Player Discussion David Quinn

[True Blue]

This does not make much sense to me- how can you set standards for something that can't be measured? If he wants to measure "hard work" how can he fairly do that beyond the eye test which is subjective???

Because logically how can one measure hard work? That is why it is an intangible.

 

[True Blue]

Ruff needs to go. The guy has literally never had a good defensive team. I get that some NHL experience was needed last year with it being Quinn's first year, but it's time to move on.

This I completely agree with. Unfortunately, I cannot see it happening during the year.

 

[JHS]

Because logically how can one measure hard work? That is why it is an intangible.

Right that's my point-- its intangible because it can't be measured so how exactly is he able to "hold people accountable" for things that can't be measured?

Spiraling logic aside, the biggest issue is the coach is not giving his players the best opportunity to succeed. That's 100% on him.

 

[True Blue]

Right that's my point-- its intangible because it can't be measured so how exactly is he able to "hold people accountable" for things that can't be measured?

He says "X, Y & Z need to be done and I need to see this and that out of you". The players have the option of either complying or not. From I can tell, it is spelled out pretty clearly for them.

Spiraling logic aside, the biggest issue is the coach is not giving his players the best opportunity to succeed. That's 100% on him.

By doing what? Where is he failing his players?

 

[JHS]

He says "X, Y & Z need to be done and I need to see this and that out of you". The players have the option of either complying or not. From I can tell, it is spelled out pretty clearly for them.

By doing what? Where is he failing his players?

I’d argue his entire approach to coaching is failing right now! Questioning effort, constant line juggling, planting fear of failure in the minds of his players— he just seems like a very negative guy and his team is not responding to it. NHL players need to know their coach has their back and Quinn is alienating himself from the team already( his latest “I don’t care what you do in the driveway”) speech is yet another example. These guys are mostly early 20 somethings. They tune out this type of guy immediately and it’s pretty obvious right now, that they have tuned him out. I hope this dynamic changes, and again, I’m traditionally not a guy to get on the coach, but if something does not budge here this season is going to be brutal and probably a huge step back in the rebuild.

Let’s also consider that whatever system he wants them to play has still not been clear in over a year. None of this is helping player development at all and I’d consider that failing his players.

I’m still floored that he was given this job. Barry Trotz could have been the coach right now if the Rangers waited a few months to hire their coach. He took the same type of job with the Islanders and look how much better that team is.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I’d argue his entire approach to coaching is failing right now! Questioning effort, constant line juggling, planting fear of failure in the minds of his players— he just seems like a very negative guy and his team is not responding to it. NHL players need to know their coach has their back and Quinn is alienating himself from the team already( his latest “I don’t care what you do in the driveway”) speech is yet another example. These guys are mostly early 20 somethings. They tune out this type of guy immediately and it’s pretty obvious right now, that they have tuned him out. I hope this dynamic changes, and again, I’m traditionally not a guy to get on the coach, but if something does not budge here this season is going to be brutal and probably a huge step back in the rebuild.

Let’s also consider that whatever system he wants them to play has still not been clear in over a year. None of this is helping player development at all and I’d consider that failing his players.

I’m still floored that he was given this job. Barry Trotz could have been the coach right now if the Rangers waited a few months to hire their coach. He took the same type of job with the Islanders and look how much better that team is.

Yeah, Barry Trotz, noted developmental coach

 

[Tawnos]

Important reminder: subjectivity isn't inherently negative.

 

[JHS]

Yeah, Barry Trotz, noted developmental coach

“Development” coach? I don’t even know what that means?!? Trotz took the Islanders job which is essentially a team in development too during the same off season as the Rangers hired Quinn. IF the Rangers just waited until the end of the Stanley cup playoffs to hire a coach like practically every other NHL franchise does it’s possible Barry would have taken this job.

Being a low budget and inexperienced NHL coach does not automatically make you suited for developing players. It just makes you a low budget inexperienced coach.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

“Development” coach? I don’t even know what that means?!? Trotz took the Islanders job which is essentially a team in development too during the same off season as the Rangers hired Quinn. IF the Rangers just waited until the end of the Stanley cup playoffs to hire a coach like practically every other NHL franchise does it’s possible Barry would have taken this job.

Being a low budget and inexperienced NHL coach does not automatically make you suited for developing players. It just makes you a low budget inexperienced coach.

