Player Discussion David Quinn

[Tawnos]

I wish I could tell you but Ruff has a horrible track record of coaching defensive teams and I'm starting to wonder if it's a coincidence that seemingly every player gets better defensively when they leave the Rangers.

His Sabres teams were pretty good defensively.

Edit: You know what? That's a misperception on my part. Post-Hasek, his teams were always middle of the pack in GA. Some years, they were more towards the top-10, some years more towards the bottom-10. But never among the best in the league, which is where they were with Ruff when he had Hasek. So those teams weren't "horrible"... but not what I thought.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

His Sabres teams were pretty good defensively.

Hasek maybe had something to do with it?

 

[Tawnos]

Hasek maybe had something to do with it?

See my edit.

 

[True Blue]

Problem with Quinn is that while he is a rookie NHL coach, he is not young by any means and that creates the conflict. He and others know that he is running out of time to prove that he is a good NHL coach, and I bet he wants to prove he is better than just good. And this creates lack of patience with rookies and desperate rolling 3 lines and overplaying top line. His combination of age and unproven NHL record is why he was a wrong coach choice for a rebuilding team that was supposed to suck while developing young players. He would have been a good choice for a young team that already had established young players sort of like Edmonton. But really he should have paid more dues as either AHL head coach or as a NHL assistant coach.

Your mom called. She says it is time to come home and stop polluting internet space.

 

[Raspewtin]

His Sabres teams were pretty good defensively.

Edit: You know what? That's a misperception on my part. Post-Hasek, his teams were always middle of the pack in GA. Some years, they were more towards the top-10, some years more towards the bottom-10. But never among the best in the league, which is where they were with Ruff when he had Hasek. So those teams weren't "horrible"... but not what I thought.

I identify those good versions of the Sabres as very high flying offensively and meh defensively. Ryan Miller was a good goalie and borderline vezina caliber and it still kept them middle of the pack. I always associate Ruff as an offense coach with poor structure.

 

[Tawnos]

I identify those good versions of the Sabres as very high flying offensively and meh defensively. Ryan Miller was a good goalie and borderline vezina caliber and it still kept them middle of the pack. I always associate Ruff as an offense coach with poor structure.

Tale of two eras in one coach. Because, while Hasek was responsible for their GA being so low, those late 90s, early 00s Sabres teams were highly structured and not very good offensively.

Which is a thing... sometimes the team dictates what the coach does. Those first Sabres teams didn't have a lot talent to begin with. Even with Hasek, they couldn't be as successful as they were without a highly structured system. IIRC, they were a heavy trapping team. Post-lockout, the offense was a lot better and the D corps of the post-lockout teams wasn't much more than mediocre.

You saw Torterella make a reverse adjustment when he got to the Rangers, after coaching Tampa to be high-flying risky hockey ("safe is death")... after a year, he went all the way in the other direction to the 6-goalie system, because that team didn't have enough talent to take all of those chances.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I identify those good versions of the Sabres as very high flying offensively and meh defensively. Ryan Miller was a good goalie and borderline vezina caliber and it still kept them middle of the pack. I always associate Ruff as an offense coach with poor structure.

But with Sabres he was a head coach, I think James Patrick handled defense.

 

[Tawnos]

But with Sabres he was a head coach, I think James Patrick handled defense.

Which brings us right back to the initial question. What exactly is "handling the defense"?

The assistant coach doesn't design the defensive zone structure. That's the job of the head coach, who might consult the assistant, but ultimately it's not the assistant. He doesn't decide who is in the lineup. I'd imagine this changes, but I've seen Quinn tapping D on the shoulder to send them out for their shift, so it's not Ruff deciding how much ice time players get...

 

[JHS]

If he is a fantastic coach, then why would you argue for other coaches? You argue for Trotz, but a) he was not coming here b) he has not dealt with such young kids. So you have no idea how a team that has this many sub 22 year olds would respond as opposed to a coach whose career up to now has been coaching such kids.


There was absolutely no rush to hire Quinn. There was nothing besides a well-calculated decision. Gorton chose not to give one penny to Trotz and give all the pennies to Quinn.

Gorton gambled that short, near and long term that Quinn was his man.

Listen we can go back and forth on this forever but the truth is, Quinn has a limited ceiling when it comes to developing these guys. He will not be able to get them to a playoff bound team consistently. He’s been a college coach— great, nothing wrong with that— but stop prentendig the guy is consistently at the same level as proven cup winners.

