David Desharnais - Part V - Lovely Player Edition

[Rosso Scuderia]

Like I said, ( I know a lot of better players with similar stats at the moment )

it was only to show that the early stats don't matter really much...

lol another excuse YAY!

Bottom line, DD doesn't need to score, because he's not a goal scorer, he doesn't need to produce because stats are irrelevant. Gotcha.

But of course, early stats doesn't really matter when it comes to DD right? Because I remember you using stats to bash Eller. Now that Eller's closing the gap, of course it's not that important anymore.

 

[Mathletic]

So Eller would be at around 40 ES points in Desharnais's role and suddenly the case for Desharnais being the better offensive option doesn't look so good anymore.

I never argued that Desharnais was much better than Eller. All I argued was that the Ozone start% is vastly overrated and doesn't have nearly the impact people say it does. I'm perfectly fine with shuffling lines also. Just saying that the goal of the Habs isn't to make Eller produce more points, their goal is to maximize the production they can get from their roster. In the first post I replied to, the person was asking if there was anything to lose by placing Galchenyuk at center. I said yes and given Eller's skills and Desharnais' skills they're probably better off that way. Strictly from a goals for perspective. Sure Eller might score more points on your first line but if DD ends up being a lot less productive on the third line because he can't exploit his vision nearly as much and Eller maybe not as productive as DD because he doesn't have the same vision to feed Pacioretty, then the Habs are losing in this. Not saying that's what will happen, nothing against trying various lines. Just saying that the whole is more important than just improving Eller's numbers or giving Galchenyuk more reps at center and I doubt the Habs are better off by simply eliminating DD of the equation.

 

[Bob b smith]

I never said he is great, but he's not atrocious and ultra-solf like you call him, he have a huge heart, play well in the system, he don't play 19 mins a game like a real number 1 and he's only paid 3,5m/year... at the moment he is the better option to play with Pacc, to replace him with a rookie that is not mature enough to play right in a defensive system is not a good idea especially when you know that it would create an hole on the left wing.

I agree that he has a huge heart and plays well in the system.... However he's not an option for a number 1. He shouldn't be there... He is not a better option than anyone else. Doesn't matter who's available or not. DD=not option.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Look at the centers of those team, I answer what you asked for.................

and DD is 2 pts behind Patrick Kane, lolll it is ridiculous to judge a player with only a few game played, it bias your judgement so much..............

So DD is comparable to the worst top 1 centers in the league? Ok.. so that means he didn't do his job. Glad we agree on that.

 

[Chacal667]

I agree that he has a huge heart and plays well in the system.... However he's not an option for a number 1. He shouldn't be there... He is not a better option than anyone else. Doesn't matter who's available or not. DD=not option.

he don't play like a number 1.......... the toi is not comparable to a real number 1, and the options are nonexistent

 

[Chacal667]

So DD is comparable to the worst top 1 centers in the league? Ok.. so that means he didn't do his job. Glad we agree on that.

worst ? look at who play centers in the teams I showed you.....

and DD don't play like a number 1..... the toi prove it.

 

[Bob b smith]

he don't play like a number 1.......... the toi is not comparable to a real number 1, and the options are nonexistent

If you include DD in the nonexistent options, you might have an argument. Then that means DD needs to be replaced right now with a temporary or long-term solution via a trade.... He can't spend any more time at number 1 C. We know what he can bring. It doesn't work anymore. Time to move on now.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

he don't play like a number 1.......... the toi is not comparable to a real number 1, and the options are nonexistent

...you're as bad at defending DD as he is as our #1 centre; inconsistent at best and downright terrible most of the time...

 

[Chacal667]

If you include DD in the nonexistent options, you might have an argument. Then that means DD needs to be replaced right now with a temporary or long-term solution via a trade.... He can't spend any more time at number 1 C. We know what he can bring. It doesn't work anymore. Time to move on now.

if you can trade for an upgrade ok but if not to get rid of DD for nothing will hurt us more then it will help.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

worst ? look at who play centers in the teams I showed you.....

and DD don't play like a number 1..... the toi prove it.

The wingers don't. The PP don't.

He shares the first line duty with Plekanec. Stop denying it. He still get to play with the 35g scorer. He has all the offensive luxury. We can't give him more than what we are giving him right now.

And the centers you named are bottom team centers except Kopitar.. Are you really surprised that bottom team centers doesn't have more points than DD?

 

[Chacal667]

...you're as bad at defending DD as he is as our #1 centre; inconsistent at best and downright terrible most of the time...

I'm done talking with you at least Rosso Scuderia, Kriss even Lafleur Guy have some things to defend their points instead of just, DD suck because he suck...

 

[Bob b smith]

if you can trade for an upgrade ok but if not to get rid of DD for nothing will hurt us more then it will help.

Of course we're trading for an upgrade... And he's playing so bad, we don't even need to give up much for an upgrade.

 

[Kriss E]

he don't play like a number 1.......... the toi is not comparable to a real number 1, and the options are nonexistent

He is used as the go-to offensive center. There is no debate over this.
And we have other options, 3 to be exact. Two of them have never been tried in DD's role.

