Dark Side of the Ring - Viceland show

[IceColdOx]

Cornette is going to have Kevin Sullivan on his show. I'm thankful the producers didn't put anything about the lame conspiracy theory that he killed everyone. Literally the most nonsensical thing I've heard.

 

[Kaner9]

DOUBLEDOUBLE

 

[Kaner9]

He's not a bad guy, just misunderstood

Clarence Mason that you brother? New jack is one I would die to crack a beer with.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

LOL In Smokey Mountain Wrestling, New Jack in his Tag Team the Gangsta's used to win matches with a 2 count citing the reason as Affirmative Action. New Jack, not a single f*** given.

 

[ColePens]

I want to say Jim Cornette was a genius and a maniac at the same time and this documentary PERSONIFIES everything right and wrong with wrestling. 100%.

The acceptance of using race to get heat is bad. That was a bad call. And at the same time... genius. Pretty terrible. This was just one of those walks into the wrestling where you realize how totally screwed up it is.

 

[GKJ]

Don't like the seemingly glorifying presentation to parts of it. But it was hilarious when Chris Geathard asked if New Jack was working with a team of writers on that stuff and the whole panel just laughs at him.

 

[sabremike]

I want to say Jim Cornette was a genius and a maniac at the same time and this documentary PERSONIFIES everything right and wrong with wrestling. 100%.

The acceptance of using race to get heat is bad. That was a bad call. And at the same time... genius. Pretty terrible. This was just one of those walks into the wrestling where you realize how totally screwed up it is.

Meltzer was very quick to point out (as did I awhile back on this board) that in terms of business the angle bombed real bad. It's real obvious that Corny's incredibly low opinion of his own audience blew up in his face, and while it wasn't the reason the company went under the fall in business it caused certainly contributed to it.

 

[ColePens]

Meltzer was very quick to point out (as did I awhile back on this board) that in terms of business the angle bombed real bad. It's real obvious that Corny's incredibly low opinion of his own audience blew up in his face, and while it wasn't the reason the company went under the fall in business it caused certainly contributed to it.

Oh wow... they really changed the history of that and made it seem like business boomed.

 

[HandsomeHollywood]

The documentary doesn't suggest that business was on the up ever. It's saying that The Gangstas were controversial and hated. When you have heat that bad it rarely translates to ticket sales.

I also saw no glorification. I saw New Jack the person having 0 remorse for anything he did. The cameras rolled. I can't think of a point where the documentary itself promoted New Jack in a positive light. New Jack enjoying his legend and the crazy shit he did isn't the same as the documentary itself glorifying it.

 

[JackSlater]

I liked the New Jack episode. The man is crazy, but he's also very interesting. Great talker too, both inside and outside the context of wrestling. They highlighted that he really blurs the lines and that's certainly true.

I've seen a few whine on the internet that the episode glorifies New Jack somehow and it puzzles me, but that's to be expected from segments of wrestling fandom in recent years. I would hope that most people don't need the production to explicitly tell them that the crazy man who does bad things is bad. New Jack is one of a kind and that's probably for the best.

Regarding Cornette, he himself admits that the Gangstas ended up costing the company money regardless of how good or bad the angle was. The NAACP was protesting Smoky Mountain shows and that was a problem. Cornette is one of wrestling's best talkers ever and has long been very creative, but he's no business man.

 

[Kaner9]

NewJack gives no effs and that is hilarious. Wouldn't wanna be him but its amazing that he exists. Then again the match with him stabbing red haired guy 9 times was not so cool.

 

[boredmale]

NewJack gives no effs and that is hilarious. Wouldn't wanna be him but its amazing that he exists. Then again the match with him stabbing red haired guy 9 times was not so cool.

It was hard to try guess is New Jack was just all out crazy or selling the gimmick still(because that is how he stays somewhat relevant). I am guessing 50% this, 50% that

 

[SladeWilson23]

The New Jack episode only brings up the one question about ECW that I still don't understand. How the f*** did nobody ever die while in ECW?! BTW, looking at all the scars on Abdullah's head and New Jack's head freaks me out. I can't imagine blading by head that much and that deep to leave those scars.

The Moolah episode surprised me a little bit, because they don't really vilify her all that much. A lot of people still support her, and I applaud Vice for letting those people have a voice. Although their opinions didn't move the needle for me, and I still find Moolah a black mark to women's wrestling.

The Benoit episodes were very well done. BTW, David is almost a spitting image of Chris. Should Nancy Benoit be in the WWE HOF?

I'm definitely looking forward to the Owen episode.

 

[boredmale]

I still find Moolah a black mark to women's wrestling.

Whether the behind the door stuff is true or not she was guilty of pushing a crappy style of wrestling that held woman's wrestling behind(basically making it a sideshow).

