- Oct 31, 2007
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If you can't look a few posts before yours for the answer, I don't know what to tell you.
Confirmed Trade: [DAL/CAR] Mikko Rantanen (signs 8 years, $12M AAV) for Logan Stankoven, c. 2026 1st round, c. 2028 1st round, 2026 3rd round, 2027 3rd round
- Thread starter MMC
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If you can't look a few posts before yours for the answer, I don't know what to tell you.
elmaco
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- Feb 1, 2017
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Why is Carolina trading for a pending UFA with no extension in place? End of discussion.
- Oct 31, 2007
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*sigh*
Because they were told by that pending UFA that he’d be interested in signing with them. As has been reported multiple times since the trade happened. And the knock against Carolina for years has been that they don’t have a gamebreaking forward, of which Rantanen was, theoretically, one. And all it cost them was a player they were trying to trade this past offseason anyway. So they would have been stupid not to take the deal. No one could have predicted that Rantanen’s camp didn’t take the trade possibility seriously.
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elmaco
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Well he wasn't, that just proves my point.*sigh*
Because they were told by that pending UFA that he’d be interested in signing with them. As has been reported multiple times since the trade happened.
- Oct 31, 2007
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Bingo.
Dallas said we are not trading for Rantanen unless we get an extension with the signature on the dotted line. And that's exactly what they did.
This is the difference between a top tier organization (Dallas) and an unserious, second tier organization (Carolina).
I'm lowkey rooting for Carolina but their management group constantly thinks they're the smartest in the room and always tries to buck the trend instead of just doing the right thing.
Add this Rantanen disaster to another list of things that makes you go WTF?
Just off the top of my head:
- KK offersheet and then an subsequent awful 8 year x $5M extension (a Stanley Cup contender trying to get cute using assets and cap on a mid player trying to outsmart everyone in the room)
- Cheaping out on Jake Guentzel to the point where the head coach just went on a rant on how they could have kept him if they just offered him the deal he wanted (which was more than reasonable)
- Not re-signing Vincent Trochek to a reasonable extension despite having no center depth and letting him to go a divisional rival... Canes have not found a 2C since
- Signing Orlov to a huge deal during a flat cap and then using him as a third pairing Dman
- Not using their plenty of cap space and assets consistently to buy when they were cup contenders (outside of Guentzel, the adds at the deadline since they became contenders are hilariously underwhelming)
- Not re-signing Hamilton and letting him go to a divisional rival (this one's debatable but he's still great)
- Not addressing their needs... how is a Cup contender STILL struggling to find a 2C for like 4 years? There's been 1000 2C-type centers changing teams since then. Off the top of my head (Norris, Cozens, Mittlestadt, Miller, Horvat, Strome, PLD, Monahan, Nelson, Granlund, ROR, Hertl, Kadri etc). Carolina with all the cap and all the assets in the world couldn't get one of these guys in the past couple years?
This team pisses me off because if they got their asses out of their heads, they'd be a dynasty.
bleedgreen
Registered User
The Canes traded Necas for the fourth pick in this past draft and the deal was nixed because Necas wouldn’t sign with them. He said goodbye to the area via insta and his Dad was trading insults with Canes management publicly. Safe to say was already “lost”.
I don’t view Rants as a loss. The day of the trade I didn’t think he was worth 13, and I thought he wasn’t worth anything after he mailed it in.
We lost Jake because we grinded the negotiations. Long term that’s for the best as Jake probably won’t age well but he would’ve been amazing with Aho for a few years. That’s the owner more than Tulsky.
elmaco
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He certainly has the ability to minimize risks, which he obviously did not do.
- Oct 31, 2007
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Flipping Rantanen at the deadline was minimizing the risk. He turned Necas + Drury + 2nd + 4th into Hall + Stankoven + two 1sts + two 3rds. That’s a good value deal.
bleedgreen
Registered User
We don’t get the chance to get a guy like Rants very often, we were given indications he would sign. He’s a rental. That’s plenty for a lot of teams. We did it early enough that if it didn’t work out we could flip him. We flipped him. I’m missing the rest.
This is mental gymnastics.*sigh*
Because they were told by that pending UFA that he’d be interested in signing with them. As has been reported multiple times since the trade happened. And the knock against Carolina for years has been that they don’t have a gamebreaking forward, of which Rantanen was, theoretically, one. And all it cost them was a player they were trying to trade this past offseason anyway. So they would have been stupid not to take the deal. No one could have predicted that Rantanen’s camp didn’t take the trade possibility seriously.
