Player Discussion David Quinn: Part IV

[Pawnee Rangers]

You said this
He said this
Is it only Brilliant when he says it?

This was the post I was talking about, skippy.

I think most people are in agreement about the PP time. And who you quoted has explicitly said he's very frustrated by it this year.

As to the other points, it's just a weird list, kind of hard to respond to.
1) You've assumed from the start there is a gameplan deliberately put in place to stay to the perimeter, despite Quinn repeating ad nauseum over the last three seasons his hopes for players to get to the net, 'that's how goals in this league are scored,' etc. So, I do disagree that this is a gameplan or strategy issue. It's clearly one of Quinn's priorities for his forwards. What to respond to then, is something other than your concern, and it's to ask whether or not the Rangers actually execute this priority. Your answer, clearly, is no. Mine would be yes, but in the wrong ways.

2) Watching other teams, I disagree that the Rangers don't create time and space for themselves relative to the league. Our defensemen especially all excel in either being Adam Fox, or mimic his patience as best they can (with varying results on a scale of Lindgren to Smith). Even the concern about a perimeter gameplan would contradict this to my mind. If you're deliberately trying to stay to the outside, and by all accounts doing that, then what else would you get yourself than time and space?

3/4) This was responded to. Some people think the personnel deserves more opportunity to turn it around, some are equally frustrated, some think the PP is actually good but just unlucky.

5) Which skill players? Panarin and Strome have excelled. Zibanejad gets most of his chances on the rush. Buchnevich has thrived. We get up the ice with speed and control pretty frequently. We don't get up with numbers as often, and our forechecking is very weak. Is that a transition issue exactly?

6) How could anyone respond to this?

 

[Edge]

Re: Quinn, I'm really not sure he's their guy beyond this season.

While we can disagree about timing or degrees of like or dislike for him, I do think that there's a decent possibility he plays out the year and they consider other options.

I say all this with the caveat that it might also depend on who is out there.

I think usage conversation might also get interesting depending on how the Rangers proceed with Zibanejad, Strome and Buch. When you look at a five man powerplay, there's at least some reason to believe that all three of those guys might not be on it this time next season.

So I think there's potentially more significant change coming in the next year or so.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This was the post I was talking about, skippy.

Yeah buddy, What I quoted is point #5 in that post lmao.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Yeah buddy, What I quoted is point #5 in that post lmao.

So not getting up with numbers often enough is something he's preaching? Like, that's his game plan or part of his system? Is that what you're saying? That's what y0u took from his very well laid out 5 points?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Was Hughes ready last year? Was Kakko?

They did not look ready to me, nor does Laff this year.

Laff basically wet his pants in OT last game and that was his most visible point in any of his last couple games. Maybe that is why he is not getting much PP time, because it would actually hurt his confidence to play there and fumble the puck every time he touches it?

How about the difference between what most would call borderline NHL talents in Blackwell, Rooney and such looking way better in their time on ice versus Laff? Is it possible we are seeing a difference in NHL readiness, or are we supposed to assume the talent level is similar?

How are you defining NHL ready? But yeah I think Hughes was NHL ready. Just going off the numbers he was positive at driving offense relative to his team, and while his pointtl totals weren't great he shot 2.3% at 5v5 which is hilariously low.

Kakko probably wasn't NHL ready, considering how bad he was at 5v5.

Laf to me is closer to Hughes although I have criticized him plenty and have been frustrated with his periods of invisibility, bad habits/indecisiveness and his lack of production but he has been driving offense in a positive direction and should have a few more points than he does. Like I said I think he's an NHLer just not the caliber of player we should expect him to be.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So not getting up with numbers often enough is something he's preaching? Like, that's his game plan or part of his system? Is that what you're saying? That's what y0u took from his very well laid out 5 points?

No, but here are the facts.

It's happening and it happens way to often. Whether this is something that he wants by design or not is kind of irrelevant at this point because it isn't being corrected.

Also, my takeaway from that post (and really every post hes had in here) is that there is a massive disconnect at multiple levels of the organization from the FO to the Coach and the Coach to the Team itself. I agree with him.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

No, but here are the facts.

It's happening and it happens way to often. Whether this is something that he wants by design or not is kind of irrelevant at this point because it isn't being corrected.

Also, my takeaway from that post (and really every post hes had in here) is that there is a massive disconnect at multiple levels of the organization from the FO to the Coach and the Coach to the Team itself. I agree with him.

But that's not the same as 'having no system.' Why keep moving the goalposts? That's how this whole things started, a bunch of you guys declaring Quinn had no system.

 

[Off Sides]

How are you defining NHL ready? But yeah I think Hughes was NHL ready. Just going off the numbers he was positive at driving offense relative to his team, and while his pointtl totals weren't great he shot 2.3% at 5v5 which is hilariously low.

