Rumor: David Jiricek available

[Boxscore]

You do know Byram was 2 years older when he got dealt, right?

Yes, of course. He was also an NHL regular who could skate like the wind, showed flashes of brilliance, and produced darn well with minimum PP time due to Makar and Toews.

I'm not being negative about Jiricek. For a year+ I've insisted the Jackets are mishandling him and are on the verge of ruining him. I like the kid a lot and think Columbus gave him mixed signals and botched the entire situation. But, I also believe they are not dealing from a position of strength and will move him for a decent return... yet far from amazing.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

It would not take Bonk, who's seen his prospect stock rise while Jiricek's has plateaued or declined.

Ah yes, the typical ripe old age of 20 is definitely when defensemens stocks decline or plateau.

 

[Shlep]

This reminds me of Avs fans thinking they would receive the world for Bowen Byram (who was a 4th overall pick and more proven and polished than Jiricek when he was dealt.) Yet they received Mittelstadt for him straight up.

Byram was two years older than Jiricek and his value was lowered because he was injury prone. And he still returned a young center with 47 points in 62 games.

 

[surixon]

It would not take Bonk, who's seen his prospect stock rise while Jiricek's has plateaued or declined.

This reminds me of Avs fans thinking they would receive the world for Bowen Byram (who was a 4th overall pick and more proven and polished than Jiricek when he was dealt.) Yet they received Mittelstadt for him straight up.

Jiricek has been frustrated and Waddell publicly stated that he hasn't shown enough to keep a job on the big club. The kid hasn't been able to crack the lineup of a team that is starved for talent -- not a great sign of his progression.

I don't think the return will be anything close to what some Jackets fans anticipate.

The Flyers offer of Ristolainen, Brink, and Columbus' 2nd in 2025 back is likely the best deal Columbus will get, considering Dreger said tonight that teams are trying to pry Ristolainen from the Flyers, and the Jackets could likely flip him for another 2nd and a decent prospect asap.

The Pens offered their best prospect for McGroarty who wasn't going to sign with the Jets.

If Wadell is smart he holds out for the value he wants. He has the player already signed and under team control. He can afford to let him get his game going in the AHL.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Ah yes, the typical ripe old age of 20 is definitely when defensemens stocks decline or plateau.

I think of Chara and what he was at this age. Similar concerns and did not have Jiricek's puck skills.

I would be very cautious about trading a prospect like this.

 

[Shlep]

The Pens offered their best prospect for McGroarty who wasn't going to sign with the Jets.

If Wadell is smart he holds out for the value he wants. He has the player already signed and under team control. He can afford to let him get his game going in the AHL.

It's weird that we have to go through this every time.

"They won't get full value because teams know he wants out"

That argument lasts exactly until there are two teams that want him. Value continues to go up so long as another team is willing to pay it.

 

[stevo61]

The Pens offered their best prospect for McGroarty who wasn't going to sign with the Jets.

If Wadell is smart he holds out for the value he wants. He has the player already signed and under team control. He can afford to let him get his game going in the AHL.

Or if he's really smart he finds a way to keep him. Whether that's pumping his tires to keep him going or being more of a hardass and reminding them that the team has the control and he'll have to improve his play to either make the big team or to boost his value enough so a trade comes through that benefits the CBJ.

The timing of all this is very poor, later in the season or probably even better yet the offseason would be the time for a deal to happen

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Or if he's really smart he finds a way to keep him. Whether that's pumping his tires to keep him going or being more of a hardass and reminding them that the team has the control and he'll have to improve his play to either make the big team or to boost his value enough so a trade comes through that benefits the CBJ.

The timing of all this is very poor, later in the season or probably even better yet the offseason would be the time for a deal to happen

The message should be the same as it is to Mateychuk really. Sharpen your game and dominate the A, come up when we dump some guys, go back down for a Monsters playoff run, and be ready for the NHL in 2025.

 

[stevo61]

The message should be the same as it is to Mateychuk really. Sharpen your game and dominate the A, come up when we dump some guys, go back down for a Monsters playoff run, and be ready for the NHL in 2025.

Provorov is probably the only one likely to go making a spot for anyone. Not sure if a team takes Johnson for a depth playoff guy or even Harris for that matter. Maybe someone looks at them as very cheap insurance policies or just as likely teams pass on them.

