Player Discussion David Quinn: Part V

[bl02]

It’s called context, my friend. Without it, each team without a SC in a given year is a failure.

Yes let’s hope next year we have a better record than this year context and all.

 

[bl02]

That the team is even younger than last year, went through ridiculous hardships and was taken out of it's division and placed in what is the toughest in the league makes no difference?

Where is there more talent this year than last year? Are you seriously going to point to Lafreniere and Miller as that basis?? A pair of rookies? You do know that there is a world of difference between simply being talented and having that talent develop to be consistent contributors, right?

Also, are you basically hanging your entire argument on the fact that through 70 games last year, the Rangers finished by being 9 games over .500. And through 51 games this season, they are currently 7 games over .500. That's it? THAT is your argument?

So last years roster was more talented than this years? Does that take into account the improvements Kakko Chytil Fox etc?
Getting rid of one of the worst dmen in hockey?
I would easily take this years roster over last years on paper.
No this team is one game over .500 not 7 games over .500.
Last year they were 4 games over .500.
Yes I’m worried that we are pretty much gonna be what 10-17 Vs the top 4 (Off the top of my head)? next year I expect to be a playoff team excuses and all.

 

[duhmetreE]

That's almost assuredly accurate.

Even me, I'm probably 60/40 on him. I feel like I'm probably not alone in that stance either.

On a scale of 1 to 10 of how people feel about Quinn, with 1 being can't stand him and 10 being love him, I don't think the debate is exclusively about 1 vs. 10. In reality most people are probably in the 3-7 range. But I think there are probably more people in the 1 range than the 10. And for those posters, even someone coming in at 5 probably isn't close enough for their preference.

you could be at 5ish and credit him with 'player development'. I truly get his purpose. I did last year as well.

We have a perennial Hart, a blossoming Norris, 2 legit top6 centers, a legion of league best prospects, budding youth and a top goalie ( arguably a Vezina eventually). That doesn't matter when we play like we did last night. It goes out the window because it's not noticeable and we're in the moment.

I am in the camp that we should have a coach that is capable of BOTH, developing and coaching a NHL team.

 

[duhmetreE]

So last years roster was more talented than this years? Does that take into account the improvements Kakko Chytil Fox etc?
Getting rid of one of the worst dmen in hockey?
I would easily take this years roster over last years on paper.
No this team is one game over .500 not 7 games over .500.
Last year they were 4 games over .500.
Yes I’m worried that we are pretty much gonna be what 10-17 Vs the top 4 (Off the top of my head)? next year I expect to be a playoff team excuses and all.

IMO we've stagnated YoY. Did not take a step forward, while having a massive increase in individual performance.

At this point in the 'retool' or whatever you want to call it, a team stagnating could be put in the same tier as regressing. Context matters. If we were losing tight playoff games and just coming up short against top teams, it would be tolerated by most. BUT when we look like we did last night, which has been a common occurrence this season... That's where I see team regression. This is a MAJOR problem, not something you just gloss over.

There's an obvious issue with the team. The head coach is the prime suspect.

If there's not a top option available this summer, I can see him clinging on... Maybe an assistant replaced.

 

[bl02]

IMO we've stagnated YoY. Did not take a step forward, while having a massive increase in individual performance.

At this point in the 'retool' or whatever you want to call it, a team stagnating could be put in the same tier as regressing. Context matters. If we were losing tight playoff games and just coming up short against top teams, it would be tolerated by most. BUT when we look like we did last night, which has been a common occurrence this season... That's where I see team regression. This is a MAJOR problem, not something you just gloss over.

There's an obvious issue with the team. The head coach is the prime suspect.

If there's not a top option available this summer, I can see him clinging on... Maybe an assistant replaced.

The last two islanders games were eye openers. Not just because they were two games in the midst of a “winning streak”
If context is to be taken the islanders were playing like crap. We legit made them look like the mid 80’s oilers. Overall it wasn’t even a competitive game to be honest.
2021-2022 is gonna be a huge season for this team.

 

[CLW]

The problem is WHAT got people to feel 1 about Quinn vs. what got others to 7.

That's not the problem. The problem is if Quinn is good enough to develop the team. If the consensus score is basically between 1-7, which seems fair enough based on posts, then that's a pretty resounding no.

