Datsyuk - Bergeron - Hossa vs Iginla - Forsberg - Lehtinen

[Fire Sweeney]

I'm not a Forsberg fan, but he would crush the weaker offensively and softer Bergeron.

 

[1989]

Trick question as Iginla is listed as a LW on this line and his career died in Pittsburgh when that happened.

 

[psycat]

Forsberg line AINEC, very strange the others are winning the poll considering Forsberg is the clearly best player here and Iginla the best goalscorer, sure Hossa > Lehtinen but it's not the most important thing here and I feel like as an actual line Lehtinen would complement Forsberg+Iginla very well.

 

[Crow]

I don’t feel like I don’t remember Lehtinen very well, his style of play, but forsberg and iginla are pretty far ahead of everyone else.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Not a very fair poll.

Lehtinen sticks out like a sore thumb.

Sorting the other five players 1 to 5 would be a good question.

 

[frisco]

Since there's about a 70% chance Forsberg would be injured, I'll go with the other option.

My Best-Carey

 

[SillyRabbit]

The results of this poll are very puzzling to me.

Iginla and Datsyuk were on the same level.

Forsberg was very clearly at least one tier above Bergeron, maybe even two.

Hossa was a tier above Lehtinen, but Lethinen was better defensively, which is really saying something.

 

[psycat]

Since there's about a 70% chance Forsberg would be injured, I'll go with the other option.

My Best-Carey

Since there is about a 80% chance Hossa would switch teams in the pause and that you get the 0.2pts/g version of Datsyuk I beg to differ.

 

[Haatley]

Iginla and Forsberg are the two best players. Went with that group.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Since there is about a 80% chance Hossa would switch teams in the pause and that you get the 0.2pts/g version of Datsyuk I beg to differ.

Am I missing something? Hossa got blindside traded once, traded at the deadline once, and opted to sign for a different team in free agency twice for a total of 5 teams played in his career. He never forced his way out, always left in free agency. Forsberg technically switched teams just as many times if you count his 2nd avalanche stint as separate. He was also always hurt, even if he was playing.

 

[bobholly39]

NHLs website wasn’t letting me select playoff games. Huh.

With the minimum games played at 25? That’s really good for 100+ games and the level of defense he brought... I would bump that minimum games up to atleast 40 or 50 for a more fair comparison, since you know selecting a certain 25 or so games of Datsyuk himself in this timeframe could see him at over a point per game. Also his reputation on this website is mostly that of a horrible playoff performer judging by most of the comments I see in every Datsyuk thread.

I figure 25 games was enough to eliminate fluke ~1 round performances, since sample size for playoffs is always smaller.

But - if I change it to 40 games,. he's 12th in ppg in that timeframe. If I change it to 50 games, he's 11th.

Still not great. Behind names like Alfredsson, Briere, Getzlaf, Zetterberg, Giroux, Spezza.

And keep in mind - you picked the set of years that were most advantageous to Datsyuk. If I pick the set of 10 years most advantageous to each player, he may fall farther back behind those close behind.

Yes Datsyuk is very strong defensively of course. But - Forsberg in his prime for playoffs is phenomenal offensively and defensively. For ppg, he'd be top ~3, and maybe #1, depending on the set of years you pick I figure. Just a different tier of player.

Also - I don't think Datsyuk's playoff reputation is horrible based on comments here. He gets called out a lot by some (such as myself) because he's often overrated. Being overrated doesn't make you bad.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Not a very fair poll.

Lehtinen sticks out like a sore thumb.

As what, a multiple selke winner with 30 goal seasons?

He’s the worst of the bunch offensively but top 3 defensively.

I’m one of the rare few that took Iginla/ Forsberg/ Lehtinen. Iginla and Forsberg were mvp level performers and playoff monsters. People have forgotten just how good they were in their prime.

Both Bergeron and Datsyuk got selkes that other forwards deserved. Great players, but they’ve reached mythic status on these boards.

 

[Coffee]

As what, a multiple selke winner with 30 goal seasons?

He’s the worst of the bunch offensively but top 3 defensively.

I’m one of the rare few that took Iginla/ Forsberg/ Lehtinen. Iginla and Forsberg were mvp level performers and playoff monsters. People have forgotten just how good they were in their prime.

Both Bergeron and Datsyuk got selkes that other forwards deserved. Great players, but they’ve reached mythic status on these boards.

Yeah people underrating Lehtinen, I think he fits in very well

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

As what, a multiple selke winner with 30 goal seasons?

He’s the worst of the bunch offensively but top 3 defensively.

I’m one of the rare few that took Iginla/ Forsberg/ Lehtinen. Iginla and Forsberg were mvp level performers and playoff monsters. People have forgotten just how good they were in their prime.

Both Bergeron and Datsyuk got selkes that other forwards deserved. Great players, but they’ve reached mythic status on these boards.

All of these guys have varying degrees of defensive skill but Jere Lehtinen is the only who who lags far behind the rest offensively.

A more balanced team might be Datsyuk - Kris Draper - Hossa

 

[19 for president]

A healthy Datsyuk was a pretty good playoff performer, but was rarely healthy by that point. If Datsyuk could not maneuver at 100% he lost a lot of his effectiveness. In contrast Forsberg was a beast even on 1 leg.

I'm leaning Iginla- Forsberg- Lehtinen because I think the physicality would match up really well for that line. I think Lehtinen would be better at eliminating Datsyuk then Bergeron would do eliminating Forsberg, and I'd regard Forsberg/Dats as the offensive pot stirrers for their lines.

