Olympics: Datsyuk says this medal means more than the Stanley Cup
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VictorLustig
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- Feb 8, 2012
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Seriously? Poulin very likely makes more than 100k per year playing hockey, in what world is that semi professional?
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Castle8130
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- May 9, 2017
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Nah, I don't think I'm missing the point. It is the point that all teams are hurt by the nhl not being able to compete in the Olympics (some more than others). Russia may have had some players in the khl, but Canada still had some talent to pick out of the ahl and retired nhl players. Maybe it's a little in Russias favor, but Canada has had a clear advantage in terms of ability to produce talent. They have been a favorite almost every year for every type of hockey event. The difference in skill between Russia and Canada with nhlers is the same difference of Russia and Canada without nhlers.
The Olympic gold has plenty of meaning without nhlers even if Russia is the favorite this time.
Is the championship of the toughest hockey tournament the most prestigious? That is what I am basing it on. I guess you would be correct that there could be different definitions of what prestigious is but to me the football world cup is obviously the most prestigious football tournament that there is because of the level of play and the history and that is also how I view the Stanley cup. I think it is obviously the most prestigious hockey tournament, it has been around longer than the Olympic hockey tournament, it has the best players and the highest skill level. That is different than saying it is more important to someone or should be more important. What is important to someone may not be more important to someone else but what was an amateur tournament up until 1998 while the Stanley cup has been the championship for professional hockey since 1893 really seems like an obvious call on what is more prestigious when the Olympics do not have the NHL players playing in it.
Fantomas
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- Aug 7, 2012
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McSpecial DraiBlend
Registered User
I know,
It's unbelievably arrogant to think that it means as much in Russia as it does in Minneapolis,
To most of these guys the Wold's and a Gold Medal are above the Cup
robertmac43
Forever 43!
- Mar 31, 2015
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I understand where the guy is coming from. When he brings a Stanley Cup back to Detroit, he is bringing joy and success to the fans of the Red Wings. A city which he has no connection to other than the fact that he is employed there. When he wins Gold he is bringing it back to his home country, the place which he has his roots in and a deep connection too. Obviously Datsyuk would have loves his Cup celebrations but it was still a place where his main connection was employment.
Not sure if its 100 % true, not in Sweden. Maybe the Swedish hockey fans follow the National team more than som random NA city's team, thats only natural. But the players from Sweden plays for themselves first and foremost, and also the NHL got a high rate of following and status among hockeyfans and hockeyexperts.
Remember that Russia and the democratic Europe is quite different.
If you base it on level of play the Champions League have better teams than the World Cup. The best CL teams have the best players from the National teams and they play with each other weekly so they play way better together. Thats a difference between football(Soccer) and Hockey(And other American sports) that the best club teams are better than the national teams because there are no salary cap to follow. While the starpower of team Canada or USA for example would be way to much for a NHL team. UEFA at least have made some rules that clubs cant spend much more than is earned through revenue(Without the owners money).
Anyways it depends on how nationalistic people are. I can understand that winning the Olympics with Russia is more important for Russians while for most US and Canadians their national leauge means more than their national team. If Russia had its own league with the same level of NHL that the players grew up watching then the KHL might mean as much for a Russian as the Stanley Cup.
I was only commenting on what was said about the Stanley cup not being the most prestigious championship in hockey. Even if the KHL was as good as the NHL, the Stanley cup would be the more prestigious championship because it has been given to the champion of professional hockey since 1893. The Olympics have been open to professional hockey players 4 times before this year, 125 years of history as the championship of professional hockey vs 4 years of a tournament that featured the best players from each country. Which is more prestigious? It seems obvious to me.
If the KHL became as good as the NHL I would be all for having the Stanley cup championship being the champion of the NHL vs the champion of the KHL, that is how it should be in my opinion.
HasbeenHallzy
Registered User
powerstuck
Nordiques Hopes Lies
I agree.
People disregard that over a 10 to 15 year career in NHL, statistically, you have a chance at winning the cup every single year.