So, the real problem is what to do about it. Maybe there simply is no easy solution at this point, but at least the problem should be acknowledged rather than glossed over.

 

[Edge]

you could be at 5ish and credit him with 'player development'. I truly get his purpose. I did last year as well.

We have a perennial Hart, a blossoming Norris, 2 legit top6 centers, a legion of league best prospects, budding youth and a top goalie ( arguably a Vezina eventually). That doesn't matter when we play like we did last night. It goes out the window because it's not noticeable and we're in the moment.

I am in the camp that we should have a coach that is capable of BOTH, developing and coaching a NHL team.

You're right and part of the problem we have this season is that our Hart candidate and two top 6 centers have also disappeared against certain competition and that's why there are serious concerns about the roster makeup and the very real possibility that neither of those two centers are on the roster in 18 months. So it's not just a matter of Quinn not arming them with the strategies they need to succeed in big games.

But, some of the factors you listed are also why I think brighter days are ahead.

I am in the campo that we should have both as well. I'm not in the camp of over-exaggerations and fixations. I never have been, regardless of the issue. And that is happening A LOT with Quinn, even for people who are driven nuts by multiple things.

 

[eco's bones]

I hope so because I watch a team like Ottawa who you can see their young players coming together and getting better and better.
I hope we can rid ourselves of the excuses next year. This team as a whole can not regress again.

Ottawa is going to get better too. They have a lot of good young players. Stutzle got thrown into the deep end and responded well but there have been short cuts taken and things that he’s going to need to clean up. When you have players like Panarin, Mika, Buch, Strome and Kreider you can take the time to get their games together. Kakko’s two way game has come together nicely. It was abysmal his first year. As the season moved along Lafreniere’s positioning improved immensely and he’s scored a number of clutch goals.

Lastly Ottawa plays in maybe the weakest division.

 

[Edge]

So last years roster was more talented than this years? Does that take into account the improvements Kakko Chytil Fox etc?
Getting rid of one of the worst dmen in hockey?
I would easily take this years roster over last years on paper.
No this team is one game over .500 not 7 games over .500.
Last year they were 4 games over .500.
Yes I’m worried that we are pretty much gonna be what 10-17 Vs the top 4 (Off the top of my head)? next year I expect to be a playoff team excuses and all.

Last year's team is probably more or less on par with this year's team. Wasn't that what so many were bitching about 5 months ago, how we weren't different from last year? So, big surprise, we aren't different.

Fox is better than he was, but ADA's production is lost. In his place, we've got Smith playing a regular role.

Kakko and Chytil are better, but Zibanejad and Kreider are not.

The goaltending is better now, but it wasn't to start the year.

I think some things are better, some things aren't. But I also think we are in a different playing environment than last year in terms of team matchups.

We can't hang with Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh or the Islanders, but we can defeat Philly, New Jersey and Buffalo. But we don't know how'd we fair against wider competition over the rest of the schedule. Does that push our record closer to last year, does it push it further down?

Based on how we've played the last month or so, we're probably a team that makes the playoffs this year over an 82 game schedule --- as a bottom seed.

 

[eco's bones]

The weird thing with this whole debate is even the people who end up defending Quinn often have quite a few disagreements with him. It's just not as...over the top.

For example you don't see usernames like HireQuinnForever, or WeAlwaysGetAGoodCoach, or PleaseStaySmith.

For the people who focus on one thing, be it a player or a coach, it almost becomes obsessive and overly aggressive.

I don't understand going onto a thread and trying to ignite a fire. When the team goes 4-0 against the Devils or 7-3 in their previous 10 games, you're less likely to see someone go in there and post something "Where all Quinn haters now?" "Bwahahaha, Quinn haters got nothing to say after this game?" or shit like that.

But admittedly, I can not only predict when we're gonna see fires like this, but I can usually narrow it down to a small group of people who feel almost feel like they exist just for those moments. To the point where they almost don't comment on anything else, it's literally tied to one subject and one outcome.

I've heard people talking about how they feel like they're attacked for speaking out against Quinn. To be honest with you, I feel like it's been the opposite. That segment has tended to be much more aggressive and unyielding on their views. I don't see a "praise be to Quinn" post every two minutes. But I sure as hell see a lot "screw this guy" type posts...constantly.