Kakko probably wasn't NHL ready, considering how bad he was at 5v5.

Laf to me is closer to Hughes although I have criticized him plenty and have been frustrated with his periods of invisibility, bad habits/indecisiveness and his lack of production but he has been driving offense in a positive direction and should have a few more points than he does. Like I said I think he's an NHLer just not the caliber of player we should expect him to be.

I don't know, I wish I was seeing more stuff showing, he is skating with the puck up ice, and/or making plays with it, and/or getting some good shots on net and it's just not going in.

It kind of seems to me like he is 19-20 years old coming out of the Q directly to the NHL and that stuff he used to do is just not working. I think there needs to be a maturation of his game that no one is going to be able to make happen for him. Quite honestly Quinn is probably actually playing him more and showing more patience with him than most if not all other coahces would.

That is not to say I like Quinn, Kakko should have seen OT last game, Chytil should have played more minutes too. Yet with Laff I'm not so sure what else Quinn can do to try to give him an opportunity to run with it, he is playing 7th most ice time per game even strength among forwards, and some of those getting less, with lesser line-mates are doing more with that time.

 

[RGY]

Delete

 

[NYR]

But that's not the same as 'having no system.' Why keep moving the goalposts? That's how this whole things started, a bunch of you guys declaring Quinn had no system.

He has no competent system.

The only plays being made (offensively) are off the rush.
If that doesn't work, the puck goes back the other way in quick fashion.

You've watched this game after game for 3 years so what is it that's so hard to grasp exactly?

Is the whole team ignoring him?

Stop..

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Yeah lol I wasnt paying attention to the years on that one, forgot.


Otoh, did you use Karlsson and Josi (perennial norris contenders at time of signing) as examples as to why he wasnt signed to be a number 1?

Bc, uh, it really just shows that if he was signed as a #2, the rangers believed he was the best damn #2 in the league at that point. And then its just semantics.

Jesum.

Yes?

Did you miss the fact that Karlsson was a) four years older, b) signed to a contract one year longer, that c) has a 44% higher cap hit, and d) was already damaged goods at that point?

Or that Josi was a) five years older (already 30 for chrissakes), b) signed to a contract one year longer, and that c) had a 13% higher cap hit?

And I do think the Rangers believed they were signing one of the best damn 2D's in the league.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

He has no competent system.

The only plays being made (offensively) are off the rush.
If that doesn't work, the puck goes back the other way in quick fashion.

You've watched this game after game for 3 years so what is it that's so hard to grasp exactly?

Is the whole team ignoring him?

Stop..

Oh, no competent system now? I think you need to get together with all the other flat earthers and figure out just what the problem is. Half of you are saying they have no transition game and can't score off the rush. You're saying the only plays they're making ARE on the rush. It's getting hard to keep up with all of this.

Curious, what was wrong with them last year? They had the 5th highest scoring offense in the league. Was Quinn keeping them from being a top 3 team?

 

[bleedblue94]

So who is coaching the team tonight now that the staff is in protocol??

edit nvm, AHL staff is coming up

 

[Shadowtron]

So who is coaching the team tonight now that the staff is in protocol??

Hartford coaching staff along with Chris Drury.

 

[NYR]

Oh, no competent system now? I think you need to get together with all the other flat earthers and figure out just what the problem is. Half of you are saying they have no transition game and can't score off the rush. You're saying the only plays they're making ARE on the rush. It's getting hard to keep up with all of this.

Curious, what was wrong with them last year? They had the 5th highest scoring offense in the league. Was Quinn keeping them from being a top 3 team?

Flat earthers.. Really?

How about some common sense here.
Read my other post.

They rode the coattails of Zib and Panarin having career years.
Add in ADA's points.

All based on individual efforts.

There was nothing cohesive which is why the Canes ran right over them.

That said.. They weren't even a playoff team last year so I'm not even sure what you're getting at but..

THAT'S THE PROOF!

 

[Off Sides]

Jesum.

Yes?

Did you miss the fact that Karlsson was a) four years older, b) signed to a contract one year longer, that c) has a 44% higher cap hit, and d) was already damaged goods at that point?

Or that Josi was a) five years older (already 30 for chrissakes), b) signed to a contract one year longer, and that c) had a 13% higher cap hit?

And I do think the Rangers believed they were signing one of the best damn 2D's in the league.

If other teams jumped off a bridge...

I understand what you are conveying about Trouba and his contract, yet I think it's difficult to say any of those contracts are both good ones or did not go to players who are better than Trouba, or that those teams at the time of those signings were in a rebuild.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Flat earthers.. Really?

How about some common sense here.
Read my other post.