Olympics are every 4 years. So over same career length, you have 3, maybe 4 chances if lucky.
Heck, the Memorial Cup in the CHL is the hardest trophy to win in the hockey world. Why ? Because you are eligible only between ages of 16 and 20. Most often than not, when talented you only play 3 or even 2 seasons (à la Crosby who got in the league at 18). Add in the factor that you compete for 4 slots in 30 years of 20+teams each...
No one is saying people are sad because they won the Stanley Cup. But ask any football player to rank winning a world cup, winning a gold medal and winning their league championship...what they view as biggest accomplishment. They will all be happy to win La Ligua or the Premier League, but they will be twice happier to win the World cup for their country.
powerstuck
Nordiques Hopes Lies
I would ask to ban all Europeans but also all Americans. Hockey and the Stanley Cup were originated in Canada and they should belong here only. By Canadians for Canadians.
Is this how it works ?
bur and 666 others
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- Jun 13, 2012
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I am pretty sure your estimates are very optimistic. I've lived in both East and West Costs of US, traveled thoroughly many states, worked in different areas: finance, health, technology, politics, corporate, government, startups, middle-size companies. My observations are there have been less than 5% of hockey fans, maybe 5% during the playoffs when a local team starts winning. Not many even casual fans. Sorry but Americans do not care about hockey and Stanley Cup particular and I've worked in white collar fields where % of hockey fans are higher than in other areas.
On other hand, if Americans won the Olympic gold, I'm pretty sure more than half of the US population would have felt the national pride and be happy. Would Americans have felt less pride knowing that the NHL didn't participate? Absolutely no, see 1980 which went down as one of the most prideful moments in the US history.
In conclusion, I want to offer my personal story to highlight your arrogance about the Stanley Cup being the most prestigious team award in hockey. I'm Russian who moved to US more than 10 years ago. It took me more than 5 years living in the US (I started following the NHL before I moved to the US) to believe that Stanley Cup > World Championship and I was a vivid NHL fan! I still value Olympic Gold slightly higher than Stanley Cup.
With that being said, do I believe that Russia > Canada/Sweden/US and etc in hockey as a Nation? Absolutely not! Reading the Russian news that praise the coaching and hockey federation makes me sad, because I do believe we need to make dramatic changes in the federation and coaching. It's not efficient nor effective, spending so much resources to barely beat Germany is a joke. I'm afraid winning the gold rendered a disservice and there won't be changes in order to progress as a nation in hockey. Though I'm still happy that we won the Olympics.
edog37
Registered User
It is multitudes harder to win the Cup. 82 game regular season & then 4 Best of 7 rounds is far more difficult than a 2 week tournament.
You describe it from position of neutral hockey expert. Olympics are global brand known to everybody all over the world. If you sit ordinary euro fan to NHL game, he wouldnt really identify himself with anything except hockey quality. So if you ask him what is more prestigious for him, he would tell you, "if I dont consider what I like and prefer, its NHL". But you have to somehow push him into it. The history also doesnt really mean everything with all that new NHL clubs.
So, strictly in rational way, everybody should tell you SC, but it can happen in real that everybody would tell you its OGs only because of they dont have to adapt to culture.
League comparisons are more appropriate and sure SC is winning all the way here and this will never change.
But to be honest SC is not OGs competitor as they dont clash in schedule. Its NHL regular season and its known what all the fans and players would like to see.
People tend to forget that it was another 3 weeks break here in Europe in last 50 or more? years and nothing really happened.
Hope some historians pointed out one day, that these examples why not to take NHL break, came from Senators and Islanders teams.
SmellOfVictory
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- Jun 3, 2011
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But it's still a two horse race where each country is icing the best team it can; it's still a legitimate, even playing field. In this instance, Russian players benefitted greatly from the fact that more of Russia's high end players chose to play in a non-NHL league than any other nation. The only reason they won gold is because the IOC couldn't come to a business agreement with the best league in the world.