I get it, people think they're being funny with "Quinnettes" or whatever name they and 7 other people find amusing. But you don't see people on the other side going "Ah, here come the Crazy 8s" or some other name that we all know is going to raise the issue quickly.

I think the people who love Quinn is a pretty small segment of the board. But we gotta get out of this fanatical mindset that if you're not losing your f***ing mind over every thing that you just don't care or that you're automatically fine with everything you're seeing. It's not that black or white, it's many shades of gray.

Rangersfansdon’tliketheircoachesforlongoratall.

 

[CLW]

You're right and part of the problem we have this season is that our Hart candidate and two top 6 centers have also disappeared against certain competition and that's why there are serious concerns about the roster makeup and the very real possibility that neither of those two centers are on the roster in 18 months. So it's not just a matter of Quinn not arming them with the strategies they need to succeed in big games.

But, some of the factors you listed are also why I think brighter days are ahead.

I am in the campo that we should have both as well. I'm not in the camp of over-exaggerations and fixations. I never have been, regardless of the issue. And that is happening A LOT with Quinn, even for people who are driven nuts by multiple things.

The competency issue is the real issue, not so much people's personal reactions to the coach. The coach in sports, especially if things are not going particularly well, will get a lot of flack, rightly or wrongly. Also people have different motives for their criticism, some want the playoffs at all costs and don't care so much about the overall picture. Others have their own points of concern.

Quinn has, after 3 years, failed to impress or show any particular talent as a coach. Even if management make some, imo pretty obvious, corrections to the roster, is Quinn the man to help shape the team and take the team forward? Or is a correction needed here as well? It's a pretty spacious concept to blame the roster for the failings of a coach, especially a roster that is clearly talented, not only on paper.

 

[tomobson]

It's very worrisome that the islanders have just lit us up after how badly they've been struggling. They're a team that plays playoff type hockey in the regular season and we just can't compete. We seriously only had one or two good shifts the entire game last night. Very sad. Next season is Quinn's last shot. The roster will be filled out a lot better and he will have no more excuses. And if a good part of that veteran core is gone this off-season we'll see how good he actually is at developing forwards because they have only taken baby steps so far. At the very least a new assistant has to be here next season.

 

[RGY]

Yeah the people who don’t have emotional outbursts where they project dramatic personality flaws on perfect strangers because of the outcome of a hockey game are pathetic

Go watch f***ing Tennis Mr. Charmin.

 

[RGY]

The weird thing with this whole debate is even the people who end up defending Quinn often have quite a few disagreements with him. It's just not as...over the top.

For example you don't see usernames like HireQuinnForever, or WeAlwaysGetAGoodCoach, or PleaseStaySmith.

For the people who focus on one thing, be it a player or a coach, it almost becomes obsessive and overly aggressive.

I don't understand going onto a thread and trying to ignite a fire. When the team goes 4-0 against the Devils or 7-3 in their previous 10 games, you're less likely to see someone go in there and post something "Where all Quinn haters now?" "Bwahahaha, Quinn haters got nothing to say after this game?" or shit like that.

But admittedly, I can not only predict when we're gonna see fires like this, but I can usually narrow it down to a small group of people who feel almost feel like they exist just for those moments. To the point where they almost don't comment on anything else, it's literally tied to one subject and one outcome.

I've heard people talking about how they feel like they're attacked for speaking out against Quinn. To be honest with you, I feel like it's been the opposite. That segment has tended to be much more aggressive and unyielding on their views. I don't see a "praise be to Quinn" post every two minutes. But I sure as hell see a lot "screw this guy" type posts...constantly.

I get it, people think they're being funny with "Quinnettes" or whatever name they and 7 other people find amusing. But you don't see people on the other side going "Ah, here come the Crazy 8s" or some other name that we all know is going to raise the issue quickly.

I think the people who love Quinn is a pretty small segment of the board. But we gotta get out of this fanatical mindset that if you're not losing your f***ing mind over every thing that you just don't care or that you're automatically fine with everything you're seeing. It's not that black or white, it's many shades of gray.