 

[Chacal667]

Of course we're trading for an upgrade... And he's playing so bad, we don't even need to give up much for an upgrade.

whatever, I have to go now, have a good day

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I'm done talking with you at least Rosso Scuderia, Kriss even Lafleur Guy have some things to defend their points instead of just, DD suck because he suck...

...no, you're done talking to me cuz I've pointed out ad naseum through stats and visuals that DD is our most ineffective C and one of the worst #1's in the League...you have nothing but your love for him and "a gut feeling he's going to be better"...


...have fun in the round room searching for a corner...

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

he don't play like a number 1.......... the toi is not comparable to a real number 1, and the options are nonexistent

I don't know why you keep saying this.

We DO have other options. Let's not pretend like we can't live without DD and no one can replace him and his production.

You say Galchenyuk can't replace DD because he's not good enough defensively. So let's place Plekanec there, he is better than DD offensively, at least production wise, and he's mile ahead of DD defensively. So why isn't Plekanec a better option?

Plekanec can be a better option
Galchenyuk can be a better option. Maybe he's not as good defensively as DD yet but I bet he will learn, like DD did, but at least, Galchenyuk is a much more better offensively than DD. It will gives the line another scoring threat and not only focused on one single player which make the line much more unpredictable.
Even Eller can be a good option TO REPLACE DD production. Not saying Eller is a good option at being 1st center but I'm just saying Eller can produce 50pts per season centering our 2 best wingers, with PP like DD does. At least Eller is bigger, more physical, slightly better defensively and also a better scorer.


All 3 of our centers can produce as much/more than DD while bringing other elements to the game.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

This place is going to be boring once the 3 or 4 remaining DD lovers see the light

 

[Bob b smith]

whatever, I have to go now, have a good day

Have a good day... Parting Brain-Teaser:

Who centers the next 1st PP:

a) Potential Future Franchise Center?
b) Center that's scored 5 goals?
c) Center that's scored 3 goals?
d) Center that's scored 1 goal?
d) One of the 96 NHL Center trade options with more than 1 goal?

 

[Sorinth]

I never argued that Desharnais was much better than Eller. All I argued was that the Ozone start% is vastly overrated and doesn't have nearly the impact people say it does.

Was anybody claiming it was a huge amount of points? I've harped on Desharnais's o-zone starts quite often and always figured it was about 3-5 points over a season. Sure it doesn't sound like a lot, but the reason it takes such importance in the discussions is because these discussions are always about one player vs the other. So if one player is put in a situation where he should get 3-5 more points it is a pretty big deal. Like I said it's the difference between Desharnais outproducing Eller and being outproduced by him. So whether it's a 3 point swing or a 15 point swing, it's a pretty big deal when comparing production.

 

[Joannie9]

This place is going to be boring once the 3 or 4 remaining DD lovers see the light

There are no DD lovers. Just DD haters and some people taking on the devil's advocate role.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

There are no DD lovers. Just DD haters and some people taking on the devil's advocate role.

There's some DD supporters here. People who say DD is our best center, that we have better options, that none of our centers can't replace him, denying that he's our first go-to center are DD supporters. There's also the one that said DD should have been an Olympian for Team Canada in Sochi... but he's a bit of a fanboy

No doubt there's some haters.. but most of us don't like DD being used in such big role while giving little results. Nothing against the player itself because most of us can see he is a good hockey player, not just good enough as a first offensive center.. of a team that wants to win the cup.

 

[Kriss E]

There are no DD lovers. Just DD haters and some people taking on the devil's advocate role.

Good one. People call some haters because they're saying 50ish pts is not good enough for his role.

 

[Team_Spirit]

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

There are no DD lovers. Just DD haters and some people taking on the devil's advocate role.

...noone here hates DD (well, except Pyretta), we hate how he's being used and being repeatedly told that he has to be our #1C because there are no better options, even when all the stats and visuals prove otherwise...

 

[Bob b smith]

There's some DD supporters here. People who say DD is our best center, that we have better options, that none of our centers can't replace him, denying that he's our first go-to center are DD supporters. There's also the one that said DD should have been an Olympian for Team Canada in Sochi... but he's a bit of a fanboy

No doubt there's some haters.. but most of us don't like DD being used in such big role while giving little results. Nothing against the player itself because most of us can see he is a good hockey player, not just good enough as a first offensive center.. of a team that wants to win the cup.

If thinking DD shouldn't be number 1 Center for another game in Montreal equals being a hater, than I'm a hater... On the other hand, I don't want him off the team if we can make him work in some capacity on the 2nd or 3rd line. So maybe I'm a lover?

I'm tired of the protection he's getting. For example, his second RDS star when he doesn't put up a point and is the only one that flubs his SO (the thing he's most useful for)... On the other hand, I don't feel he deserves to be bashed for underperforming because he's not. It's MT and/or MB's fault. They know he can't give more yet he's kept in that capacity...

If there's a flattering parrallel to make... It's Messier in Vancouver. He's one of the most hated players ever in Vancouver... Yet he's a HOF and a great player... But his best years were behind him and he was put in a position that he could never succeed in. Fans started hating (and still hate) the player instead of blaming management who put him there and kept putting him there.