Dave Babych for Ray Neufeld

[crobro]

why did this trade happen?

Dave Babych was playing elite level

 

[The Panther]

I have no idea, but I'll just throw out there that Dave Babych was a really, really poor defensive defenseman. Like, one of the worst I've ever seen.

 

[crobro]

Then you never saw Tom Kurvers play

 

[sr edler]

I have no idea, but I'll just throw out there that Dave Babych was a really, really poor defensive defenseman. Like, one of the worst I've ever seen.

Worse than Housley?

And, by the way, not later on in Vancouver, where he (Babych) was pretty solid on the D. He did a defenseman version of Yzerman.

 

[ted2019]

Paul Coffey at the end of his career was basically a PP specialist.

 

[DannyGallivan]

why did this trade happen?

Dave Babych was playing elite level

John Ferguson was always resentful of Babych for not being a physical enforcer. Babych was the strongest player in the NHL, but he played like a big piece of puffed wheat on skates. I saw him get angry once and pummel some poor schmuck for about a second and a half. Fergy thought that was the bill of goods he drafted. He was very upset when Babych became more of a Ghandi than a Godzilla. Fergy coveted Babych over all others, and thought he would be Barry Beck, except more talented.

And as far as Neufeld was concerned...well, they didn't call him stone-hands for nothing. He may have been big, but he was slow and couldn't find the back of the net with a compass. He had about five 20-plus goal seasons in a row, but when he was in Winnipeg they expected him to be a 30-40 goal power forward. He wasn't.

 

[Hoser]

Even at the time it was a mystery, and pundits from the outside looking in called it a terrible trade.

SI had an article a couple weeks after: "Was this deal necessary? Winnipeg unloaded Dave Babych, and nobody can figure out why"

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Not much of a mystery: Fergie was the NHL's first power forward fetishist, and he overvalued Neufeld because of his size and grit. I think Ferguson imagined him as a bigger version of Paul MacLean, skating alongside Hawerchuk. He also overvalued guys like Andrew McBain and Iain Duncan, both of whom he hoped would turn into someone like Cam Neely, and at one point traded for Perry Turnbull. None of these guys met with his lofty expectations.

 

[tony d]

Don't know, from what I can recall Babych was a good top pairing defenseman, Neufeld was a bottom 6 guy. Seems like a lopsided trade to me.

 

[BobbyAwe]

John Ferguson was always resentful of Babych for not being a physical enforcer. Babych was the strongest player in the NHL, but he played like a big piece of puffed wheat on skates. I saw him get angry once and pummel some poor schmuck for about a second and a half. Fergy thought that was the bill of goods he drafted. He was very upset when Babych became more of a Ghandi than a Godzilla. Fergy coveted Babych over all others, and thought he would be Barry Beck, except more talented.

And as far as Neufeld was concerned...well, they didn't call him stone-hands for nothing. He may have been big, but he was slow and couldn't find the back of the net with a compass. He had about five 20-plus goal seasons in a row, but when he was in Winnipeg they expected him to be a 30-40 goal power forward. He wasn't.

"More Ghandi than Godzilla" - good one

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I have no idea, but I'll just throw out there that Dave Babych was a really, really poor defensive defenseman. Like, one of the worst I've ever seen.

In Hartford, it was more like he was a really, really lazy defensive defenseman.

His nickname in Hartford was "Baggage". One of those guys that could be seen as addition by subtraction when he was dealt.

 

[The Panther]

In Hartford, it was more like he was a really, really lazy defensive defenseman.

His nickname in Hartford was "Baggage". One of those guys that could be seen as addition by subtraction when he was dealt.

I was thinking more of his Winnipeg and Vancouver periods, which is when I saw him play more.

He certainly had an NHL toolbox, but he was just incredibly soft.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

in vancouver he was one half of the strongest toughest most dependable defense pair we ever had, with gerald diduck

 

[The Panther]

in vancouver he was one half of the strongest toughest most dependable defense pair we ever had, with gerald diduck

Not sure if serious..?

 

[Doctor No]

Not sure if serious..?

If he was joking, then I'll say it seriously.

Dave Babych was solid defensively for the Canucks in the Cup run era.

 

[Canadiens1958]

If he was joking, then I'll say it seriously.

Dave Babych was solid defensively for the Canucks in the Cup run era.

Allowed to play his game, Dave Babych was a solid and reliable defenceman. Out of his comfort zone his play suffered.

 

[Doctor No]

That 1994 team didn't really have a lot of other defensive defenseman options - off the top of my head, our other top five defensemen were Jeff Brown, Dana Murzyn, Jiri Slegr and Jeff Brown. Murzyn's the only other one I'd qualify to regularly kill penalties reliably.

 

[sr edler]

If you watch some Pavel Bure highlight videos on YT there are most always a couple of instances where Bure celebrates goals by jumping into the welcoming arms of a smiling happy Babych.

 

[FerrisRox]

why did this trade happen?

Dave Babych was playing elite level

First and foremost - it wasn't an even trade and even Ray Neufeld himself said if he was a General Manager, he wouldn't have made that trade.

That being said, a few thoughts...

First of all, there was nothing "elite" about Dave Babych's defensive play. He was truly awful defensively at this point in his career.

Secondly, the Jets were a very soft team, particularly up front, and Ray Neufeld, at the time of the deal, was a banging physical winger who was producing 25+ goal seasons and 60 points.

What wasn't known at the time of the deal was he was a recovering alcoholic who was only a couple of months sober and the stress of the trade added more pressure to a guy who was already carrying a fair amount of it.

After his first season, where he produced at the aforementioned levels even after the trade, his role changed under Dan Maloney. Neufeld got pushed down the lineup and was more of a grinder. After Andrew McBain blossomed, it became even harder for Neufeld to get paired with Ducky or Steen and his numbers fell off.

 

[FerrisRox]

And, by the way, not later on in Vancouver, where he (Babych) was pretty solid on the D. He did a defenseman version of Yzerman.

He got much better later in his career, but he was never "pretty solid" defensively.

 

[FerrisRox]

Don't know, from what I can recall Babych was a good top pairing defenseman, Neufeld was a bottom 6 guy. Seems like a lopsided trade to me.

Neufeld was not a bottom six guy. He was riding shotgun with Ron Francis on the first line in Hartford.

 

[sr edler]

He got much better later in his career, but he was never "pretty solid" defensively.

"Pretty solid" is a quite broad term/definition. No ones pretending he suddenly became a world beater defensively.

 

[FerrisRox]

"Pretty solid" is a quite broad term/definition. No ones pretending he suddenly became a world beater defensively.

Well I'm flat-out saying he wasn't "pretty solid" defensively.

 

[sr edler]

Well I'm flat-out saying he wasn't "pretty solid" defensively.

Well, you're allowed to do that.

 

[MS]

He got much better later in his career, but he was never "pretty solid" defensively.

He was absolutely, unequivocally a solid defensive defender during his Vancouver period. To argue otherwise is just wrong.