite still not playing with a ton of talent. But is he playing more minutes? Being put in more offensive situations? It's been 10 or so games, is he riding an unsustainable shooting percentage? Is it reasonable to expect this production to continue over a whole season?

It seems like you're really oversimplifying this. People said these guys were bad here, now people say they're not as bad on other teams. The coaches are different, must be the coaches making the difference. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. An argument can be made depending on what the data says and can be validated or not over more time.

I just don't see one thing that Quinn (and his staff) do well. Its certainly not defense, and its not offense either. Its not the Powerplay, its not the Penalty kill. Its not the transition game, the neutral zone, or cycling in the offensive zone. And people want to say "oh maybe its the players they just suck what is he supposed to do with guys like Pionk and Namestnikov and Shattenkirk they're just not good" and then they get out of his "system" and they find their game.

I don't like this coach, I don't think he's good enough at all for the NHL level. People around here are in a forgiving mood because we've won 2 in a row but we got flat out DOMINATED against Carolina, embarrassingly so and if we had merely league average goalies we would have run out of the building. And its been happening constantly, giving up 20 shots in the 1st period, not generating much of our own, relying on individual efforts to get any offense, etc. Its not sustainable and we saw what happens when a goalie doesn't bring his A+ game with Georgie against Ottawa.

 

[haveandare]

I just don't see one thing that Quinn (and his staff) do well. Its certainly not defense, and its not offense either. Its not the Powerplay, its not the Penalty kill. Its not the transition game, the neutral zone, or cycling in the offensive zone. And people want to say "oh maybe its the players they just suck what is he supposed to do with guys like Pionk and Namestnikov and Shattenkirk they're just not good" and then they get out of his "system" and they find their game.

I don't like this coach, I don't think he's good enough at all for the NHL level. People around here are in a forgiving mood because we've won 2 in a row but we got flat out DOMINATED against Carolina, embarrassingly so and if we had merely league average goalies we would have run out of the building. And its been happening constantly, giving up 20 shots in the 1st period, not generating much of our own, relying on individual efforts to get any offense, etc. Its not sustainable and we saw what happens when a goalie doesn't bring his A+ game with Georgie against Ottawa.

Seems like it’s his fault when bad things happen and someone else’s credit when good things happen. Im automatically suspicious of that type of argument. It’s a big red flag for confirmation bias being at work.

This team beat a handful of top teams recently. Then they got dominated in shots by a team that is very good at generating shots while they were on their second night of backs to backs and ended up winning anyway.

 

[Anzi]

Seems like it’s his fault when bad things happen and someone else’s credit when good things happen. Im automatically suspicious of that type of argument. It’s a big red flag for confirmation bias being at work.

This team beat a handful of top teams recently. Then they got dominated in shots by a team that is very good at generating shots while they were on their second night of backs to backs and ended up winning anyway.

How much of our recent success is from us actually playing well as a group and how much is it just really good goaltending combined with some good puck luck? Our goalies have basically a 97% save percentage in our past 4 wins. Many of the goals we've scored have been on the power play or empty net goals. The way we've been playing lately is not sustainable for long term success. Though to be fair, we're missing Mika.

 

[haveandare]

How much of our recent success is from us actually playing well as a group and how much is it just really good goaltending combined with some good puck luck? Our goalies have basically a 97% save percentage in our past 4 wins. Many of the goals we've scored have been on the power play or empty net goals. The way we've been playing lately is not sustainable for long term success. Though to be fair, we're missing Mika.

I’d say it’s a good bit of both. Lots of the goals they’ve scored have been due to slick passing rather than being “puck luck” goals. Having said that, yeah they’ve had good goaltending and some luck. Most teams that win do.

And no this run isn’t sustainable, anyone who thought this team would be sustainably beating top teams was being unrealistic. But that’s not because of coaching primarily. They’re the youngest team in the league and have a lot of question marks up and down the lineup. Pinning those problems primarily on coaching, to me, looks like starting from the premise that the coaching is bad and trying to work backward to justify it. I don’t think he’s some genius but a lot of guys have improved a lot under him so far and the team has had some really nice wins recently.

 

[Anzi]

I’d say it’s a good bit of both. Lots of the goals they’ve scored have been due to slick passing rather than being “puck luck” goals. Having said that, yeah they’ve had good goaltending and some luck. Most teams that win do.

And no this run isn’t sustainable, anyone who thought this team would be sustainably beating top teams was being unrealistic. But that’s not because of coaching primarily. They’re the youngest team in the league and have a lot of question marks up and down the lineup. Pinning those problems primarily on coaching, to me, looks like starting from the premise that the coaching is bad and trying to work backward to justify it. I don’t think he’s some genius but a lot of guys have improved a lot under him so far and the team has had some really nice wins recently.

I think the reason that people point to the coaching as an issue is that by several metrics, we're the worst team at even strength in the league. We grade out as one of the worst teams in the past few decades. Of course, we're not actually as bad as these metrics would suggest but a lot of it is from having one of the highest power play success rates in the league as well as goaltending that exceeds expectations. We have a lot of youth so its understandable for us to not be good but you also wouldn't expect the team to be historically bad especially after adding Panarin and Trouba.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Could not agree more. What’s incredible is how so many just blindly love the idea of a rebuild but are so wrong about how rebuilds work. Let’s play it out using a different team. Toronto for example had several top picks in a row, have a legitimate top 10 talent in the league, have a much better core of forwards and took a similar path to be terrible for years but made the right choice and hired Mike Babcock as coach. What’s happening right now? The team has incredible talent but Babcock continually says they have no idea how to win and can’t take the next step... hmmmmmm so EVEN IF the Rangers could develop the talent the Leafs have and get the top 10 talent and hire the right coach, the missing piece will be THE WINNING CULTURE!!! And it’s even a long shot the Rangers will even rebuild as well as Toronto has.

