D Rodwin Dionicio - Niagara IceDogs, OHL (2023, 129th, ANA)

TopC0rner

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I'm just saying that this player is not an exceptional talent, nor an elite offensive defenseman, nor a guy who looks like Brent Burns. Just that he's an unsigned 5th round selection.

What you see in Dionicio, obviously, no one among the NHL decision-makers sees it.
I think what's being said here is that, considering his talent level, which may not be "exceptional" (but then again, that's a vague concept, cause I mean maybe 10 players get drafted based on their "exceptional talent" and the draft consists of over 200 players), but was remarkable enough to stand out in one of the best junior leagues, you'd think such great minds like the mentioned NHL decision-makers would have put a late pick on him during his draft year, instead of drafting other non-talented guys that will never really stand out like Dionicio has.

I'm sure the Penguins staff are cheering about selecting Noah Collins instead of him during the 2022 draft. How glad must they be at the moment, especially after reading you.
 

Dirtyf1ghter

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I think what's being said here is that, considering his talent level, which may not be "exceptional" (but then again, that's a vague concept, cause I mean maybe 10 players get drafted based on their "exceptional talent" and the draft consists of over 200 players), but was remarkable enough to stand out in one of the best junior leagues, you'd think such great minds like the mentioned NHL decision-makers would have put a late pick on him during his draft year, instead of drafting other non-talented guys that will never really stand out like Dionicio has.

I'm sure the Penguins staff are cheering about selecting Noah Collins instead of him during the 2022 draft. How glad must they be at the moment, especially after reading you.
It depends what you call talent. Guys who score points but concede a lot of goals are not liked by coaches, scouts and players.

If Pittsburgh took Nolan Collins, it was probably because they felt he could fill a role as a big, physical right-handed defenseman who was effective in the game without the puck. Most of what a coach and recruiter observes has nothing to do with scoring.

I'm reading his profile, to me, his selection in the 6th round of 2022 is very logical.

Anyway in 2023, Pittsburgh preferred to take Emil Pieniniemi in 91. When you list the 32 teams and the players chosen before Dionicio in 2022 then in 2023, it is clearly that the scouts were not excited by his profile.
 

TopC0rner

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It depends what you call talent. Guys who score points but concede a lot of goals are not liked by coaches, scouts and players.

If Pittsburgh took Nolan Collins, it was probably because they felt he could fill a role as a big, physical right-handed defenseman who was effective in the game without the puck. Most of what a coach and recruiter observes has nothing to do with scoring.

I'm reading his profile, to me, his selection in the 6th round of 2022 is very logical.

Anyway in 2023, Pittsburgh preferred to take Emil Pieniniemi in 91. When you list the 32 teams and the players chosen before Dionicio in 2022 then in 2023, it is clearly that the scouts were not excited by his profile.
NHL teams are imo, in general, very conservative, they'd rather select players who will likely never even be AHL regulars. Evidently, it's my opinion, but I think the NHL drafts at least 50 guys who have a really small chance of becoming NHL regulars, and even then in a very limited role.

Big, physical players that play well without the puck (and in junior, imo, that's fairly relative...) but don't have much else shouldn't be drafted. The likeliness that they ever play more than a replacement role on an NHL team is less than 1%. I know coaches like this kind of players, but these guys aren't projectable at the next level.

You can't be happy drafting prospects that you don't sign when prospects that showed clear signs of talent in their draft years were passed over. It just means that you made the wrong choice, unless somehow you didn't see the talent (but then others have, in which case you might want to go back and check what/why you missed).

Just like I said in this thread last year, guys like Dionicio should 100% be targeted with picks from the 5th to the 7th. He is the kind of player who showed advanced skills with the puck and offensive IQ, which few players ever develop (I'm talking observation of the player here, not points). He was playing on a bad Niagara squad in 2021-2022 but he showed a lot of improvement throughout the year. Keep in mind that he used to play as a forward and was a late conversion to the D position. His skating and his defensive reads needed work. Still, he had the coveted size and physicality.

My opinion, which I know differs from the general NHL mentality, is that you should draft for players with skills that are hard to teach from the 5th round+, and then help them develop what is easier to learn/improve. It's not like these picks are worth much anyway.
 

Dirtyf1ghter

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NHL teams are imo, in general, very conservative, they'd rather select players who will likely never even be AHL regulars. Evidently, it's my opinion, but I think the NHL drafts at least 50 guys who have a really small chance of becoming NHL regulars, and even then in a very limited role.

Big, physical players that play well without the puck (and in junior, imo, that's fairly relative...) but don't have much else shouldn't be drafted. The likeliness that they ever play more than a replacement role on an NHL team is less than 1%. I know coaches like this kind of players, but these guys aren't projectable at the next level.

You can't be happy drafting prospects that you don't sign when prospects that showed clear signs of talent in their draft years were passed over. It just means that you made the wrong choice, unless somehow you didn't see the talent (but then others have, in which case you might want to go back and check what/why you missed).