Tulsky has every right to actually request for legitimate and credible discussions of negotiations with Rantanen before trading for him, or better yet, you know... sign an extension as part of the trade? Like what Dallas did?
Even if Rantanen or his camp implied there would be some interest in re-signing, that doesn't seem like anything concrete. Seems like it was just a general or vague expression of interest. In business, if it's not on paper and signed, it's not really meaningful.
The risk of no extension was already baked in, otherwise a signed Rantanen would have cost more than Necas + and side pieces.
The craziest part is acquiring a high-end game breaker in Rantanen without an extension and then basically forcing him to sign an extension in a month, and then trading him away when he doesn't want to. That's the beauty of FREE agency right? He's FREE to do whatever he wants.
Tulsky then takes the deal to the last minute and "runs out of time" and is unable to parlay his futures into players that can help now.
So this roster went from Necas + Drury to Rantanen to Stankoven. This is not what champions do. I like Carolina but this is just a management group that always thinks they're smarter than everyone else. Another year where they should be Cup contenders but back to being a fringe contender. Just mind blowing stuff... how do these execs making this much money make such stupid decisions? It's ego.
The poster doesn't realize what they're saying actually makes them look worse.
This means that Tulsky walked into one of the biggest trades in NHL history based on "loose interest" from the agent. That's amateur hour.
You see how Dallas did it? No extension, no trade. Canes should have done the same, and if there was no extension, parlay Necas into something else and move on.
This would be the equivalent of the Raptors acquiring Kawhi Leonard in 2019 and then shipping him off 10 games later instead of riding him to the championship. And then they end up trading Leonard for a young prospect who's a good player but not an elite gamebreaker. That's what Tulsky would have done :p
bleedgreen
Registered User
Am I reading this right? You’re a Vancouver fan?
Telling someone else how their team should be run?
Explain how you had Horvat, Miller and EP and now you just have EP for gobs of money out there earning it every night…
Am I reading this right? You’re a Vancouver fan?
Telling someone else how their team should be run?
Explain how you had Horvat, Miller and EP and now you just have EP for gobs of money out there earning it every night…
What does this have to do with the Mikko Rantanen trade thread? I admit and acknowledge that the Canucks are a C tier organization - it's just facts. Now what?
You can't make fun of Canucks fans when we make fun of ourselves the most. Anyway... back to the topic at hand.Mental gymnastics should be the two word TLDR for the Hurricanes on this saga. The Rantanen saga was an unmitigated disaster that was completely unnecessarily drummed up by Tulsky and co.
- Oct 31, 2007
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You’re right that Tulsky has every right to request for an extension before the deal. But then the deal either A: never happens because Rantanen wouldn’t sign an extension, thus leaving Tulsky with Necas, who (again) was already trying to be moved for about half a year by that point or B: the trade does happen, Carolina pays more to Colorado because of the extension, but Rantanen requests a trade at the deadline anyway because he doesn’t want to play in Carolina. The way it worked out, Tulsky got the opportunity to take a shot at a gamebreaking player and, when that didn’t work out, got more value for said player than Necas would have returned. I don’t see where the issue is.
Also, if you believe Carolina came into this season expecting to be Cup contenders, you’ve not been paying attention.
elmaco
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bleedgreen
Registered User
If you told me after Necas nixed the Cbus deal that we traded him the next day to Dallas for Stank, Hall and four draft picks including two first rounders you bet your ass I’d say it was a good transaction. He wouldn’t have brought us anything like that at next years deadline.
- Oct 31, 2007
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Yeah, and I’m saying it was. Necas’ value this past offseason (before Carolina signed him to the shorter deal) was said to be two 2nds. There were also rumors that Columbus and Carolina were working on a deal involving a signed, 8-year contract Necas and the 4th overall pick, but Necas wouldn’t sign that deal.
So, turning Necas into Stankoven + two 1sts is way above his value before the season began.
bleedgreen
Registered User
Drummed up? Saying that the Canes created this whole situation is indeed mental gymnastics.What does this have to do with the Mikko Rantanen trade thread? I admit and acknowledge that the Canucks are a C tier organization - it's just facts. Now what?
Mental gymnastics should be the two word TLDR for the Hurricanes on this saga. The Rantanen saga was an unmitigated disaster that was completely unnecessarily drummed up by Tulsky and co.
The Canes are in on most big players every year. No surprise when it Was Rantanen. I’m personally against rentals but when it’s difficult to get top end players you go whatever route you have to. Tulsky’s most recent interview said it all, that they had a chance to get a player of Rants stature and had reason to hope he would sign which is all they needed to make the deal. They left themselves enough time to flip him if they had to….which they did for a good price.