When I say he’s a fantastic coach, I agree that he is the type of guy I’d like to see as a coach( holds players accountable) but why can’t you see that he has limited perspective on what “developing” players looks like. David Quinn has never been anywhere in the NHL and had limited success as a college coach.

Your analysis of Trotz is way off. He lead the Nashville Predators, and expansion team!!!!! He dealt with young guys all the time and did it well! You also have no idea if Trotz would have come here because the Rangers rushed to hire Quinn so he could be included in the draft day preparations— which still literally makes 0 sense because what on earth was he going to offer. They hired Quinn in May, before the season was even over! No team should do that and most don’t, because some coaches who lead a team to the cup have assistants leave and some of those guys are highly sought after candidates. The Rangers has this absurd idea that they needed to get their coach so he could be involved with the draft prep and settled on Quinn. It was a HUGE blunder because I have no doubt this team would be so much better, and in so much better hands had they waited and found a way to get Trotz.

The proof is in the cards. As hard as it is to say, the Islanders keep finding ways to win games with a very similarly constructed team( one major line whose forward core is filled with a bunch of developing players and a suspect defensive core with worse goaltending) and the Rangers are terribly inconsistent.

 

[True Blue]

Listen we can go back and forth on this forever but the truth is, Quinn has a limited ceiling when it comes to developing these guys.

How so? What limits him? What are you pointing to back your claim?

He will not be able to get them to a playoff bound team consistently. He’s been a college coach— great, nothing wrong with that— but stop prentendig the guy is consistently at the same level as proven cup winners. .

Who is pretending that he has won a Cup? Or comparing him to Cup winning coaches? Did I miss that?

Also, didn't you state that he was a fantastic coach?

And while we are at it, what is going to prevent him from getting teams into the playoffs?

When I say he’s a fantastic coach, I agree that he is the type of guy I’d like to see as a coach( holds players accountable) but why can’t you see that he has limited perspective on what “developing” players looks like. David Quinn has never been anywhere in the NHL and had limited success as a college coach.

Fantastic = accountability. Got it.

Why can't I see that your point is that he has a limited perspective on what "developing" looks like? Maybe it is because I completely disagree with the assertion.

No first time NHL coach has had success at the NHL level. That is not just Quinn. That is first time NHL coaches. Not sure of what your point is.

Your analysis of Trotz is way off. He lead the Nashville Predators, and expansion team!!!!!

Was that team the youngest in the league and did it ice 7 players under 21 years of age?

You also have no idea if Trotz would have come here because the Rangers rushed to hire Quinn so he could be included in the draft day preparations— which still literally makes 0 sense because what on earth was he going to offer.

There was no rush. They were never bringing Tortz in. Gorton identified Quinn as the man for the job and one that shares his vision. Not sure where the rush is.

They hired Quinn in May, before the season was even over! No team should do that and most don’t, because some coaches who lead a team to the cup have assistants leave and some of those guys are highly sought after candidates.

Why? Because you say so? Call up Gorton and tell him what kind of an idiot he is that he hired the person who he wanted and thought was the best choice ahead of all of the other choices that you believe would be better. My guess is that it would be a very short conversation.

The Rangers has this absurd idea that they needed to get their coach so he could be involved with the draft prep and settled on Quinn. It was a HUGE blunder because I have no doubt this team would be so much better, and in so much better hands had they waited and found a way to get Trotz.

Yeah. Sorry, going with Gorton here. Will put my trust in what he did ahead of armchair internet GMs.

The proof is in the cards. As hard as it is to say, the Islanders keep finding ways to win games with a very similarly constructed team( one major line whose forward core is filled with a bunch of developing players and a suspect defensive core with worse goaltending) and the Rangers are terribly inconsistent.

Wait, you actually believe that with this roster, Tortz would have had a better record? The Islanders are not similarly constructed. Not unless you name the 7 under 21 year olds that they dressed for their last game.

Pray tell, what would have Tortz done differently?

 

[JHS]

How so? What limits him? What are you pointing to back your claim?

Who is pretending that he has won a Cup? Or comparing him to Cup winning coaches? Did I miss that?

Also, didn't you state that he was a fantastic coach?

And while we are at it, what is going to prevent him from getting teams into the playoffs?

Fantastic = accountability. Got it.

Why can't I see that your point is that he has a limited perspective on what "developing" looks like? Maybe it is because I completely disagree with the assertion.