Just like I said in this thread last year, guys like Dionicio should 100% be targeted with picks from the 5th to the 7th. He is the kind of player who showed advanced skills with the puck and offensive IQ, which few players ever develop (I'm talking observation of the player here, not points). He was playing on a bad Niagara squad in 2021-2022 but he showed a lot of improvement throughout the year. Keep in mind that he used to play as a forward and was a late conversion to the D position. His skating and his defensive reads needed work. Still, he had the coveted size and physicality.

My opinion, which I know differs from the general NHL mentality, is that you should draft for players with skills that are hard to teach from the 5th round+, and then help them develop what is easier to learn/improve. It's not like these picks are worth much anyway.
You learn to NHL teams how to select. Amazing.
 

forever1922

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For all the flack @Dirtyf1ghter gets for his take, he does have a point with Dionicio still not under contract and no talk regarding interest in him. Still, I also would argue he has developed much above expected. I put his chances to make the NHL earlier this season as "likely" and that is far above expectation for a 5th rounder.

I agree he does need to find that defensive consistency to ever become anything more than the sheltered offensive option in the NHL, as that will not be any kind of an option on the Ducks. But I disagree that being Mintyukov, he is one of the fiercest defensive players, if inexperienced on the Ducks, after Gudas. That might be Zellweger or Dionicio but hopefully none of them are that lacking defensively.

I suspect him not signing yet is simply a development plan, that he spends a year in Europe before coming back to AHL/NHL as a more ready prospect. Might be due to Ducks 50-man roster limit because they have so many prospects under contract as he would need to spend time in the AHL and not as an overager in juniors.
 

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For all the flack @Dirtyf1ghter gets for his take, he does have a point with Dionicio still not under contract and no talk regarding interest in him. Still, I also would argue he has developed much above expected. I put his chances to make the NHL earlier this season as "likely" and that is far above expectation for a 5th rounder.

I agree he does need to find that defensive consistency to ever become anything more than the sheltered offensive option in the NHL, as that will not be any kind of an option on the Ducks. But I disagree that being Mintyukov, he is one of the fiercest defensive players, if inexperienced on the Ducks, after Gudas. That might be Zellweger or Dionicio but hopefully none of them are that lacking defensively.

I suspect him not signing yet is simply a development plan, that he spends a year in Europe before coming back to AHL/NHL as a more ready prospect. Might be due to Ducks 50-man roster limit because they have so many prospects under contract as he would need to spend time in the AHL and not as an overager in juniors.
Exactly. He's gonna play in Europe so no point signing him just yet. He wanted to play AHL this season but that didn't happen because he was traded to Saginaw.

Europe is the right decision for Dionicio btw. Much like Lian Bichsel, his skating with the puck is fine but skating against the puck (lateral and backwards skating, mobility) remains a work in progress. Therefore, Dionicio is gonna find it much harder to defend on the wider European ice compared to NA where hitting is much easier because forwards have less space to skate around him.
 

190Octane

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So you're telling me that you have a life and therefore no time to watch games. If that's true then how you do have time to write bs post about players? I suggest you use your (apparently) precious time to watch games instead of writing stupid posts about players you've never watched.

You're correct. I'm Swiss born. That doesn't mean that I'm only watching Swiss ice hockey. In fact, I'm watching way more NA hockey than Swiss hockey. I haven't watched a game of the Swiss National Team in years, too. Being Swiss born also doesn't mean I'm biased. For example, I always said that JJ Moser doesn't have NHL upside. Well, I was wrong. Unlike you I don't have a problem admitting it when I'm wrong. Despite you claiming it, I actually also never said that Reber should be a top100 pick. And since we're talking about Reber, you're wrong saying that he wasn't listed by Central Scouting. He's #115 on the European skater list. Is he gonna get drafted? I don't know. Could be a close call. I thought he needed to finish the season on a high in order to be a lock but the fact that he missed the the J18 finals in Sweden due to injury and then played the WJC18 hurt probably didn't help his cause.

I strongly suggest watching Dionicio before posting again on the matter. If you watch him you'll realize that he's a pretty unique player. You don't get to draft too many of those defensemen who can do it all. It's very much unclear if Dionicio will ever reach his potential and make it to the NHL but he's fascinating to watch and the upside is clearly there. Which is also why Yakemchuk is gonna go way earlier (top5) this year than many people think. These are just rare prospects.
Doesn’t that mean that your default is neutral, if anything?
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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Does dirryfighter just pick a new ducks d prospect thread to hang out in every year…. Last season it was luneau, this year Dionicio

Will we see him in port thread next year…. Or maybe a guy we draft in this up coming draft, only time will tell
 

Dirtyf1ghter

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Does dirryfighter just pick a new ducks d prospect thread to hang out in every year…. Last season it was luneau, this year Dionicio

Will we see him in port thread next year…. Or maybe a guy we draft in this up coming draft, only time will tell
Luneau like Dionicio was before being selected by Anaheim.

Luneau was that he would not be selected in the 1st round in 2022. He was not.

