Confirmed with Link: David Nonis TML GM|Brian Burke Hired as Senior Advisor - II

[Longshot]

No, it doesn't. Those guys played in the NHL, and proved that they weren't ready.

So a young prospect that comes up and isn't ready during his first run in the NHL is a bust and is no good? Okay then.

 

[FelixPotvin29]

If I remember correctly, he said he had several years left on his current deal, which to me means more than two years at the minimum.

Yeah that's kind of what I meant but that's better clarification.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

The point being that while every NHL team has potential NHLers, Burke has significantly improved the quality of ours. Our future is brighter because of him, and we will reap the rewards of his work for years to come.

What? says you. This has yet to be proven....Not a single draft pick of Burke's since being Leaf GM is in the NHL...none. The biggest young player he has acquired is Jake Gardiner who is in the NHL....The rest of them are just names. I keep seeing people list them like it means something. Back in the day weren't they listing....Pogge, Steen, Coliacovo, White, Rask, Stralman etc etc etc...and the beat goes on...

IF in 5 years Kadri is ripping up the NHL and Ashton/Colborne are effective and productive...etc then lets talk about Burke's genius. Isn't it premature to credit somebody for something that hasn't happened yet?

 

[Dangles McGavin]

That 2006 draft was pretty damn good.

 

[BergyWho37]

Rielly, Finn, Biggs, Percy, Kadri, Blacker, D'Amigo, Ross, McKegg, Nilsson, Brown

These guys are the picks that Burke made in 4 drafts. They are all quality picks and have potential (some better then others) to have an impact at the NHL level. I may be forgetting a couple too.

Not too mention Joe Colborne and Jake Gardiner, Ben Scrivens, Tyler Bozak, Jussi Ryannas, Carter Ashton who he brought in through FA/Trades.

Heck Phil Kessel is what? 24? Still crazy young.

To say Brian Burke hasn't helped build this team is nuts

Agreed problem is Toronto fans expecting miracles !!! Give a guy 5 yrs to turn around basically a AHL team into NHL team ... Not try to be harsh but it was BAD and a lot of you need to recognise this including the owners

 

[Duffman955]

These muther****ing corporate ********** are trying to turn Nonis into JFJ. Soon to come is kadri+gardiner+Rielly for Luongo.

Why are they interfering anyway, Burke and Nonis are have nearly the eact same views.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Funny how Nonis never listed Kadri as a building block.

Bye bye Nazim?

Did he list Kessel, JVR or Phaneuf?

 

[Hero]

I really really hope Nonis makes own decisions and doesn't act MLSE puppet.

Secondly, I also hope he doesn't trade away Gardiner or our 1st for Bobby Lu. I'd be pretty saddened if that were to happen.

The hope should be he doesn't trade both of them at once for him.

 

[Woodman19]

Okay, but all of the players drafted and acquired by Ferguson have had twice as much time to establish themselves as those acquired by Burke. All of those guys that are now NHL regulars were drafted by Ferguson seven or eight years ago.

The players acquired by Burke have only been in the Leafs system for two or three years maximum. Let's come back to this thread in two or three years and we probably will be saying the same thing about some of the players brought in by Burke.

The point is: it takes time. When Ferguson left everybody said: "He was terrible. The team is a disaster." (I was one of them!).

Four years later it turns out that Ferguson left behind more players than any of us thought.

The things you're saying about Burke now, today, people were saying about Ferguson when he was fired.

Agreed that it takes time, but it is also true that prospects values are always percieved at its highest closer to their draft day before the warts start to appear in the game. Fergusons prospect pools like Burke's now also had players who were once highly regarded at the time who ended up being busts.

Pogge
Vorobiev
Earl
Rau
Tlusty
Ruegsegger
Mitchell


So if you were to compare 4 years of drafting and the success/bust rate of what was perceived talent it is pretty easy to see that JFJ's front office was better at scouting then Burke although both administrations leave much to be desired with player development.

Once again I am not saying I like Ferguson, simply pointing out that a GM that no one liked looks to be better then Burke at one aspect (important one) of team building.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Okay, but all of the players drafted and acquired by Ferguson have had twice as much time to establish themselves as those acquired by Burke. All of those guys that are now NHL regulars were drafted by Ferguson seven or eight years ago.

The players acquired by Burke have only been in the Leafs system for two or three years maximum. Let's come back to this thread in two or three years and we probably will be saying the same thing about some of the players brought in by Burke.

The point is: it takes time. When Ferguson left everybody said: "He was terrible. The team is a disaster." (I was one of them!).

Four years later it turns out that Ferguson left behind more players than any of us thought.

The things you're saying about Burke now, today, people were saying about Ferguson when he was fired.

People still crap on Ferguson and if anything give Burke the credit for recognizing that guys like Frattin, Gunnarrson, Grabovski, Reimer were worthy of keeping. JFJ gets crucified on this board everyday....not just when he was fired.

 

[Schennanigans]

WTF! this is shocking, now? Doesn't make any sence. Ridiculous if this about Luongo.

