Darren Helm

[Brick Top]

Retaining Helm is just a bad idea all-around because of the way this team is built. Unless you can move Howard and Ericsson ASAP to get-ahead of the terrible value those deals will bring in short order, you're going to have a combination of good-but-not-great young talent and a bunch of overpaid, over-the-hill veterans in no time.

I think we've already reached that time for the Wings

 

[Bench]

It's Helm or Sheahan. Not both. Somebody has to be a reliable scorer on this roster. I'm fine running Sheahan in the defensive 3rd line mode from here out, so Helm is your spare part.

And at any time Helm's glass bones could explode, knock on wood.

 

[Satrebil]

It's Helm or Sheahan. Not both. Somebody has to be a reliable scorer on this roster. I'm fine running Sheahan in the defensive 3rd line mode from here out, so Helm is your spare part.

And at any time Helm's glass bones could explode, knock on wood.

This makes sense, and coupled with Helm's recent comments, seems like Sheahan is the guy.

 

[Reddwit]

Holland has typically found a way to hang onto his loyal depth soldiers.

As it stands right now, there won't be any way to keep him because of Kyle Quincey's new contract which is basically guaranteed to happen.

And you could arguably say that because he's done that for so long, he's no longer able to.

 

[Retire91]

With Sheahan around I don't see any reason to keep Helm around. He is hindering the top 6 and doesn't seem to be getting a role in the bottom 6. He is also going to want an overpayment at this point in his career. I think its time to move on from helm. He was a good speedy defensive depth piece when the team was stacked. Now he has slowed down has some age on him and is redundant.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

helm is older then sheahan, smaller, less talented and will cost more money/term

bye bye darren and dont let the door hit you on your way out

 

[Satrebil]

Likelihood of Helm getting $4M/year?

 

[Retire91]

Likelihood of Helm getting $4M/year?

4m 5-7 years. A very high likelihood, but only from the Holland country club. Any other GM 2-3 years and less money.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Likelihood of Helm getting $4M/year?

Only if Toronto is crazy enough to give him that much.

 

[Hammettf2b]

With Sheahan around I don't see any reason to keep Helm around. He is hindering the top 6 and doesn't seem to be getting a role in the bottom 6. He is also going to want an overpayment at this point in his career. I think its time to move on from helm. He was a good speedy defensive depth piece when the team was stacked. Now he has slowed down has some age on him and is redundant.

That's not Helm's fault though. If the coach knew what he was doing, things would be different.

 

[Hammettf2b]

helm is older then sheahan, smaller, less talented and will cost more money/term

bye bye darren and dont let the door hit you on your way out

I don't get the hate. Helm has done a hell of a lot more for the team than Sheahan ever has. And I'm just talking about the years Sheahan has been on the team btw.

 

[chances14]

apparently Holland has personal connections to helm's fiancee. this has overpayment loyalty contract written all over it. This will be a good test to see if holland is going to change his ways or not

Helm is a unique case for Holland in several ways.

Both are alumni of the Medicine Hat (Alberta) junior hockey program in the Western Hockey League (WHL). Also, Helm’s fiancée Devon was a neighbor of the Holland family.

“His fiancée used to be in our backyard playing with my kids,” Holland said. “I’ve known Devon since she was two-three years old. I know Helmer and Devon really, really good.

“I like Helmer. I’ve had two coaches that both like Helmer. They play him lots of minutes.”

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...s-between-darren-helm-and-red-wings/83654676/

 

[Retire91]

That's not Helm's fault though. If the coach knew what he was doing, things would be different.

It doesn't really matter if its the player's fault though, he just doesn't fit on the team. He is not a top 6 player and there are younger cheaper possibly better options than him in the bottom 6.

Logic aside though Helm has loyalty contract written all over him. I bet we have another 6-7 years of the Abby Helm one two punch in the top 6.

 

[Hammettf2b]

It doesn't really matter if its the player's fault though, he just doesn't fit on the team. He is not a top 6 player and there are younger cheaper possibly better options than him in the bottom 6.

Logic aside though Helm has loyalty contract written all over him. I bet we have another 6-7 years of the Abby Helm one two punch in the top 6.

I agree that Helm shouldn't be in the top-6. Why not have a 3rd line of Abby-Helm-Jurco? Like I said, if the coach would put the proper players in their proper lines, things would be better.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I don't get the hate. Helm has done a hell of a lot more for the team than Sheahan ever has. And I'm just talking about the years Sheahan has been on the team btw.

its not hate whatsoever

what i hate is overpaying for loyalty

20, 33, 26
vs
24, 36, 25

those are helms vs sheahans nhl production while both players were full time on our team(past 3 seasons)

sheahan is young, bigger and more skilled than helm

its not hate, i would be extremely disappointed if we rewarded helm with a 3 or 4 year contract north of 2 million AAV

 

[13to40]

Would love to keep him at a discounted price. If he's getting 4+ then forget about it.