Dionicio is that he wouldn't be selected until the 4th round in 2023. He was picked in the 5th.
 

LeProspector

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Luneau like Dionicio was before being selected by Anaheim.

Luneau was that he would not be selected in the 1st round in 2022. He was not.

Dionicio is that he wouldn't be selected until the 4th round in 2023. He was picked in the 5th.
Both Luneau and Dionicio, looking back should have been selected higher than they were. Luneau should have been a first rounder. Dionicio should have been selected in the first 3 rounds. Seems like you’re too focused on where kids are drafted, rather than where they should be. Perhaps you should spend more time in the mock draft section of these boards.
 
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Dirtyf1ghter

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Both Luneau and Dionicio, looking back should have been selected higher than they were. Luneau should have been a first rounder. Dionicio should have been selected in the first 3 rounds.
But they weren't and the debate was about the result of the draft. Not LeProspector's opinion.
 

Dirtyf1ghter

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You’re more stubborn than me, that’s impressive actually. I applaud you.
You're the one who persists in replying half of my messages. If you notice, I leave you alone with your problems and your ideas without ever intervening. I've never asked you anything but if you want to clash with me as always, you will always have an answer, LeDictator.
 
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LeProspector

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You're the one who persists in replying half of my messages. If you notice, I leave you alone with your problems and your ideas without ever intervening. I've never asked you anything but if you want to clash with me as always, you will always have an answer, LeDictator.
I like having the last word. At least I’m honest with myself, unlike you. BTW… I like that name.
 

Dirtyf1ghter

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I like having the last word. At least I’m honest with myself, unlike you. BTW… I like that name.

The problem is that you want to have the first word, the second, the third until the last. You're weird, aggressive and nasty and I'm not interested in you but I already told you that.
 
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Hinterland

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The problem is that you want to have the first word, the second, the third until the last. You're weird, aggressive and nasty and I'm not interested in you but I already told you that.

That's actually a perfect description of yourself.

I never understood why you keep on posting on this board even though you don't even watch or understand hockey. You've admitted yourself you're posting not based on own viewings but the ones of (most certainly imaginary) friends and EP stats. Furthermore, you also always think you're right even if half of hfboards tells you you're not. As if that's not enough you also always wanna have the last word. You're claiming to have such a busy life but somehow you still keep on finding plenty of time to write bs posts about a sport you're not watching and don't even understand.

If that's not weird then I don't know what is. I wish you all the best though. Get better soon!
 

nbducksfan19

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But they weren't and the debate was about the result of the draft. Not LeProspector's opinion.

You argued about where a draft eligible prospect would be picked, without believing that is where they should be picked? Either that is a strange and nuanced position, or you are full of it.
 
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Dirtyf1ghter

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That's actually a perfect description of yourself.

I never understood why you keep on posting on this board even though you don't even watch or understand hockey. You've admitted yourself you're posting not based on own viewings but the ones of (most certainly imaginary) friends and EP stats. Furthermore, you also always think you're right even if half of hfboards tells you you're not. As if that's not enough you also always wanna have the last word. You're claiming to have such a busy life but somehow you still keep on finding plenty of time to write bs posts about a sport you're not watching and don't even understand.

If that's not weird then I don't know what is. I wish you all the best though. Get better soon!
Sorry but I'm based on 32 Nhl teams choices.
 
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Giguere27

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Sorry but I'm based on 32 Nhl teams choices.

Everybody agrees with you, that Dionicio was a 5th round pick an obviously the teams decided to pick other players with the first 128 picks.


But since the draft, Dionicio really improved his play and had a great season in the OHL. And that the point that matters, not where he was drafted. There are so many players in the NHL who where drafted in the late rounds and later became stars.

I‘m pretty sure that Dionicio, if there would be a redraft today, would be picked earlier.
 

Dirtyf1ghter

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Everybody agrees with you, that Dionicio was a 5th round pick an obviously the teams decided to pick other players with the first 128 picks.


But since the draft, Dionicio really improved his play and had a great season in the OHL. And that the point that matters, not where he was drafted. There are so many players in the NHL who where drafted in the late rounds and later became stars.

I‘m pretty sure that Dionicio, if there would be a redraft today, would be picked earlier.
-3 in po with 17 points. Still unsigned...
 

Hinterland

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That‘s cherry picking. You keep back the fact that he is the defenseman with the most points in the OHL playoffs.

Perhaps the Ducks will sign him after the Memorial Cup when his season will be finished.

They won't. Since he's gonna move to Switzerland it wouldn't make sense for the Ducks to sign him. They're up to 48 contracts already and for as long as their teams aren't playoff contenders it would be stupid to sign Europe based prospects without a need to do so.
 
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Dirtyf1ghter

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That‘s cherry picking. You keep back the fact that he is the defenseman with the most points in the OHL playoffs.

Perhaps the Ducks will sign him after the Memorial Cup when his season will be finished.
Dragicevic was thé D with most points last year. Dionicio was already very high last year in points. Scouts watch défensive play. Most points with -3 AT 20 in a junior League its scary.
 
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