Fabbro could be the other interesting one with Provorov. If they can get him signed great, if not they probably look to move him too I guess

 

[Boxscore]

Provorov is probably the only one likely to go making a spot for anyone. Not sure if a team takes Johnson for a depth playoff guy or even Harris for that matter. Maybe someone looks at them as very cheap insurance policies or just as likely teams pass on them.

Fabbro could be the other interesting one with Provorov. If they can get him signed great, if not they probably look to move him too I guess

The problem is, the Jackets keep plugging their D with journeymen and fringe NHLers. Last year it was Provorov and Severson. Then Johnson, Harris, Fabbro. Every time a slot opens, they fill it with a meh stopgap.

 

[stevo61]

The problem is, the Jackets keep plugging their D with journeymen and fringe NHLers. Last year it was Provorov and Severson. Then Johnson, Harris, Fabbro. Every time a slot opens, they fill it with a meh stopgap.

Well Fabbro would be longterm if he signs. Stopgaps like Harris and Johnson are... well exactly that. They can wipe their hands clean of them at the end of the year or if they really cared enough just waive them. If you are implying they should have left room for all the kids well that's just not smart.

 

[Boxscore]

Well Fabbro would be longterm if he signs. Stopgaps like Harris and Johnson are... well exactly that. They can wipe their hands clean of them at the end of the year or if they really cared enough just waive them. If you are implying they should have left room for all the kids well that's just not smart.

In your opinion, it's not smart, and you're entitled to that opinion. Considering how this Jiricek situation is playing out... and many of us observers read the tea leaves for a year+ ... the Jackets handled this extremely foolish. At least it appears that way until we see the end result with David... either a hefty return or a mended fence and top-4 role sooner rather than later.

 

[stevo61]

In your opinion, it's not smart, and you're entitled to that opinion. Considering how this Jiricek situation is playing out... and many of us observers read the tea leaves for a year+ ... the Jackets handled this extremely foolish. At least it appears that way until we see the end result with David... either a hefty return or a mended fence and top-4 role sooner rather than later.

You get a top 4 spot when you earn it not based on draft position or how much you pout. What actually needs to happen is he and his agent need to recognize his blatant obvious flaws and know that they will take time to fix but are fixable.

He played over 14 minutes a night last year and never did take that next step yet. People were acting last year like he was losing development time getting yoyo'd a day he still played a combined 72 regular season games and 14 AHL playoff games. He and the team tried to work with him to see if he could get up to speed but he can't consistently handle Evason's heavy skating system yet so he got sent where he belongs.

What is your level of outrage over the other top D from that draft?

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

In your opinion, it's not smart, and you're entitled to that opinion. Considering how this Jiricek situation is playing out... and many of us observers read the tea leaves for a year+ ... the Jackets handled this extremely foolish. At least it appears that way until we see the end result with David... either a hefty return or a mended fence and top-4 role sooner rather than later.

I would say that the issue is more a matter of Kekäläinen not formulating his plan, if there ever was such a thing, clearly enough to Jiricek, opening for misunderstandings and unrealistic expectations. I hope that Waddell and Evason have clearly formulated a roadmap for Jiricek to the NHL for next year together with him. That is the sense I got from the press conference and I trust Waddell and Evason to be far more direct and clear in their communication than Kekäläinen was.

 

[TheNumber4]

Jiricek cried cause guys like Korchinski and Nemec were getting NHL minutes and he wasn’t.

Well, now both Korchinski and Nemec are in the AHL where they belong. And probably where Jiricek belongs. Maybe time to wipe those tears and get to work.

Saw this same story play out with Broberg. He demanded he was ready when he most obviously was not. He was sent to the AHL after a trade fiasco, he put his head down and went to work. Dominated the AHL and then the Oilers were confident he could step into the playoffs. And he did so admirably.

These f***tard agents should step back and maybe just let the NHL teams do what they do best. It’s not some conspiracy to keep your agent down. NHL teams want the same thing the agents want, for the player to succeed.

 

[stevo61]

Jiricek cried cause guys like Korchinski and Nemec were getting NHL minutes and he wasn’t.

Well, now both Korchinski and Nemec are in the AHL where they belong. And probably where Jiricek belongs. Maybe time to wipe those tears and get to work.

Saw this same story play out with Broberg. He demanded he was ready when he most obviously was not. He was sent to the AHL after a trade fiasco, he put his head down and went to work. Dominated the AHL and then the Oilers were confident he could step into the playoffs. And he did so admirably.

These f***tard agents should step back and maybe just let the NHL teams do what they do best. It’s not some conspiracy to keep your agent down. NHL teams want the same thing the agents want, for the player to succeed.