 

[Hammettf2b]

its not hate whatsoever

what i hate is overpaying for loyalty

20, 33, 26
vs
24, 36, 25

those are helms vs sheahans nhl production while both players were full time on our team(past 3 seasons)

sheahan is young, bigger and more skilled than helm

its not hate, i would be extremely disappointed if we rewarded helm with a 3 or 4 year contract north of 2 million AAV

idk, to me, Helm brings a lot more than Sheahan does. Production wise, they are close enough to each other. Helm brings energy and draws penalties. I'm not advocating keeping Helm over Sheahan and I too would like Helm only at a discounted rate. Every team needs a player like Helm when used in the right spot.

 

[njx9]

idk, to me, Helm brings a lot more than Sheahan does. Production wise, they are close enough to each other. Helm brings energy and draws penalties. I'm not advocating keeping Helm over Sheahan and I too would like Helm only at a discounted rate. Every team needs a player like Helm when used in the right spot.

Totally agree, quoting box scores about Darren Helm completely misses why he was a good player for the team, and why he was a tremendous guy on the PK and forecheck. It's utterly disingenuous to act like production is the only difference between Riley Sheahan and Darren Helm.

That said, and as much as I've loved Helm, I think it's time to let him go. I've argued consistently that guys like Glendening and Miller are good to have around (as long as they're cheap), because 4th line grinders don't prevent guys like AA from getting ice time. Helm's upcoming contract and usage would do both, and we're no longer the kind of team that can afford the luxury of having a Helm type of player on the team.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

idk, to me, Helm brings a lot more than Sheahan does. Production wise, they are close enough to each other. Helm brings energy and draws penalties. I'm not advocating keeping Helm over Sheahan and I too would like Helm only at a discounted rate. Every team needs a player like Helm when used in the right spot.

but i never said i didnt like him

i simply dont think he is worth what he could and will get as a free agent

as far as the guy that talked about box scores, thats not what I did

I said sheahan was younger, cheaper, bigger and more skilled AND it turns out more productive as well and it is for THOSE reasons(all of them not selecting just one to fit an argument) that i would let helm go

 

[njx9]

as far as the guy that talked about box scores, thats not what I did

I said sheahan was younger, cheaper, bigger and more skilled AND it turns out more productive as well and it is for THOSE reasons(all of them not selecting just one to fit an argument) that i would let helm go

You literally responded to Hammettf2b saying Helm had done more than Sheahan with points production. Sorry, that's *precisely* talking about box scores. I also have serious doubts that Sheahan is even slightly close to 'more skilled' than Helm.

I'm happy to keep the younger and cheaper player, in this case, regardless.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

You literally responded to Hammettf2b saying Helm had done more than Sheahan with points production. Sorry, that's *precisely* talking about box scores. I also have serious doubts that Sheahan is even slightly close to 'more skilled' than Helm.

I'm happy to keep the younger and cheaper player, in this case, regardless.

my response included more than just stats

to extract just that to suit a POV is to lie

i had said sheahan was bigger, strong, younger, cheaper and more skilled

hammettf2b then responded and said "Helm had done more when both players were in the league"

THE and ONLY THEN did i respond with the actual production stats while both players were in the league which showed sheahan on top of everything i had said previously was also more productive

read the thread properly from top to bottom before jumping to conclusons

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Player X isn't worth his production.

"No no no, you need to look past the box scores to see their true value."

Wings have too many "More than just the box score" players.

That tends to happen when you run out of talent.

 

[njx9]

my response included more than just stats

to extract just that to suit a POV is to lie

To suggest I said you *only* talked about box scores is also a lie. How pedantic do we need to get? You quoted box score production for two guys who aren't playing roles where that's a meaningful measure of comparison in any way, shape or form. Sorry, it's disingenuous. *shrug*

Player X isn't worth his production.

"No no no, you need to look past the box scores to see their true value."

Wings have too many "More than just the box score" players.

That tends to happen when you run out of talent.

No disagreement.

"[W]e're no longer the kind of team that can afford the luxury of having a Helm type of player on the team."

 

[Retire91]

I agree that Helm shouldn't be in the top-6. Why not have a 3rd line of Abby-Helm-Jurco? Like I said, if the coach would put the proper players in their proper lines, things would be better.

I really like that, it would be a pretty good bottom 6 line and there is really no reason why they couldn't have put it together by utilizing Mantha and AA more this season. But I am affraid of the contract Holland will give Helm and Sheahan can easily replace Helm on that line.

Sure maybe we don't get in the playoffs. But look we made it to the playoffs and pffffffffffffffffffffffffft laid another big egg.

 

[Retire91]

Player X isn't worth his production.

"No no no, you need to look past the box scores to see their true value."

Wings have too many "More than just the box score" players.

That tends to happen when you run out of talent.

Absolutely, eventually someone has to hit the score sheet and the big 3 aren't doing it enough any more and can't carry a bunch of role players getting top 6 ice time.