Edge, it comes down to be a passionate fan base that wants to see success. And while I can understand growing pains, when I see the same personnel mismanagement, the same inconsistencies with effort, the same reoccuring theme with this team (that really has no identity), it starts to raise concerns with the youth we have here...that the well could be poisoned, that the coach could do more harm than good.

And for me, the way they showed up (or didnt show up) against the Islanders this past week, looking so unprepared for a team they are so very familiar with at this point (or should be) and they lose the way they did, thats an indictment of the coach. The team look so uninspired through and through. That starts from the coach down. I have said it all year, and it was not ever more present than these last 2 Islanders games. Losing is one thing, it happens, but losing the way they did is discouraging and concerning.

I have had enough of this coach.

 

[RGY]

What complacency? No one here thought the playoffs this season were realistic. Why move the goalposts now? Because people are pissed Tony D got banished or Laff isn't scoring enough goals for their liking? That's whats really pathetic.

You people wait for them to lose and then come in guns a blazing how awful the coach is. Good luck with that.

Move goalposts? What?? Lol i dont think you understand how to apply that properly. I didnt say I expected playoffs. I dont care that Tony D was removed from the team, I understood it. So dont just lump me in with that shit.

Laff didnt score enough. He simply didnt for a #1OA pick. And Kakko didnt either for a 2nd year #2OA pick. You want to make every excuse under the sun to cover that up and feel good about it then go for it. Thats straight up disappointing production. And yeah they were getting 3rd line minutes...you know who couldve changed that? The coach. Kreider belonged on the 3rd line weeks ago. Blackwell belonged on the 4th line weeks ago. Personnel management and decision making has been miserable.

Lol I come in guns blazing even when they won because there were plenty of games their flaws still shined through, which as I have pointed out over and over again comes down to EFFORT and PREPARATION.

 

[haveandare]

Go watch f***ing Tennis Mr. Charmin.

Get some fresh air

 

[True Blue]

So last years roster was more talented than this years? Does that take into account the improvements Kakko Chytil Fox etc?
Getting rid of one of the worst dmen in hockey?
I would easily take this years roster over last years on paper.
No this team is one game over .500 not 7 games over .500.
Last year they were 4 games over .500.
Yes I’m worried that we are pretty much gonna be what 10-17 Vs the top 4 (Off the top of my head)? next year I expect to be a playoff team excuses and all.

You are looking at the term "talent" with absolute blinders on. There is talent. And then there is developed talent. Has Kakko made improvements? Sure. But there is A LOT more to develop,

And in NOTHING that you mention do you even think of addressing any of the mitigating circumstances that I mentioned. And the sheer lusciousness that your regression foolishness is solely based on that a team with 70 games played has 2 games over 500 more than a team with 51 games played.

Regressed? Give that they are finishing where expected in spite of some ridiculous rash of injuries and other circumstances, the team over achieved by a country mile.

 

[bl02]

You are looking at the term "talent" with absolute blinders on. There is talent. And then there is developed talent. Has Kakko made improvements? Sure. But there is A LOT more to develop,

And in NOTHING that you mention do you even think of addressing any of the mitigating circumstances that I mentioned. And the sheer lusciousness that your regression foolishness is solely based on that a team with 70 games played has 2 games over 500 more than a team with 51 games played.

Regressed? Give that they are finishing where expected in spite of some ridiculous rash of injuries and other circumstances, the team over achieved by a country mile.

No not looking at it with blinders but but thanks for proving my point. The younger guys who should be impact players like Chytil, Kakko, Fox, etc are a year older and should mean that this team possesses more talent than last years team. And adding what was supposed to be an elite talent in Lafreniere. Who are we missing from last year that backs up your point? Fast? Staal? Hank? Maybe Fast we miss a bit. This years roster should be more talented and yes should be more developed talent than last year.

Yes many mitigating circumstances that hurt many teams not just the New york Rangers.
I just hope next year we can stop with the mitigating circumstances/excuses and see an improvement in record over the previous year. Yes that is the bottom line unfortunately. Like the great Bill Parcells says You are what your record says you are. especially if they don't improve in the standings next year again.