It's funny because they try and rush these guys into the league and more often then not damage the players early career earning potential. Yeah you get an NHL pay for a couple extra years but that 2nd deal is going to be a small bridge at most.

Like you say, it's obviously in Columbus' best interest for their former 6th overall 6'4" RHD to reach his potential

 

[TheNumber4]

It's funny because they try and rush these guys into the league and more often then not damage the players early career earning potential. Yeah you get an NHL pay for a couple extra years but that 2nd deal is going to be a small bridge at most.

Like you say, it's obviously in Columbus' best interest for their former 6th overall 6'4" RHD to reach his potential

Seen that story play out with Puljuujarvi too. Agent kept pushing for him to be in the NHL, to be on the f***in best PP the league has seen in years. He kept pushing him and he saw nothing but hip injuries and inconsistency in his game.

There’s no cheating the NHL. You’ll either be good enough or you won’t. Can’t force it.

 

[Boxscore]

You get a top 4 spot when you earn it not based on draft position or how much you pout. What actually needs to happen is he and his agent need to recognize his blatant obvious flaws and know that they will take time to fix but are fixable.

He played over 14 minutes a night last year and never did take that next step yet. People were acting last year like he was losing development time getting yoyo'd a day he still played a combined 72 regular season games and 14 AHL playoff games. He and the team tried to work with him to see if he could get up to speed but he can't consistently handle Evason's heavy skating system yet so he got sent where he belongs.

What is your level of outrage over the other top D from that draft?

Well, plenty to unpack here, but...

Let's start with the flaws you mentioned. As a rookie, Jiricek looked outstanding in camp and preseason. He flirted with making the jump from the onset. At that point, he appeared more raw than flawed, no?

Last year, he was basically promised a spot... told to get a place... then was sent down because he didn't set the world on fire. Imho, that was the beginning of the problems. This season, he was considered a slam dunk to make the club by all indications, and here we are again.

This begs the question:

Is he truly flawed, or are the Jackets expectations unreasonable, considering they refuse to extend him a leash so he can scrape his knees and learn on the big stage? If his flaws are that abhorrent, then the Jackets, the player, or both haven't done a good enough job with his development. Or, he's mentally frustrated with the team and is playing on eggshells. Either way, this doesn't elevate his trade value... if anything, it gives other teams pause, as a potential deal comes with plenty of risk.

I feel Jiricek doesn't trust the team anymore and it's now between his ears. I also think the Jackets need to shoulder a good portion of the blame for the mixed signals and constant yo-yoing. Of course, this is just my opinion.

As for the other D in the draft...

Mintyukov is playing huge minutes and thriving in Anaheim. Last season they committed to him, gave him a leash, and let him grind his teeth and make mistakes in the NHL. This year, he is thriving, even though he's far from a polished gem.

Korchinski... I feel similarly as I do with Jiricek. I think the Hawks should give this kid a shot and let him learn in the NHL. The Hawks are a mess, are in the process of a rebuild, and their prospects won't be perfect. Heck, Bedard is struggling big-time! It happens... but let the kids play.

Nemec is the head-scratcher for me. Personally, I thought Jiricek was the better player on draft day and I still believe he could end up better... but things need to reverse course immediately. I feel the Devils should be leaning on him but, to their credit, they entrusted Luke Hughes and are giving him the chance to thrive. So they are at least giving one of their young studs on D a chance... which is more than the Jackets are doing, considering both Jiricek and Mateychuk are marinating in the minors.

Mateychuk is in the same boat as Jiricek... imho, he should be playing in the NHL.

Bischel... I didn't, and don't, think he's as talented as Jiricek and Mateychuk, so I'm not surprised he's in waiting. But it's apples and oranges since the Stars have two young D studs carrying the load in Heiskanen and Harley... the same cannot be said about Columbus. Outside of Werenski, there isn't a D-man on Columbus who would be roadblocking Jiricek or Mateychuk from earning minutes... certainly not filler like Johnson and Harris.

So my "outrage" (which is far from it... it's just my opinion) with Jiricek stems from the perfect storm that has occurred with him in Columbus...

High draft pick, check.
Good size and skill, check.
In the system of a team starved for talent, check.
Growing pains are no threat to playoff contention, check.
Given mixed signals by the previous GM, check.
Continuous yo-yo-ing with no true plan, check.
GM publicly stated he hasn't shown enough to earn a job (on a bottom-level team), check.
Rumored to be traded imminently, check.