No first time NHL coach has had success at the NHL level. That is not just Quinn. That is first time NHL coaches. Not sure of what your point is.

Was that team the youngest in the league and did it ice 7 players under 21 years of age?

There was no rush. They were never bringing Tortz in. Gorton identified Quinn as the man for the job and one that shares his vision. Not sure where the rush is.

Why? Because you say so? Call up Gorton and tell him what kind of an idiot he is that he hired the person who he wanted and thought was the best choice ahead of all of the other choices that you believe would be better. My guess is that it would be a very short conversation.

Yeah. Sorry, going with Gorton here. Will put my trust in what he did ahead of armchair internet GMs.

Wait, you actually believe that with this roster, Tortz would have had a better record? The Islanders are not similarly constructed. Not unless you name the 7 under 21 year olds that they dressed for their last game.

Pray tell, what would have Tortz done differently?

Gorton hired Quinn because he knew he would be a yes man and just be happy to be given his big break in the NHL. It's honestly as simple as that. If he wanted to hire the best available coach he should have waited until after the Stanley Cup playoffs ended. Your loyalty to a brain trust that dismantled a team only to hope to put it back together again to maybe get back to the days of another cup run is commendable but equally hard to understand. I have 0 faith in this brain trust because why would I??? They have done NOTHING to earn it and it's shocking how many people are willing to just support people that have not earned a lick of it.

Only here could someone get criticized for advocating an idea so simple as " Hire the best available person for the job."

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Not getting a great coach like Trotz is a typical Rangers mistake. They always mess up when it comes to coaching. That is why we still have not won any Cup since '94 and came close only once. Not only are Islanders finding ways to win with lack of stars on the team, but they are also one of the most physical teams.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Gorton hired Quinn because he knew he would be a yes man and just be happy to be given his big break in the NHL. It's honestly as simple as that. If he wanted to hire the best available coach he should have waited until after the Stanley Cup playoffs ended. Your loyalty to a brain trust that dismantled a team only to hope to put it back together again to maybe get back to the days of another cup run is commendable but equally hard to understand. I have 0 faith in this brain trust because why would I??? They have done NOTHING to earn it and it's shocking how many people are willing to just support people that have not earned a lick of it.

Only here could someone get criticized for advocating an idea so simple as " Hire the best available person for the job."

Quinn was literately at his dream job and said no to the Rangers twice

 

[True Blue]

Not getting a great coach like Trotz is a typical Rangers mistake. They always mess up when it comes to coaching. That is why we still have not won any Cup since '94 and came close only once. Not only are Islanders finding ways to win with lack of stars on the team, but they are also one of the most physical teams.

You really need to be posting in a very special place.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Not getting a great coach like Trotz is a typical Rangers mistake. They always mess up when it comes to coaching. That is why we still have not won any Cup since '94 and came close only once. Not only are Islanders finding ways to win with lack of stars on the team, but they are also one of the most physical teams.

*yawn*

 

[True Blue]

Gorton hired Quinn because he knew he would be a yes man and just be happy to be given his big break in the NHL. It's honestly as simple as that. .

Only here could someone get criticized for advocating an idea so simple as " Hire the best available person for the job."

Jeez.....wow. "Hot take"? What is hotter than hot? Oh, wait. Someone said it. Nuclear.

If he wanted to hire the best available coach he should have waited until after the Stanley Cup playoffs ended

You need to make two phone calls. 1) to Gorton to demand from him an explanation of why he hired the coach that he wanted as quickly as possible. and 2) to JD to scream at him at how dare his incompetent GM makes choices that go counter to an internet armchair GM.

That would probably do it.

Your loyalty to a brain trust that dismantled a team only to hope to put it back together again to maybe get back to the days of another cup run is commendable but equally hard to understand. I have 0 faith in this brain trust because why would I??? They have done NOTHING to earn it and it's shocking how many people are willing to just support people that have not earned a lick of it.

My loyalty? The old team needed to be dismantled. Or do you disagree? I happen completely agree with what they did and how they did it. In fact my only complaint is that I would have done it the year before. Not only that, by and large, I agree with what they have done and how they have gone about it. As such, yeah, we are never going to agree.

What is shocking? That people see the long term picture and disagree with your views and takes? That is because they see the picture completely differently than you do. That is not shocking at all.

Basically it looks like to win your trust, they need to win a Cup. Or be an immediate contender. Sorry, that is just not realistic and it is not the fault of management that you have constructed scenarios which are just not that realistic. And now, because your visions are not coming to fruition it is time to find scapegoats as opposed to examining your own expectations. Or so it seems like to me.