The Islanders hired Trotz to play trap hockey and try to get into the playoffs, they’re not a team in development. The Rangers hired Quinn specifically to work with individuals (specifically the young players) and cater to them as individuals and help turn them into everyday NHL players, they didn’t hire him for systems or wins

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The wheels are starting to come off, and a lot of it has to do with a somewhat rigid worldview on the game that Quinn holds. He’s going to have to start making some compromises quickly to field an engaged team.

 

[JHS]

The Islanders hired Trotz to play trap hockey and try to get into the playoffs, they’re not a team in development. The Rangers hired Quinn specifically to work with individuals (specifically the young players) and cater to them as individuals and help turn them into everyday NHL players, they didn’t hire him for systems or wins

UMmmm this makes no sense. So the Rangers purposefully hired a coach they think would not help the team win?!? Is that really your arguement??

I don’t watch many Islanders games but they don’t play “trap hockey” and they certainly are playing winning hockey.

The entire point is the Rangers should have hired the best coach they could have. They did not and it’s that simple. This idea that coaches “fit into molds” and that’s all they can do is laughable. All these NHL coaches work on developing players and many haven risen through the ranks of coaching by working with younger players. They all can develop players

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Last nights effort was exactly how Quinn wants this team to play. He’s not wrong.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

UMmmm this makes no sense. So the Rangers purposefully hired a coach they think would not help the team win?!? Is that really your arguement??

I don’t watch many Islanders games but they don’t play “trap hockey” and they certainly are playing winning hockey.

The entire point is the Rangers should have hired the best coach they could have. They did not and it’s that simple. This idea that coaches “fit into molds” and that’s all they can do is laughable. All these NHL coaches work on developing players and many haven risen through the ranks of coaching by working with younger players. They all can develop players

Whatever you say

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The wheels are starting to come off, and a lot of it has to do with a somewhat rigid worldview on the game that Quinn holds. He’s going to have to start making some compromises quickly to field an engaged team.

I don't think so. Sure, it was one game, but the team gave their coach the effort he wants for a full game and were rewarded for it. From start to finish, I think this was their most consistent effort over 60 minutes. The team showed they could do it and they won. Let's see where they go from here.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

UMmmm this makes no sense. So the Rangers purposefully hired a coach they think would not help the team win?!? Is that really your arguement??

I don’t watch many Islanders games but they don’t play “trap hockey” and they certainly are playing winning hockey.

The entire point is the Rangers should have hired the best coach they could have. They did not and it’s that simple. This idea that coaches “fit into molds” and that’s all they can do is laughable. All these NHL coaches work on developing players and many haven risen through the ranks of coaching by working with younger players. They all can develop players

It might make no sense to you, but GK right.

You can position it any way you want, but the Rangers are a building team and development is more important than wins right now. Quinn is the coach they believe can develop young players, build a culture, and create NHLers. Is he the coach who will win the Rangers their next cup? Likely not. But he is conceivably a better choice for the Ranger now than a John Tortorella would be or Barry Trotz.

Roger Neilson was the coach in the early 90s. He took a young team, developed guys, and had some success. But it took Mike Keenan to ultimately get that team over the top. But I don't think you'd want Keenan around young players.

I think that's GK's point. It's not black or white: win or don't win.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I don't think so. Sure, it was one game, but the team gave their coach the effort he wants for a full game and were rewarded for it. From start to finish, I think this was their most consistent effort over 60 minutes. The team showed they could do it and they won. Let's see where they go from here.

They had the same battle-level consistency issues last season until it finally clicked for them that they needed to compete for a full 60 minutes every night. With the team getting even younger and there being more roster turnover, it was always going to be a bigger challenge to get everyone on board this season.

I'm still expecting some rocky patches down the road, but last night was definitely a really big step in the right direction. It's pretty amazing when you have the entire team buying into the idea of a system and actually executing it on the ice, ain't it?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

They had the same battle-level consistency issues last season until it finally clicked for them that they needed to compete for a full 60 minutes every night. With the team getting even younger and there being more roster turnover, it was always going to be a bigger challenge to get everyone on board this season.

I'm still expecting some rocky patches down the road, but last night was definitely a really big step in the right direction. It's pretty amazing when you have the entire team buying into the idea of a system and actually executing it on the ice, ain't it?