There is nothing to suggest that this is correct. The D in Toronto has major issues and so does their bottom 6. The G ain't exactly a world beater either. What exactly makes Babcock the right coach anyway?

How did you miss so many enormously important and obvious details? It just looks like you ignored a ton of info that wasn't convenient to your conclusion so that you can blame some arbitrary, impossible to prove factor for the Rangers possibly not winning in the future. It's a dead end point and a particularly weak one at that.
I think the way you think about the sport has fundamental deficits that you really should try to correct. idk why you even present your thoughts bc if I had to rate the way this place responds to your opinions I'd vote for overwhelmingly negative. Can't be fun for you.

 

[True Blue]

I don't like this coach, I don't think he's good enough at all for the NHL level. People around here are in a forgiving mood because we've won 2 in a row but we got flat out DOMINATED against Carolina, embarrassingly so and if we had merely league average goalies we would have run out of the building. And its been happening constantly, giving up 20 shots in the 1st period, not generating much of our own, relying on individual efforts to get any offense, etc. Its not sustainable and we saw what happens when a goalie doesn't bring his A+ game with Georgie against Ottawa.

They got dominated by Carolina, Boston and had an awful game against Ottawa. Where is the constantly?

Also, that is what happens when you ice such a young team. It is called uneven play. They need to LEARN consistency. No different than any other such team.

 

[True Blue]

We have a lot of youth so its understandable for us to not be good but you also wouldn't expect the team to be historically bad especially after adding Panarin and Trouba.

Yes, that is exactly what was expected even after Panarin & Trouba. This was exactly what we debated this summer. This team is still a lottery team this year.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Why do so many people deny it’s not odd that Lias has been given a longer leash? Haha I honestly don’t get why it’s hard to accept. No one is handing him a letter or penciling him and giving him a raise. The team is rebuilding though and after spending his first two years being an obedient loyal dog, he then comes into TC and plays really well. He stood out amongst the young guys. He got rewarded with 4th line duties and carrying Smith and Haley.

It’s just odd he hasn’t been given 10-20 games like other guys have gotten. Even more odd fans that deny it or get triggered that others notice it.

I suspect he has several holes in his game and they're giving him low minutes on the 4th line while he irons stuff out which is EXACTLY what they did with Chytil last year. We know Lias has poor skating ability and low offensive ability. Sounds like a young prospect like that should be in the bottom 6. Makes tons of sense.

I honestly just don't have the pateince to sit and watch games as much anymore so I haven't seen enough of Lias to judge as well as I'd like to. I know three things:

This is what I saw with our prospects last year and it worked
Lias' abilities peg him as a bottom 6 guy atm
When I asked this place what it is about Lias' game that works so well a bunch of people lost their shit at me bc they realized they had no answer.

I think their egos were too big to allow them to acknowledge that they didn't actually know what made Lias worthy of more minutes. They just decided he did and nothing would make them consider that maybe juuuust maybe it's not necessary at the moment. A few of them also realized they didn't actually have anything based on the actual on ice product to base their opinion on. Which is really telling

 

[NYR]

An example of how a player finds his legs not at 23 but at 25 has nothing to do with performance. A bit of reading comprehension helps.

Directly refusing to answer direct questions posed by several posters now looks to be a bit of a case of "refuse to answer questionitis". Which is usually brought on by having a lack of knowledge regarding the topic or by not having at all a good answer when asked to back your beliefs.

Were I you, I would actually look up the definition of a strawman argument. Everyone has access to the Internet, you know.

Now Gorton has no idea of what he is doing either. Tell me, is your phone burning up with requests to be an NHL executive?

Presuming that you are talking about Strome here. And also presuming that you have absolutely nothing substantive to support your assertion.

Name your solution? Resign Hayes? You understand that not only does that mean that there is no room for Chytil to play center but also that there is no Trouba at a bargain basement trade price? Or do you have something else in mind? If so, please list it.

You haven't given me one ounce of note-worthy info to make me want to put any effort into debating this with substance so I'm done talking about this [/QUOTE]
Your phone is ringing. It's the pot calling.[/QUOTE]

Umm..Still nothing noteworthy?
OK, just checking..For a friend lol

 

[NYR]

There is nothing to suggest that this is correct. The D in Toronto has major issues and so does their bottom 6. The G ain't exactly a world beater either. What exactly makes Babcock the right coach anyway?

How did you miss so many enormously important and obvious details? It just looks like you ignored a ton of info that wasn't convenient to your conclusion so that you can blame some arbitrary, impossible to prove factor for the Rangers possibly not winning in the future. It's a dead end point and a particularly weak one at that.
I think the way you think about the sport has fundamental deficits that you really should try to correct. idk why you even present your thoughts bc if I had to rate the way this place responds to your opinions I'd vote for overwhelmingly negative. Can't be fun for you.

Some people are just extra special ^^^

 

[NYR]

DQ has no business in the NHL.
PROVE ME WRONG..

 

[Machinehead]

 

[NYR]

The fact you have not been hired as at least a chief consultant to JG is a terrible blow to the entire organisation. How will we ever recover from the fact that the only person who knows how things should be done happens to be a random dude hiding behind an Al Bundy avatar on the internet.

Seriously... how are you not employed in the NHL yet if you are sou knowledgeable...ú

The amount of hot takes in this thread is astounding.

And yet.. Your opinion counts.
Got it

 

[NYR]

You know you're itching to get in here, Guy