 

[TheNumber4]

Well, plenty to unpack here, but...

Let's start with the flaws you mentioned. As a rookie, Jiricek looked outstanding in camp and preseason. He flirted with making the jump from the onset. At that point, he appeared more raw than flawed, no?

Last year, he was basically promised a spot... told to get a place... then was sent down because he didn't set the world on fire. Imho, that was the beginning of the problems. This season, he was considered a slam dunk to make the club by all indications, and here we are again.

This begs the question:

Is he truly flawed, or are the Jackets expectations unreasonable, considering they refuse to extend him a leash so he can scrape his knees and learn on the big stage? If his flaws are that abhorrent, then the Jackets, the player, or both haven't done a good enough job with his development. Or, he's mentally frustrated with the team and is playing on eggshells. Either way, this doesn't elevate his trade value... if anything, it gives other teams pause, as a potential deal comes with plenty of risk.

I feel Jiricek doesn't trust the team anymore and it's now between his ears. I also think the Jackets need to shoulder a good portion of the blame for the mixed signals and constant yo-yoing. Of course, this is just my opinion.

As for the other D in the draft...

Mintyukov is playing huge minutes and thriving in Anaheim. Last season they committed to him, gave him a leash, and let him grind his teeth and make mistakes in the NHL. This year, he is thriving, even though he's far from a polished gem.

Korchinski... I feel similarly as I do with Jiricek. I think the Hawks should give this kid a shot and let him learn in the NHL. The Hawks are a mess, are in the process of a rebuild, and their prospects won't be perfect. Heck, Bedard is struggling big-time! It happens... but let the kids play.

Nemec is the head-scratcher for me. Personally, I thought Jiricek was the better player on draft day and I still believe he could end up better... but things need to reverse course immediately. I feel the Devils should be leaning on him but, to their credit, they entrusted Luke Hughes and are giving him the chance to thrive. So they are at least giving one of their young studs on D a chance... which is more than the Jackets are doing, considering both Jiricek and Mateychuk are marinating in the minors.

Mateychuk is in the same boat as Jiricek... imho, he should be playing in the NHL.

Bischel... I didn't, and don't, think he's as talented as Jiricek and Mateychuk, so I'm not surprised he's in waiting. But it's apples and oranges since the Stars have two young D studs carrying the load in Heiskanen and Harley... the same cannot be said about Columbus. Outside of Werenski, there isn't a D-man on Columbus who would be roadblocking Jiricek or Mateychuk from earning minutes... certainly not filler like Johnson and Harris.

So my "outrage" (which is far from it... it's just my opinion) with Jiricek stems from the perfect storm that has occurred with him in Columbus...

High draft pick, check.
Good size and skill, check.
In the system of a team starved for talent, check.
Growing pains are no threat to playoff contention, check.
Given mixed signals by the previous GM, check.
Continuous yo-yo-ing with no true plan, check.
GM publicly stated he hasn't shown enough to earn a job (on a bottom-level team), check.
Rumored to be traded imminently, check.

I haven’t followed the player until he became “available”. But if you were to ask me what his flaw is, he needs explosiveness in his first step. While he moves pretty damn well for a big guy in terms of agility, when he wants to build speed he looks stuck in the mud with his choppy strides. With the type of game he wants to play, jumping into the offensive zone and making plays, that explosiveness will come in handy and make him all the better for it. If he skips the AHL development path, maybe he plataeus without ever addressing that issue in his game.

 

[Boxscore]

I haven’t followed the player until he became “available”. But if you were to ask me what his flaw is, he needs explosiveness in his first step. While he moves pretty damn well for a big guy in terms of agility, when he wants to build speed he looks stuck in the mud with his choppy strides. With the type of game he wants to play, jumping into the offensive zone and making plays, that explosiveness will come in handy and make him all the better for it. If he skips the AHL development path, maybe he plataeus without ever addressing that issue in his game.

I mean, sure, but are we overthinking it? Pronger, Blake, Chara, and Weber never developed an explosive first step... and they are all going into the HHOF. Actually, Jiricek stylistically reminds me a little of a young Pronger who looked like Bambi on skates due to his thin, lanky frame and clumsiness as a puppy.

I think good players end up finding a way to adapt and thrive in the NHL even with their shortcomings... but they need to be given a chance without feeling like the floor is going to fall out from under them if they make a mistake or don't play a flawless game at age 20.