I saw plenty of creativity and pretty plays by the young players last night. I saw Kakko dangle, hold onto the puck for too long and then lose it in the offensive zone. And then I saw Quinn put him out there with the first power play unit shortly thereafter. People here need to stop with the Quinn is stifling these young guys and trying to make them something they aren't . He's trying to teach them when it's appropriate to be creative and when the better play is to dump it in and go retrieve it. And he wants them to play with some attitude.

 

[will1066]

They had the same battle-level consistency issues last season until it finally clicked for them that they needed to compete for a full 60 minutes every night. With the team getting even younger and there being more roster turnover, it was always going to be a bigger challenge to get everyone on board this season.

I'm still expecting some rocky patches down the road, but last night was definitely a really big step in the right direction. It's pretty amazing when you have the entire team buying into the idea of a system and actually executing it on the ice, ain't it?

I think the battle-level issues can be partly attributed to the laid-back personalities of the veteran players in the room. At the same time, when you have Chytil coming like a bat out of hell and Lindgren also in the lineup, the yoots are jazzed to be playing together as a group. Even Kreider played with more energy.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

They had the same battle-level consistency issues last season until it finally clicked for them that they needed to compete for a full 60 minutes every night. With the team getting even younger and there being more roster turnover, it was always going to be a bigger challenge to get everyone on board this season.

I'm still expecting some rocky patches down the road, but last night was definitely a really big step in the right direction. It's pretty amazing when you have the entire team buying into the idea of a system and actually executing it on the ice, ain't it?

I'm not suggesting that this problem is solved. But there is a positive result to draw on.

 

[JHS]

It might make no sense to you, but GK right.

You can position it any way you want, but the Rangers are a building team and development is more important than wins right now. Quinn is the coach they believe can develop young players, build a culture, and create NHLers. Is he the coach who will win the Rangers their next cup? Likely not. But he is conceivably a better choice for the Ranger now than a John Tortorella would be or Barry Trotz.

Roger Neilson was the coach in the early 90s. He took a young team, developed guys, and had some success. But it took Mike Keenan to ultimately get that team over the top. But I don't think you'd want Keenan around young players.

I think that's GK's point. It's not black or white: win or don't win.

But again I don't understand how people think Trotz would not be able to develop young players? That's a completely unproven conclusion and in fact the opposite is being proven now as Trotz takes an unproven group of Islanders and moves them up into near the top of the standings. Plus it's not like Washington was dominating before he took over.

I think it's completely not true what we all have led to believe that some coaches just don't develop players. That absolutely used to be true during the Mike Keenan days but now most of the NHL is young and since the salary cap, developing players needs to be a skill every coach can do because so many players are entering the league at younger ages. AV in Philly is now developing a younger roster, Joel Quenville in Florida used to be looked at as a win now coach but he developed the Blackhawks into perennial contenders and now is down in Florida doing the same. Successful NHL coaches know how to win and I want these younger players learning how to win. Winning makes everyone develop quicker, it's really only about that.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

But again I don't understand how people think Trotz would not be able to develop young players? That's a completely unproven conclusion and in fact the opposite is being proven now as Trotz takes an unproven group of Islanders and moves them up into near the top of the standings. Plus it's not like Washington was dominating before he took over.

I think it's completely not true what we all have led to believe that some coaches just don't develop players. That absolutely used to be true during the Mike Keenan days but now most of the NHL is young and since the salary cap, developing players needs to be a skill every coach can do because so many players are entering the league at younger ages. AV in Philly is now developing a younger roster, Joel Quenville in Florida used to be looked at as a win now coach but he developed the Blackhawks into perennial contenders and now is down in Florida doing the same. Successful NHL coaches know how to win and I want these younger players learning how to win. Winning makes everyone develop quicker, it's really only about that.

I think you’re combining the idea of young players that have played in this league for years with young players who haven’t played in this league at all

 

[Raspewtin]

It's not really the effort level that they gave but a lot of refined fundamentals that made me happy last night.

Tighter gaps, short quick passes, appropriately timed dump and chases, strong defensive crease presence, good positioning on the boards, etc. Most of the season they have looked like a team that have never played NHL hockey and I saw that change last night.

The Lightning may have looked even (in CF% it was about 50/50) but the Lightning took a lot of poor quality shots which the Rangers just were not forcing before.