They rode the coattails of Zib and Panarin having career years.
Add in ADA's points.

All based on individual efforts.

There was nothing cohesive which is why the Canes ran right over them.

That said.. They weren't even a playoff team last year so I'm not even sure what you're getting at but..

THAT'S THE PROOF!

There you go, you cracked the code. There's his system. But you're saying one thing, people are saying the complete opposite, I'm just trying to figure out what the issue is.

 

[NYR]

There you go, you cracked the code. There's his system.

They're both a no show this year so maybe it makes a little sense?

 

[JHS]

Why has this thread regressed into semantically arguments about no system vs no competent system? I mean what’s the point of semantics?

Anyone defending Quinn please just answer this question— is this team in a better position to win games now as opposed to last year? The answer is clearly no.

Quinn has had 3 years. 2 of those years I read on this board “the team is too young and too inexperienced,” to fairly hold the coach accountable. Now it’s some other argument for why the team is no better off than they’ve been at any point under Quinn. The excuses need to stop. This organization is going nowhere, has gone no where and will continue to go nowhere under this coach. It’s painfully obvious.

 

[NYR]

Why has this thread regressed into semantically arguments about no system vs no competent system? I mean what’s the point of semantics?

Anyone defending Quinn please just answer this question— is this team in a better position to win games now as opposed to last year? The answer is clearly no.

Quinn has had 3 years. 2 of those years I read on this board “the team is too young and too inexperienced,” to fairly hold the coach accountable. Now it’s some other argument for why the team is no better off than they’ve been at any point under Quinn. The excuses need to stop. This organization is going nowhere, has gone no where and will continue to go nowhere under this coach. It’s painfully obvious.

There's my man again.
Making complete sense again.
Go figure..

 

[TheBloodyNine]

God help this board regardless of the outcome tonight. Knoblach win or lose is a storyline.

 

[Peltz]

Anyone defending Quinn please just answer this question— is this team in a better position to win games now as opposed to last year? The answer is clearly no.

I agree this season is definitely a step backwards. I'll give you that. But it's also such a unique season with such bizarre circumstances, I do get concerned about drawing too many conclusions about whether they really need to replace him now, as opposed to waiting until the offseason. I'm not seeing such egregious play (other than the long 2 week losing streak they had) that is so alarming or under expectations that we need to pull the rip cord now.

I agree he's not our guy long term, but I also am not seeing the panic right now other people are that we need to change everything coaches halfway into this season.

 

[Peltz]

All based on individual efforts.

Come on man. This is a clear double standard.

 

[NYR]

Come on man. This is a clear double standard.

No it's not Bro.

I always keep it fair, for better or worse.

Let's take tonight's game and I certainly won't make it through because I'm up at 3am but let's focus on one single aspect just for tonight.

Let's focus on the offensive zone entries.
They're going to bum rush the zone, try to get it in deep as possible.
If there's no scoring chance then they're going to send it back to the nearest defenseman.
Meanwhile every team knows this and are just waiting to pick off the pass and send it the other way.

If they don't score directly off the rush, it's one and done, plain and simple.

No second or third chances.
No front net presence.

This is where you need to dump and chase.
Cycle the puck if there's no shot.

You can't just keep giving up the pick entirely.

This is 101 type shit... ADJUST!

 

[aufheben]

Why has this thread regressed into semantically arguments about no system vs no competent system? I mean what’s the point of semantics?

Anyone defending Quinn please just answer this question— is this team in a better position to win games now as opposed to last year? The answer is clearly no.

Quinn has had 3 years. 2 of those years I read on this board “the team is too young and too inexperienced,” to fairly hold the coach accountable. Now it’s some other argument for why the team is no better off than they’ve been at any point under Quinn. The excuses need to stop. This organization is going nowhere, has gone no where and will continue to go nowhere under this coach. It’s painfully obvious.

Well, they’re light-years better defensively, the PK is sitting 4th in the league. The biggest differences
besides that is they were scoring unsustainably last season and now that pendulum is swinging the other way.

Again though, I’m struggling to string together all the arguments. One guy says “no one cares whether they win or lose”, and another guy says “can we win games right now yay/nay?”

If I’ve pieced it together...we need a coach who gives the kids major roles but also puts the team in the best position to win every night, makes the playoffs but allows rookies to make mistakes, employs an exciting brand of hockey that is also good defensively (and offensively), coordinates elite special teams (a.k.a. the Power Play, no one cares that the Penalty Kill is elite...until it sucks, that is), never [ever] changes the lines but also puts together the best possible lineup on a daily basis, literally doesn’t say f***ing anything in post-game interviews, has an ambiguous accent, and lastly, is not a recycled NHL coach but also has 45+ years of coaching experience.