I’ll miss Necas but his bags have been packed for a long time and he wasn’t a good fit for the Canes. For better or worse, I wish they could take advantage of him. After the summer we had the most we were hoping for was that we sneak into the playoffs, and it looks like we’re easily going to make it. We aren’t a cup contender so no, it’s not remotely a disaster. There’s a pretty clear line to follow through all this if you know the Canes, doesn’t really take mental gymnastics.
Not trading Boeser when you know he’s walking in a few months because you didn’t like the offers doesn’t look like very good management to me.
So the deal doesn't happen and Carolina can focus on trading Necas somewhere to address their center depth... the logical and traditional thing to do where everybody ends up happy. But no... Tulsky thinks he's the smartest guy in the room again. Or yet, how about trade Necas in the offseason when he was an RFA instead of signing him to a bridge deal that walks him to UFA and significantly diminishes his trade value?
You don't see where the issue is because you're doing mental gymnastics. Stankoven and 2 1sts isn't terrible value for Necas and Drury, but team-building and operating a franchise at an high-tier isn't just about spreadsheets and value. The issue is that the Canes went from Necas, to Rantanen, and now to Stankoven. Imagine the guys in the locker room right now... seeing a top forward get traded for a superstar, only for it to be flipped for a youngster.
Re bolded: Y'all would be the Simone Biles of mental gymnastics. Absolute GOATs.
Your own GM went out to trade for a top 15 player without an extension but somehow, the Canes weren't expecting to be cup contenders. If the organization didn't view themselves as a cup contender, why would they trade for a top rental?
Yeah... Canes should waste another year of Aho, Slavin, Burns, Andersen, Staal etc. Great idea.
- Oct 31, 2007
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You mean exactly what they tried to do? Where Necas’ value was two 2nds without a new contract? I know you’re just now only paying attention to Carolina because of this Rantanen deal, but you should really do some research before going off like this.
The guys in the locker room…that were happy to see Rantanen go after he half-assed it in his time in Carolina. Again, you really need to start paying attention.
I already answered that, but I’ll repeat it just for you:
Because they were told by that pending UFA that he’d be interested in signing with them. As has been reported multiple times since the trade happened. And the knock against Carolina for years has been that they don’t have a gamebreaking forward, of which Rantanen was, theoretically, one. And all it cost them was a player they were trying to trade this past offseason anyway. So they would have been stupid not to take the deal. No one could have predicted that Rantanen’s camp didn’t take the trade possibility seriously.
They absolutely did. How you can't see this is mind-boggling.
They went out and used their best trade chip (and one of the best trade chips across the league) on a top 15 player and did NOT have a contract extension on hand.
They then, tried to force said player, to sign an eight year extension after a couple weeks and said we're shipping you if you don't sign an extension.
Said player says he's not going to sign, and then Carolina lets the transaction go to the last minute of the TDL and then is unable to parlay his first rounders for impact players now (ADMITTED by your GM out loud).
Carolina is LUCKY that Dallas threw them a lifeboat.
You're too focused on the results (which aren't good either) instead of the process.
If Carolina trades Necas for a 2C with term, then everyone's happy and can move on with their lives. Tulsky took an ill-advised swing and missed badly. It's ok to admit when your management team makes mistakes.
Reputation matters... you think this is a good look for Carolina? You think players are going to be impressed by what we just saw? It's going to be even harder to get players to come to Carolina now.
F'ing around with Guentzel's negotiations so he can go to a divisional rival, and then the subsequent Rantanen disaster class. Eek.
Bouboumaster
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- Jul 4, 2014
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100%
Still, at the end of the day, they should have kept Necas IMO
He would have help them a lot for this playoff run
Kcb12345
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- Jun 6, 2017
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'Completely misinformed': Rantanen's agent claps back at Hurricanes' Brind'Amour
On Tuesday, Mikko Rantanen's agent fired back on behalf of his client, three days after his trade to the Dallas Stars.
You don't need to repeat it because it doesn't make the situation any better.
Unless they were concrete discussions, negotiations or a signed extension, none of it really matters. It's ok to express interest - he's exercising his right.
Part of the scope of a general manager job is to be able to navigate these situations. Trading for a star forward with no extension and then forcing him out after a month is bad, bad looks.
The mental gymnastics here is crazy. It's ok to admit that Tulsky screwed up. Don't let that ego take over here.