Datsyuk was a great transitional defender but less of a one on one guy despite the Selke trophies (Z was always our shutdown guy). Hossa was similar. A healthy Iginla and Forsberg aren't guys that are giving up the puck a bunch in transition. So while they are great two way players I don't think of Hossa and Dats are true shut down guys vs elite puck carriers.

Lehtinen is obviously the worst player in the group but is a truly elite forward defensively so matchup wise that could work still.

 

[Regal]

All of these guys have varying degrees of defensive skill but Jere Lehtinen is the only who who lags far behind the rest offensively.

A more balanced team might be Datsyuk - Kris Draper - Hossa

Forsberg and Iginla are already better offensive players than Datsyuk and Hossa though, so while Lehtinen lags behind Bergeron offensively, it’s by arguably a similar degree to the advantage the first two have overall. Draper is a lot worse than Lehtinen and would make this an easy win for the Forsberg line

 

[Regal]

I figure 25 games was enough to eliminate fluke ~1 round performances, since sample size for playoffs is always smaller.

But - if I change it to 40 games,. he's 12th in ppg in that timeframe. If I change it to 50 games, he's 11th.

Still not great. Behind names like Alfredsson, Briere, Getzlaf, Zetterberg, Giroux, Spezza.

And keep in mind - you picked the set of years that were most advantageous to Datsyuk. If I pick the set of 10 years most advantageous to each player, he may fall farther back behind those close behind.

Yes Datsyuk is very strong defensively of course. But - Forsberg in his prime for playoffs is phenomenal offensively and defensively. For ppg, he'd be top ~3, and maybe #1, depending on the set of years you pick I figure. Just a different tier of player.

Also - I don't think Datsyuk's playoff reputation is horrible based on comments here. He gets called out a lot by some (such as myself) because he's often overrated. Being overrated doesn't make you bad.

Should be noted that while he wasn’t as productive as you’d like, he was always strong in terms of outplaying the opposition. From 07-08 to 14-15, he had the second best GF% at 5v5 and the best xGF% by a decent margin, in large part because he was allowing nothing when on the ice (second best GA/60)

Granted this was in part for being on a great team but he even stands out relative to that great team.

And if we look at some names ahead in production, like a Briere, he was giving up so much defensively that his production advantage doesn’t make up for it.

He’s certainly not on Forsberg’s level for the playoffs, as he was dominating possession like this while producing at a top tier rate, but there’s an argument for him being number 2 here. Iginla’s ‘04 run from any of these guys outside of Forsberg, but he didn’t have much success outside of that run.

 

[authentic]

Should be noted that while he wasn’t as productive as you’d like, he was always strong in terms of outplaying the opposition. From 07-08 to 14-15, he had the second best GF% at 5v5 and the best xGF% by a decent margin, in large part because he was allowing nothing when on the ice (second best GA/60)


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Granted this was in part for being on a great team but he even stands out relative to that great team.

And if we look at some names ahead in production, like a Briere, he was giving up so much defensively that his production advantage doesn’t make up for it.

He’s certainly not on Forsberg’s level for the playoffs, as he was dominating possession like this while producing at a top tier rate, but there’s an argument for him being number 2 here. Iginla’s ‘04 run from any of these guys outside of Forsberg, but he didn’t have much success outside of that run.

This is exactly why he’s underrated. A two-way player of his caliber judged mainly by his offensive output undersells just how good he was by a long shot.

It would’ve been really cool to see these numbers for Forsberg and Fedorov back in the day. If I were to guess, by the eye test I don’t think there’s a player that would’ve had consistently better numbers than Datsyuk since the 90s atleast, but if anyone did it was likely one of those two, and Lindros and Jagr wouldn’t be too far behind.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Should be noted that while he wasn’t as productive as you’d like, he was always strong in terms of outplaying the opposition. From 07-08 to 14-15, he had the second best GF% at 5v5 and the best xGF% by a decent margin, in large part because he was allowing nothing when on the ice (second best GA/60)


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Granted this was in part for being on a great team but he even stands out relative to that great team.

And if we look at some names ahead in production, like a Briere, he was giving up so much defensively that his production advantage doesn’t make up for it.

He’s certainly not on Forsberg’s level for the playoffs, as he was dominating possession like this while producing at a top tier rate, but there’s an argument for him being number 2 here. Iginla’s ‘04 run from any of these guys outside of Forsberg, but he didn’t have much success outside of that run.

Zetterberg had the tougher matchups with only marginally worse numbers. And Zetterberg was twice the playoff performer that Datsyuk was.

 

[Regal]

Zetterberg had the tougher matchups with only marginally worse numbers. And Zetterberg was twice the playoff performer that Datsyuk was.

Right, but Z isn’t in the poll.

 

[psycat]

Am I missing something? Hossa got blindside traded once, traded at the deadline once, and opted to sign for a different team in free agency twice for a total of 5 teams played in his career. He never forced his way out, always left in free agency. Forsberg technically switched teams just as many times if you count his 2nd avalanche stint as separate. He was also always hurt, even if he was playing.

Well I just thought it was a competition in hyperbole takes. Since if we asume that Forsberg would be hurt we have to do the same for other stuff. Like of course the hypothetical question is about, relatively, healthy players in their prime, else Hossa might aswell play in Mora(SHL).