Again. so many other teams had a ridiculous rash of injuries and covid. In fact we aren't even close to being the team with most man losses to injury so no the team has not over achieved by a country mile lol
In fact we are in the bottom 3rd (ML to injury)

Next year must be the year this team takes a real step forward.

 

[Tawnos]

No not looking at it with blinders but but thanks for proving my point. The younger guys who should be impact players like Chytil, Kakko, Fox, etc are a year older and should mean that this team possesses more talent than last years team. And adding what was supposed to be an elite talent in Lafreniere. Who are we missing from last year that backs up your point? Fast? Staal? Hank? Maybe Fast we miss a bit. This years roster should be more talented and yes should be more developed talent than last year.

Yes many mitigating circumstances that hurt many teams not just the New york Rangers.
I just hope next year we can stop with the mitigating circumstances/excuses and see an improvement in record over the previous year. Yes that is the bottom line unfortunately. Like the great Bill Parcells says You are what your record says you are. especially if they don't improve in the standings next year again.

Again. so many other teams had a ridiculous rash of injuries and covid. In fact we aren't even close to being the team with most man losses to injury so no the team has not over achieved by a country mile lol
In fact we are in the bottom 3rd (ML to injury)

Next year must be the year this team takes a real step forward.

This team is significantly better than last year's team. We're just in a much tougher division.

 

[bl02]

This team is significantly better than last year's team. We're just in a much tougher division.

I respect your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't think they are significantly better as a team/group. Certain individuals and their individual stats sure.
Yes the top 4 in the division are pretty good teams but not unbeatable and they have flaws (they are not on the level of TB, LV, Colorado and even Carolina). On the other hand, the bottom 2 have been ahl level teams for most of the year and Philly has been bad this year. If you wanna say this is were we should be as a team fine but I can't buy that this team over achieved or got significantly better.
If the divisions remained the same next year which I doubt they would this team can't go 10-17 or whatever they went against the top 4. That's just not a real improvement.

 

[Tawnos]

I respect your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't think they are significantly better as a team/group. Certain individuals and their individual stats sure.
Yes the top 4 in the division are pretty good teams but not unbeatable and they have flaws (they are not on the level of TB, LV, Colorado and even Carolina). On the other hand, the bottom 2 have been ahl level teams for most of the year and Philly has been bad this year. If you wanna say this is were we should be as a team fine but I can't buy that this team over achieved or got significantly better.
If the divisions remained the same next year which I doubt they would this team can't go 10-17 or whatever they went against the top 4. That's just not a real improvement.

I think the record isn’t really what we should be looking at. We saw a team this year that, overall, maintained its offensive firepower while making major strides defensively. Those strides are inconsistent, which makes sense with a D group that has 4 first or second year players on it. But they’re significant strides nonetheless.

I don’t think they really overachieved. I think they just achieved. They have challenges to overcome, but it’s all part of the process. They’re where they should be at this point in it. What’s left is more nebulous.

 

[RGY]

LMFAO WOL DQ.... what a clown you are... too little, too late

 

[bl02]

LMFAO WOL DQ.... what a clown you are... too little, too late

OMG you can't even make up that quote! Weren't we just neutered by the same team 48 hours ago? Why not just come out and say the truth. I lost my best friend to a foot injury and we pretty much have no one else so I have to play him.

 

[jay from jersey]

The last two islanders games were eye openers. Not just because they were two games in the midst of a “winning streak”
If context is to be taken the islanders were playing like crap. We legit made them look like the mid 80’s oilers. Overall it wasn’t even a competitive game to be honest.
2021-2022 is gonna be a huge season for this team.

It’s just more of the same. Even if teams are going thru their own slumps. If they are physical and well coached teams, this current ranger squad as coached doesn’t stand a chance. It’s definitely a personnel issue on our end as far as players go. Coaching is also a huge reason. Quinn doesn’t out-coach the other guy. I’ve never seen it. The way he prepares this team is also a red flag. There is absolutely no justification to come out flat, lethargic, and sloppy in almost every game this season. For those that say the coach has no blame in this is ridiculous. He’s the captain of the ship.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

LMFAO WOL DQ.... what a clown you are... too little, too late

Gauthier is only playing because Howden is out with a boken foot. Let's be real here.