SovietWings
Registered User
Winning World Cup in skiing, ski-jumping, cross-country-skiing or biathlon is also much harder than win the Olympic medal. To win the the World Cup you need to attend (and win) the meetings during the whole season. Basically in most sports winning World Cup/Series or even World Championship is harder than win the Olympic gold. To get the Olympic medal you just need to be lucky in the one single race in 4 years.
Kaisa Mäkäräinen leads the World Cup in womens biatlon yet she get 0 medals from that Korean place I am lazy to spell correctly because she shot like a blindfolded pirate during those games. So she's the best biathlete this year but I am pretty sure Darya Domracheva values her two medals more than winning the World Cup.
Gold medal doesn't mean you are the best. Nobody thinks that Ester Ledecka is the best downhill skier in the world but she will be forever remembered as gold medalist in Super-G.
So winning the gold medal is not the hardest achievement for the athlete but it is (for most sports) still the most prestigious one. And if my competitors don't show it's their problem not mine. The proposition of the tournament were known in advance and everybody tried their best to win it. Ok, maybe it's not that valuable from sport-statistics point of view, but bashing player for saying it means the most for them personally is just petty and stupid.
Also what about this: OG 1998, 2002 - Slovaks didn't have the fair chance to play the main tournament yet they were pretty even with other top teams in that time. Those results are also with asterisk?
Kaisa Mäkäräinen leads the World Cup in womens biatlon yet she get 0 medals from that Korean place I am lazy to spell correctly because she shot like a blindfolded pirate during those games. So she's the best biathlete this year but I am pretty sure Darya Domracheva values her two medals more than winning the World Cup.
Gold medal doesn't mean you are the best. Nobody thinks that Ester Ledecka is the best downhill skier in the world but she will be forever remembered as gold medalist in Super-G.
So winning the gold medal is not the hardest achievement for the athlete but it is (for most sports) still the most prestigious one. And if my competitors don't show it's their problem not mine. The proposition of the tournament were known in advance and everybody tried their best to win it. Ok, maybe it's not that valuable from sport-statistics point of view, but bashing player for saying it means the most for them personally is just petty and stupid.
Also what about this: OG 1998, 2002 - Slovaks didn't have the fair chance to play the main tournament yet they were pretty even with other top teams in that time. Those results are also with asterisk?
Pavel is right of course. The Olympics are the Olympics and NHL is just a commercial league.
And to put both in proper perspective: they are just entertainment, i.e. not that important.
And to put both in proper perspective: they are just entertainment, i.e. not that important.
I am not so sure that you understand what my point is. Of course the Olympics is more important to some people but I don't believe and I never will believe that what was an amateur tournament until quite recently is more prestigious than a professional tournament that has been around since the 1800's. The NHL is also the highest quality league because it has been around so long and is so prestigious.
Besides the 4 Olympics where there were NHL players competing, at least back 75 years, there was one team, the Soviet team, that was the same kind of quality as the NHL. They sure did dominate the other teams but they really were professionals playing against amateurs which is why the US victory in 1980 is so amazing.
To a lot of people their high school hockey team is more important to them than the NHL, that doesn't mean it would be more prestigious than the NHL.
Then I probably missed the point what kind of prestige it should be. Hockey prestige is dramatically affected by the fact that its club competition imo. Sure its the most prestigious club competition. But how do you want to compare it to international competition? I mean its clear for NA fans as its your league and you are in it. For me its just bit tough. I dont have any emotional relation to Stanley Cup, neither probably to any team. Its a big thing for sure. But then there is that gold medal from OGs which are just even cool enough to be there as a volunteer. I dont know whether you can even compare these two things. I mean for me, OGs are more important because I dont think I wake up because of any NHL team without czech guys with some exceptions when some teams are on fire and its basically art on ice which you can not watch anywhere else.
As to that professionals, czechoslovaks were also professionals and I thought same went for swedes, finns, etc.?
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I understand your sentiment completely, I think it is great that you feel how you feel about it. I guess I am no more right than you are, it's just my opinion.
Now I have no dream. LOLZ. You beat teams that were playing college players and has beens. GREAT JOB DATSYUK!
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