I'm skeptical but if we have an uneven season with performances like last night i'll be thrilled.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I saw plenty of creativity and pretty plays by the young players last night. I saw Kakko dangle, hold onto the puck for too long and then lose it in the offensive zone. And then I saw Quinn put him out there with the first power play unit shortly thereafter. People here need to stop with the Quinn is stifling these young guys and trying to make them something they aren't . He's trying to teach them when it's appropriate to be creative and when the better play is to dump it in and go retrieve it. And he wants them to play with some attitude.

The narrative that Quinn is ruining our younger players was always pretty dumb and mainly rooted in reactionary posts to short-term failures. These things don't instantaneously get better, especially when you consider a good chunk of these guys would only be in their first or second professional year after aging out of juniors. He wants to have the team engaged through all 3-zones and be aggressive on the puck over 200 feet of ice. It's easy to say it in practice, but it's really, really difficult to get them to execute that effort level consistently on the ice. It's not like he's some hard ass that doesn't understand players having bad games. He's said multiple times that a big thing he's looking for is a player still finding out how to be useful on a night where they don't have their legs or are struggling to make plays. It's a long drawn out way to say keep it simple, stupids.

I think the battle-level issues can be partly attributed to the laid-back personalities of the veteran players in the room. At the same time, when you have Chytil coming like a bat out of hell and Lindgren also in the lineup, the yoots are jazzed to be playing together as a group. Even Kreider played with more energy.

I don't know if I necessarily agree about that outside of Kreider, especially when the only other vets that we have left have thoroughly been battle tested in their careers. Hank is a freaking lunatic when it comes to competitiveness, and that's why he's a first-ballot hall of fame player. Fast busting his ass every game is why every coach he's had loves him. Staal sucks at achieving on-ice results, but he still puts in the effort to play hard every night, despite his body failing him at this point. Mika is pretty self explanatory with how we've seen him grow these last 3 years. Panarin is a superstar that we see constantly digging at other players to get pucks and make life hell for the other team. Other than that, who else is there? The rest are all barely old enough to drink

I'm not suggesting that this problem is solved. But there is a positive result to draw on.

100000% agreed. I'm just happy we finally saw the message stick after Quinn had to drag them in the media after the BOS game.

 

[GAGLine]

Right that's my point-- its intangible because it can't be measured so how exactly is he able to "hold people accountable" for things that can't be measured?

Spiraling logic aside, the biggest issue is the coach is not giving his players the best opportunity to succeed. That's 100% on him.

You can't measure hard work. It can't be quantified to say that X player is giving Y effort. But you can certainly tell when someone is working hard and you can certainly tell when one player is giving a better effort than another. If a coach didn't hold players accountable for that, I wouldn't want him as a coach.

Gusev is getting scratched because of his play away from the puck. Ovechkin basically just called out the entire Leafs team for the same reason. It was a lesson that he took a long time to learn, himself. In hockey, and in the NHL in particular, winning is just as much about stopping the other team from scoring as it is scoring yourself.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

You can't measure hard work. It can't be quantified to say that X player is giving Y effort. But you can certainly tell when someone is working hard and you can certainly tell when one player is giving a better effort than another. If a coach didn't hold players accountable for that, I wouldn't want him as a coach.

Gusev is getting scratched because of his play away from the puck. Ovechkin basically just called out the entire Leafs team for the same reason. It was a lesson that he took a long time to learn, himself. In hockey, and in the NHL in particular, winning is just as much about stopping the other team from scoring as it is scoring yourself.

The narrative that Quinn is ruining our younger players was always pretty dumb and mainly rooted in reactionary posts to short-term failures. These things don't instantaneously get better, especially when you consider a good chunk of these guys would only be in their first or second professional year after aging out of juniors. He wants to have the team engaged through all 3-zones and be aggressive on the puck over 200 feet of ice. It's easy to say it in practice, but it's really, really difficult to get them to execute that effort level consistently on the ice. It's not like he's some hard ass that doesn't understand players having bad games. He's said multiple times that a big thing he's looking for is a player still finding out how to be useful on a night where they don't have their legs or are struggling to make plays. It's a long drawn out way to say keep it simple, stupids.

I get the sense that some people have no idea just how insanely good pros are at this level, even someone like Michael Haley. Even the elite, elite work their asses off shift after shift, because they have to to be successful. Guys like Crosby and McDavid never stop moving, even in their own zone. This idea that you should let an 19 year old skate around and just do what they want to do is insane. Good teams are creative in the o-zone because they understand structure and they understand what their line mates are doing.