Should Nancy Benoit be in the WWE HOF?

I would put Missy Hyatt in before her, same deal with Kevin Sullivan. I don't see either of those making it. To me 2 biggest people screwed by the WWF are Cindy Lauper who deserves a hell of alot of credit for the Rock and Wrestling fad in the mid 80s(given some of the celebrity wing) and Andy Kaufman who although he didn't work the WWF is probably the biggest celebrity involvement in wrestling ever.

 

[CDJ]

LOL In Smokey Mountain Wrestling, New Jack in his Tag Team the Gangsta's used to win matches with a 2 count citing the reason as Affirmative Action. New Jack, not a single f*** given.

I love Cornette and new jack. The thought of those two coming up with this in the back is hilarious to me

THATS how you get heat below the Mason-Dixon Line

 

[IceColdOx]

We're just now catching up in regards to women's wrestling. Go look at Japan in the 80s and 90s and watch Mynami Toyota, Aja Kong, Bull Nakano and others. Thank goodness we have actual talent in North America.

 

[CDJ]

The guy that got stabbed by new jack had it coming


What in the f*** was he thinking

 

[JackSlater]

I love Cornette and new jack. The thought of those two coming up with this in the back is hilarious to me

THATS how you get heat below the Mason-Dixon Line

It's kind of funny that Cornette's Smoky Mountain booking was in many way ahead of its time and not so dissimilar to what would follow in ECW/WWF given his reputation and his own statements regarding those other promotions. Smoky Mountain has its issues but there are plenty of creative gems there.

 

[sabremike]

It's kind of funny that Cornette's Smoky Mountain booking was in many way ahead of its time and not so dissimilar to what would follow in ECW/WWF given his reputation and his own statements regarding those other promotions. Smoky Mountain has its issues but there are plenty of creative gems there.

If your idea of a brilliant angle is one that causes business to fall bad and helps put your company out of business then I guess The Gangstas angle was brilliant.

 

[JackSlater]

If your idea of a brilliant angle is one that causes business to fall bad and helps put your company out of business then I guess The Gangstas angle was brilliant.

I can read Meltzer myself if I'm interested in vapid "analysis" of wrestling. I do like the strawman you set up however. It boggles my mind that many wrestling fans have been tricked into trying to judge the quality of a product by the money that it is perceived to have earned while in other entertainment mediums people are usually not stupid enough to equate money with quality.

 

[sabremike]

I can read Meltzer myself if I'm interested in vapid "analysis" of wrestling. I do like the strawman you set up however. It boggles my mind that many wrestling fans have been tricked into trying to judge the quality of a product by the money that it is perceived to have earned while in other entertainment mediums people are usually not stupid enough to equate money with quality.

And the angle was the promoter demonstrating as low of an opinion of his audience as humanly possible, it was the most low rent cheap heat thing possible, made the promotion look as scummy as possible to the point the NAACP condemned it (Ironic in hindsight as Corny would rail against Ian Rotten doing blood filled ultraviolent shows for killing the image of the business), it turned people off in droves and in short it flat out sucked on both a business AND artistic level.

 

[JackSlater]

And the angle was the promoter demonstrating as low of an opinion of his audience as humanly possible, it was the most low rent cheap heat thing possible, made the promotion look as scummy as possible to the point the NAACP condemned it (Ironic in hindsight as Corny would rail against Ian Rotten doing blood filled ultraviolent shows for killing the image of the business), it turned people off in droves and in short it flat out sucked on both a business AND artistic level.

Though I disagree I at least appreciate that this time your post at least attempts to address quality a little bit. The angle was good, unfortunately for Cornette he was a bit early to try it and his promotion was simply in a place that was never going to earn money. The same moralistic drivel was thrown around at WWF just a few years later during a massive boom period. Of course, as we all know the money part has no relevance when it comes to the quality of the work.

I will add, I could totally see Cornette ripping the exact same angle if it came from ECW or WWF. Outlaw mudshow killed the territory etc.

 

[HandsomeHollywood]

What do you mean money doesn't equal quality? Vince/Umaga vs Trump/Lashley made a killing!

It's true the argument for money made being an indication of quality has been pushed by wrestling fans very hard the last two years. Nash, Hogan, Hall, Russo, and others have been pushing this angle for decades knowing the critical response to their work isn't good. Wrestling fans sound more and more like wannabe business insiders than fans these days.

 

[CDJ]

Cornette rails on Ian rotten because he made the athletic commission in Kentucky have over the top restrictions after a dude almost died in a death match.

 

[sabremike]

Cornette rails on Ian rotten because he made the athletic commission in Kentucky have over the top restrictions after a dude almost died in a death match.

That was part of it but if you read or hear any interview he does on the subject his biggest thing was that he was giving the entire wrestling business in the area a bad name (and to some degree I understand his point).