Once Jiricek gets a feel for NHL competition, he'll learn to compensate. Robitaille, Hull, and Pavelski weren't great skaters and yet they used their other high-end skills to make up for it... and excel to greatness.

My issue is that the Jackets seem to hold Jiricek and Mateychuk to unrealistic standards while they have zero problem icing flotsam and jetsam like Johnson and Harris on a nightly basis... or playing the wire for guys like Fabbro. As an organization, the Jackets have never been great, and they don't have a stellar track record of developing high-end talent... but they refuse to give talents like Jiricek and Mateychuk a chance. You'd think they were the mighty Red Wings with Lidstrom, Vladdy, Coffey, Ward, and Chelios hogging up minutes.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

He was angry when Jarmo told him to get a place only to send him down. He had every right to be. Plenty of young guys have been in and out of line ups. He just went to the ahl with no complaints.

Where's the disagreement or tension? Be specific please.

Last year weren’t there a bunch of comments either from him or his agent about how his peers were in the nhl playing and that he wasn’t, but that he felt he should be?

He ultimately reported to the AHL but clearly there were some hard feelings there

 

[TheNumber4]

I mean, sure, but are we overthinking it? Pronger, Blake, Chara, and Weber never developed an explosive first step... and they are all going into the HHOF. Actually, Jiricek stylistically reminds me a little of a young Pronger who looked like Bambi on skates due to his thin, lanky frame and clumsiness as a puppy.

I think good players end up finding a way to adapt and thrive in the NHL even with their shortcomings... but they need to be given a chance without feeling like the floor is going to fall out from under them if they make a mistake or don't play a flawless game at age 20.

Once Jiricek gets a feel for NHL competition, he'll learn to compensate. Robitaille, Hull, and Pavelski weren't great skaters and yet they used their other high-end skills to make up for it... and excel to greatness.

My issue is that the Jackets seem to hold Jiricek and Mateychuk to unrealistic standards while they have zero problem icing flotsam and jetsam like Johnson and Harris on a nightly basis... or playing the wire for guys like Fabbro. As an organization, the Jackets have never been great, and they don't have a stellar track record of developing high-end talent... but they refuse to give talents like Jiricek and Mateychuk a chance. You'd think they were the mighty Red Wings with Lidstrom, Vladdy, Coffey, Ward, and Chelios hogging up minutes.

Maybe. I’m just going off the defenceman this Jiricek is supposed to be. Someone that jumps into plays and does his best work with the puck on his stick. I’m not sure if those comps were the same type, a lot of those guys had some of the best hockey IQ in the game, and still took lots of time and experience to develop it.

For the Bluejackets, I think we can agree they don’t want their top 10 pick to fail. Whatever they are wanting him to do, should be only for his best which translates into the best for his team. If they think he’s best served working on parts of his game in the AHL, I’m inclined to agree. Cause the other side of that coin is an inexperienced player and a profit motivated agent which I’ve seen more often than not hurt the player than help them.

 

[Wonderful Tacos]

The Pens offered their best prospect for McGroarty who wasn't going to sign with the Jets.

If Wadell is smart he holds out for the value he wants. He has the player already signed and under team control. He can afford to let him get his game going in the AHL.

One of the many details you donkeys typically ignore is that the player has an agent, who in this case is Allan Walsh of Octagon Sports which is an agency that negotiates for a whole lot of high end talent in the NHL. If your team is trying to sign a free agent to a ufa contract, a blue chip to his elc, or maybe even one of your rfas to an extention - theres a decent chance their representation is Octagon.

Now its not like octagon can do business longterm by screwing with teams over every player but theyre sure going to be willing to step up the pressure and perhaps levy some threats for a top ten blue chip RD like Jiricek who is nearly guaranteed to earn extreme $$$$$ over his career for them.

 

[tiburon12]

General Q - Does Waddell have any history of drafting/developing defenseman? I cant think of one defenseman from his tenure in Carolina that the drafted and developed (Pesce and Slavin drafted and debuted before Waddell was GM).

If that's the case, can we trust his ability to evaluate D talent?

 

[Fjordy]

General Q - Does Waddell have any history of drafting/developing defenseman? I cant think of one defenseman from his tenure in Carolina that the drafted and developed (Pesce and Slavin drafted and debuted before Waddell was GM).

If that's the case, can we trust his ability to evaluate D talent?

Well, he chose Nikishin, Morrow, but they are not there yet.