Player Discussion David Quinn: Part II
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AV's entire coaching tenure can be surmised as riding the backs of HOF goaltenders. The team got progressively worse under him every year since his 1st year. He took an incredibly defensively responsible team, freed them up offensively, and had the best of both worlds. As they kept moving away from Tort's structure it became obvious that AV had no clue how to adjust/adapt to the players he had or was up against. What kind of coach thinks Girardi & Staal in a man-to-man overload defensive system is a good idea? His own stubbornness has gotten in the way of a cup more than once.
Chimpradamus
Registered User
Let me tell you what made me doubt him...
1) NHL statistic: the NYR allowed the most backdoor goals of any team in the league, bar none during Vigneault's coaching. That, is really bad, because those are supreme quality chances.
2) He forced one of the most immobile bluelines try to play catch and move their feet, when they couldn't. I mean, what the hell?
3) He wanted to play a game with puck moving defensemen. We had few. When we had them, Vigneault buried them. Why?! Who the hell knows? I don't know what went through his head, because nothing he did made sense. He wanted immobile D-men to skate and puck moving defensemen to get ice time, then he gave them none and played immobile D-men. That was ONE aspect of his idiotic strategy.
So tell me, what did he ACTUALLY try to accomplish here? Please enlighten me. Yandle was buried. Shattenkirk was buried. Staal and Girardi sucked. No one played well. How about now? Yandle is thriving, Shattenkirk is thriving. HUH? How about playing puck moving defensemen if you want them? Nooooooo. Do I need to continue?
THEN Vigneault blamed it all on poor goaltending. Yeah, sure. He couldn't believe he was at fault the team imploded. He couldn't even believe he would be fired. And you ask me why I think he was useless? Well, I've only touched on the defense so far, I see PLENTY of reasons to see why Vigneault was bloody useless. You want me to continue with his stretch pass strategy and being passive all over the ice, until when you shouldn't be active, then he changed it up? Do you?
Can you imagine Fox playing for Vigneault? He would be buried so deep. DeAngelo? Get the hell out of here! Where is Girardi to fail at everything I want to do, but I LIKE him! Then the GM forces my hand, buys out Girardi and I blame it all on Lundqvist. Oh yeah, what a great coach.
Vigneault was useless in New York. HE should've had a buyout. I've watched NYR play hockey since 2005. Since then, Vigneault has been the worst coach I've ever seen, bar none.
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JHS
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Interesting take and I would have not taken any exception with this if it was your original post but your first post just made a categorical statement about AV that’s just not supported by his resume. He had his flaws no question- and you hit on most of them but I think it’s a bit hyperbolic to call him the worst coach since 2005 when he got the team to the cup finals and really what else is this game about except for wins? It’s also way to early to say Quinn is a better coach than AV— especially when the statistics show this team was historically bad defensively based on virtually ever metric out there for the first 35ish games of this season. Either way— not much of a point debating about AV. This fan base ran him and Torts out of town— two of the most successful coaches in NHL history but seem to love an unproven college coach. How that makes any sense is still a mystery to me.
JHS
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What I meant by relatively new was because Lindgren was moved up to play on the top pair for a short stretch recently and now is back with Fox. Sorry I worded it confusingly.
I love the Fox-Lindgren pair. Both guys are mobile and have a real opportunity to develop into a long term option. It’s a little bit like the Leetch - Beukeboom pairing back in its hey day because Lindgren is a defense first guy, and a tough guy too and Fox has that move with the puck up the ice mentality. I hope Quinn keeps these guys together for the rest of this year.
Miamipuck
Al Swearengen
JHS
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But the assumption is that I have an agenda against Quinn- absolutely not true. Quinn just happens to be the coach today, if it was another coach executing poorly I'd have a problem with him too. The issue is if people take a counter opinion on this entire forum, they get attacked and called names and a whole bunch of other nonsense. It's the culture of this site and that's what my problem is. Dare I take a stance that is different than others I guess.
Really? Because it feels like it is true. And please don't obfuscate by stating " Quinn just happens to be the coach today". Your rants have dictated by the belief that Gorton made a huge mistake by not going after Trotz. That an experienced coach could have fixed anything and this team would be no less than 10 points better in the standings.
The other part is your incredible ability to completely ignore what anyone is telling you and continue to simply talk past the person. You constantly harp "The improvement could not have happened overnight" when rebutted that it had not happened all of a sudden, but gradually since the beginning of the year, you continuously ignore that and again begin harping on how this could not have just happened overnight. When pointed out that did not happen over night, you continuously ignore that and again begin harping on how this could not have just happened overnight............
And then we get to standards. In your eyes, Quinn should be judged using the same exact standard as Sullivan. Which ignores context and what kind of teams they are coaching. When this is pointed out to you, you continue to ignore it, claiming it does not matter how young they are, that only wins count. By your theory, Kakko's performance should be viewed with the same standard as Patrice Bergeron's. Which, frankly is asinine.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
A quick 5-minute glance through your available post history (past 300 posts) shows that more than 2/3 of the posts you make involve Quinn. That was just top line looking, seeing if a post was either in a Quinn thread or mentioned Quinn/coaching. 90% of the rest of them were about Andersson or Shesterkin. This isn't some random thing people are bringing up. You barely post about anything else. Your only presence on the board involves just a few topics and the majority is just this one.
JHS
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Right I get it. Half of my posts here though are refuting personal attacks made by a poster who I have on ignore now. Listen, I enjoy discussing coaching and Quinn happens to be the coach. It's not a personal agenda to get him removed from the job. I've said multiple times that I actually want him to be successful. My posts are on his failures and shortcomings because what's the point of posting " He's great," when I don't believe that and it just adds 0 to the conversation. Anyway, I believe the rest of the community here would appreciate if we get back to actual discussions about the coach and the team and not on what individual issues people have here.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
This guy is going to start Georgiev tonight when Shesterkin just continues to win games and don’t be surprised when he blenderizes the lines again puts Kakko on the 4th.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
Is Georgiev confirmed?
I have no problem with him starting either of the three goalies tonight, to be honest.
Shesty is coming off a win where he played well, and he is quickly becoming the goalie of the present, not future.
Georgiev vs. Buffalo should be a showcasing of sorts, and he'd be next in rotation anyway. Shesty never played well enough against Toronto that he should definitely be in there again.
A Lundqvist start would verify that Georgiev is going to be moved soon, while also letting Shesty know that he has to continue earning those starts. He is right on the cusp of taking that starter's spot, but it shouldn't just be handed off without a fight.
I won't be upset, regardless of who plays. I will be pissed if Kakko ends up getting McKegg-type usage though.
Harbour Dog
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Amazing Kreiderman
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Inferno
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It worked really well though.. he took over and started driving that line... Moved up the lineup as a result.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Shattenkirk.. You talking about the same player who only has like 2 assists in the last 13 games or so? Lol
Amazing Kreiderman
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