Only here could someone get criticized for advocating an idea so simple as " Hire the best available person for the job."

That is exactly what Gorton set out to do and believes that he did. It seems line you believe that your views are more enlightened than his. Guess time will tell.

 

[BKGooner]

Let's say the Rangers don't win a Cup during Quinn's tenure, but Chytil, Kakko Fox an Miller become NHL regulars well on the way to reaching the level we imagine for them as fans. Failure as Head Coach? I would say no. He is here to develop the kids, let him do his job. MY guess is that when the next window opens for the Rangers a new coach with playoff winning experience will be brought in if Quinn shows he is not up to that task. A Trotz or Quennville is not who you want behind the bench for this team at this stage of development.

 

[Edge]

Let's say the Rangers don't win a Cup during Quinn's tenure, but Chytil, Kakko Fox an Miller become NHL regulars well on the way to reaching the level we imagine for them as fans. Failure as Head Coach? I would say no. He is here to develop the kids, let him do his job. MY guess is that when the next window opens for the Rangers a new coach with playoff winning experience will be brought in if Quinn shows he is not up to that task. A Trotz or Quennville is not who you want behind the bench for this team at this stage of development.

I'd be very surprised, even if things go well, if Quinn is the guy who brings home a Cup.

History, and to a lesser extent my gut, tells me it is more likely to be the coach who comes in after Quinn.

 

[LORDE]

I'd be very surprised, even if things go well, if Quinn is the guy who brings home a Cup.

History, and to a lesser extent my gut, tells me it is more likely to be the coach who comes in after Quinn.

Which is fine.

I think Quinn was brought here to develop talent yes, but ALSO to change the AV culture and and leadership. That takes time. Of course shipping of McD started (or continued) that, but he also has been running practices and meetings and been MUCH more hands on. Yes you need that with a bunch of kids, but there were/are still a lot of vets in that room that would find that a significant change.

 

[JHS]

Jeez.....wow. "Hot take"? What is hotter than hot? Oh, wait. Someone said it. Nuclear.

You need to make two phone calls. 1) to Gorton to demand from him an explanation of why he hired the coach that he wanted as quickly as possible. and 2) to JD to scream at him at how dare his incompetent GM makes choices that go counter to an internet armchair GM.

That would probably do it.

My loyalty? The old team needed to be dismantled. Or do you disagree? I happen completely agree with what they did and how they did it. In fact my only complaint is that I would have done it the year before. Not only that, by and large, I agree with what they have done and how they have gone about it. As such, yeah, we are never going to agree.

What is shocking? That people see the long term picture and disagree with your views and takes? That is because they see the picture completely differently than you do. That is not shocking at all.

Basically it looks like to win your trust, they need to win a Cup. Or be an immediate contender. Sorry, that is just not realistic and it is not the fault of management that you have constructed scenarios which are just not that realistic. And now, because your visions are not coming to fruition it is time to find scapegoats as opposed to examining your own expectations. Or so it seems like to me.

That is exactly what Gorton set out to do and believes that he did. It seems line you believe that your views are more enlightened than his. Guess time will tell.

Ok I'm ready to move on. You've stopped showing any respect to anyone who disagrees with you( not in your reply to me but in some of your replies above.)

Here's the point, the Rangers hired a college coach to develop young players. That makes sense on the surface and it seems like that's all you focus on- cool that's a logical argument. I'm looking deeper than that. The organization hired a guy simply because he could relate to young players, not because he could realistically instill a winning system or structure. To me, I don't care if he can relate to the players, make them feel welcomed, take them out to breakfast or whatever, because it's not about that. It's about winning hockey games and bringing a culture to the young group that is here. Quinn could be there friend and all and they can relate to him( which I'm not even sure they are) but the guy simply does not have the credentials to be instilling a winning environment since he has never even been a part of one at the NHL level. 5 years from now when this group is not "young" anymore, we all will want results and if they have not been set up with a winning culture and structure then the results won't be there. An experienced Stanley Cup winning coach could have done that and related to the players but the organization went for 50% of the equation for building a team rather than 100%. That does not work for me!

 

[True Blue]

Ok I'm ready to move on. You've stopped showing any respect to anyone who disagrees with you( not in your reply to me but in some of your replies above.)