 

[Longshot]

So if you were to compare 4 years of drafting and the success/bust rate of what was percieved talent it is pretty easy to see that JFJ's front office was better at scouting then Burke although both administrations leave much to be desired with player development.

I don't think you can make that conclusion. At this point we don't know that the quality of Burke's crop of players is worse than Ferguson's. It's still too early in the process to know for sure.

However, I'm suggesting that there is evidence that there is a strong nucleus of young players on the cusp of coming to the NHL. The Marlies played in the AHL finals last year and are one of the better AHL teams this year. Several of those young players debuted in the NHL last year and might be playing in the league right now if it wasn't for the lock out.

Obviously you disagree, but neither of us know for sure.

 

[CanadianPirate]

I hope that Nonis has the spunk and aggressiveness of Burke, but will also be more modern so that he will allow players to pick their own numbers (even high ones) without stupid arguments, not have an Xmas break, and not have those stupid rules about contracts. If you're good we want you long term, cmon.

Time to get my popcorn ready, we are definitely the center of the hockey universe baby!

He does not have the spunk and aggressiveness of Burke. The Canucks ownership fired him because he was not aggressive enough. However your other points do fit Nonis. He will slightly over pay to keep players and will not have as you say "all those stupid rules about contracts." He is much more easy going than Burke but if you are looking for aggressiveness you will be disappointed.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

McCowan just said Burke used a profanity at a board meeting and was chastised for it- and that board member had an axe to grind. Who knows.

Nevertheless, if it's a personal axe to grind behind the rationale, I'd be pissed. Not because I like Burke but because you don't run a sports franchise like that. That's a joke.

 

[bunjay]

So a young prospect that comes up and isn't ready during his first run in the NHL is a bust and is no good? Okay then.

Neither the word 'bust' nor the phrase 'no good' appeared in my posts. Try again.

 

[Woodman19]

I don't think you can make that conclusion. At this point we don't know that the quality of Burke's crop of players is worse than Ferguson's. It's still too early in the process to know for sure.

However, I'm suggesting that there is evidence that there is a strong nucleus of young players on the cusp of coming to the NHL. The Marlies played in the AHL finals last year and are one of the better AHL teams this year. Several of those young players debuted in the NHL last year and might be playing in the league right now if it wasn't for the lock out.

Obviously you disagree, but neither of us know for sure.

To the point I made a few posts ago, JFJ also had a ton of failed prospects who we all remember who were highly touted so it stands to reason half of Burke's prospects are also going to fail that might look good now.

 

[Longshot]

To the point I made a few posts ago, JFJ also had a ton of failed prospects who we all remember who were highly touted so it stands to reason half of Burke's prospects are also going to fail that might look good now.

As we often say in sports: only time will tell.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Agreed problem is Toronto fans expecting miracles !!! Give a guy 5 yrs to turn around basically a AHL team into NHL team ... Not try to be harsh but it was BAD and a lot of you need to recognise this including the owners

You mean the same AHL team he expected to avoid the lottery picks two years in a row?

 

[Duffman955]

McCowan just said Burke used a profanity at a board meeting and was chastised for it- and that board member had an axe to grind. Who knows.

Nevertheless, if it's a personal axe to grind behind the rationale, I'd be pissed. Not because I like Burke but because you don't run a sports franchise like that. That's a joke.

This is pure gold.

Leafs continue being the laughing stock of North American sports.

 

[Goodwith Sticks]

I haven't read past this page since I left earlier but if anyone is questioning Burke's drafting giving this team a better cupboard than we've had in decades while he was GM that's flat out wrong. And with quality high-picks that are still in the organization or have been turned (ex Schenn to JVR) into assets rather than disappearing into zilch (exTlusty) like has been the result of drafts before Burke took over here.

 

[4evaBlue]

Main reason behind the Burke firing

Purely personal opinions based poll, as very little information is known at this time. What do you think was the main reason behind MLSE board's decision to fire Burke?

I realize some may think there was multiple reasons, just select the most prominent one.

 

[Longshot]

This is pure gold.

Leafs continue being the laughing stock of North American sports.

Reminds me of the story of Steve Stavro crony Brian Bellmore going into the Leafs front office and ordering them to trade Felix Potvin for Patrick Roy and being furious when it didn't happen...

 

[Rare Jewel]

McCowan just said Burke used a profanity at a board meeting and was chastised for it- and that board member had an axe to grind. Who knows.

Nevertheless, if it's a personal axe to grind behind the rationale, I'd be pissed. Not because I like Burke but because you don't run a sports franchise like that. That's a joke.

http://www.mlse.com/inside_mlse/board_of_directors.aspx


Take your pick on who was offended by the profanity

I have my guess.

 

[Longshot]

http://www.mlse.com/inside_mlse/board_of_directors.aspx


Take your pick on who was offended by the profanity

I have my guess.

It's already been reported the George Cope from Bell hated Burke from the first minute and wanted him gone almost immediately.

 

[Longshot]

Purely personal opinions based poll, as very little information is known at this time. What do you think was the main reason behind MLSE board's decision to fire Burke?

I realize some may think there was multiple reasons, just select the most prominent one.

The new suits running the organization want a more "corporate" (pliable) person running the hockey organization.