Actually, not true at all. I respoect most people here whether they agree with me or not. The sole people that are probably falling out of that category UsuallyWriteLikeThis orsomethinglikethat.

The organization hired a guy simply because he could relate to young players, not because he could realistically instill a winning system or structure.

Again, this is a viewpoint that is not supported by anything. You claimed that Gorton hired him because he wanted a "yes man".

To me, I don't care if he can relate to the players, make them feel welcomed, take them out to breakfast or whatever, because it's not about that. It's about winning hockey games and bringing a culture to the young group that is here.

And the culture is being redone. You just happen to disagree. And if you are waiting to see them win much more than they will loose, sorry but you are going to be waiting a while.

Quinn could be there friend and all and they can relate to him( which I'm not even sure they are) but the guy simply does not have the credentials to be instilling a winning environment since he has never even been a part of one at the NHL level.

You do know that he played at the NHL level, right? And frankly who cares? What first time NHL coach will have experienced coaching NHL winning teams? By that logic, one can never be first time NHL coach. Maybe we should see if Bryan Trottier can make a return appearance?

5 years from now when this group is not "young" anymore, we all will want results and if they have not been set up with a winning culture and structure then the results won't be there.

Ok, I'll bite. How can you possibly predict that? Me claiming that in 5 years they will have already won several Cups holds just as much validity.

An experienced Stanley Cup winning coach could have done that and related to the players but the organization went for 50% of the equation for building a team rather than 100%. That does not work for me!

A) What Stanley Cup winning coach was taking this job?
B) What Stanley Cup winning coach has experience coaching a team that is in the early stages of a rebuild?
C) What Stanley Cup winning coach has experience coaching such a young team? Not just young, but 7 players that are 21 or younger. The Rangers iced a team last night that had 36.8 % of the team 21 or under. And when you dig further and see how many other 22 & 23 year olds there were that number looks even more ridiculous. Like I said, no matter who you had here with THIS roster was not getting any different results. Not Scotty Bowman. Not Toe Blake. Not Mike Babcock.

 

[eco's bones]

Gorton hired Quinn because he knew he would be a yes man and just be happy to be given his big break in the NHL. It's honestly as simple as that. If he wanted to hire the best available coach he should have waited until after the Stanley Cup playoffs ended. Your loyalty to a brain trust that dismantled a team only to hope to put it back together again to maybe get back to the days of another cup run is commendable but equally hard to understand. I have 0 faith in this brain trust because why would I??? They have done NOTHING to earn it and it's shocking how many people are willing to just support people that have not earned a lick of it.

Only here could someone get criticized for advocating an idea so simple as " Hire the best available person for the job."

'Gorton hired Quinn because he knew he'd be a yes man'--? Since when has Gorton ever involved himself in the day to day, game to game of coaching? He's let his coaches run their own show and pick their own assistants. I also wouldn't assume that just because someone might become available he'll want to coach our team or coach our team right after it was gutted of veteran players. It's not just Trotz.....it's Quenneville too. A coach isn't a magic man and success depends a lot on the quality of your veteran core. Trotz, Quenneville don't win Stanley Cups without great players to ride. IMO Quinn was the right kind of choice for our team to make. If it weren't him I would have been looking at Montgomery (Denver U) or Sandelin (Minn-Duluth) just for two others. Actually I think the Rangers did look at Montgomery. Knoblauch would have been another good choice and we got him now too.

 

[eco's bones]

I would say that the Rangers have made significant progress since Gorton became General Manager and Quinn has done a very good job as coach. There are younger players I would have hoped would be doing better than they are now but some are doing just fine. It taking more time for some of our youngsters to get there than others is just how it works. It being such a young roster we're going to see some shit performances but there are days when things really do click and next year they should click even more and sooner or later I expect things are going to come together. Some people have no patience.

 

[NYR]

I would say that the Rangers have made significant progress since Gorton became General Manager and Quinn has done a very good job as coach. There are younger players I would have hoped would be doing better than they are now but some are doing just fine. It taking more time for some of our youngsters to get there than others is just how it works. It being such a young roster we're going to see some **** performances but there are days when things really do click and next year they should click even more and sooner or later I expect things are going to come together. Some people have no patience.

Sorry dude but I really don't consider turning an original 6 team into a farm club while forcing kids into roles they aren't ready for "significant progress".

 

[JHS]

Sorry dude but I really don't consider turning an original 6 team into a farm club while forcing kids into roles they aren't ready for "significant progress".

This is how I feel.