D Haoxi (Simon) Wang - Oshawa Generals, OHL (2025 Draft)

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I’ve never seen him play, only looked at his stat line.

If this guy was named Brett Sullivan and he was born and raised in Thunder Bay, would he be ranked in the first round?

Genuinely curious

Edit: he plays junior B in Ontario and has played 8 games in the O with zero points. What’s the deal?
 
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I’ve never seen him play, only looked at his stat line.

If this guy was named Brett Sullivan and he was born and raised in Thunder Bay, would he be ranked in the first round?

Genuinely curious

Edit: he plays junior B in Ontario and has played 8 games in the O with zero points. What’s the deal?

Listed at 6'6, 212lbs. NHL scouts/management=erect.
 
He's had more opportunities than 99.9% of players to ever set foot on NHL ice. He's been f***ing showered with developmental opportunities.
He's had more opportunity than a top Canadian talent who has been on the ice 6 days a week with the best players and coaches since before he learned to ride a bike?

How can you assert with a straight face that China has the same (or better?) development opportunities as Canada? Who cares if his mom owns 5 rinks. That's supposed to give him an edge over the academy kids that are on the ice for 14 hours per week in Canada?

I think you're vastly underestimating the value of being surrounded by the best resources the game has to offer day in and day out in the hockey hotbeds of the world. There's a reason why not a single Chinese national has broken into the league and it doesn't align with your opinion on the development opportunities in that country.
 
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Hey buddy you’re the one throwing a temper tantrum all over the thread because some child you never met may get drafted because you don’t like the country he’s from. The Great Chinese infrastructure that caused him to move to Canada as a young child just to play hockey? Use some common sense here. The Chinese leagues are not well organized, don’t contain structure. Uh yes the rinks are nice and this kid spent a lot of time becoming a great skater. Which has nothing to do with developing hockey players which is why Chinese junior leagues are non existent and nobody goes directly from China into a prominent junior league. Crappy little Latvian hockey schools produce a consistent and much more reliable stream of hockey players because there is some infrastructure which best no infrastructure.

Do you understand what Covid-19 was? He was not playing hockey in Canada when kid hockey in Canada was not happening due to the pandemic. It’s not that hard to understand. Once the pandemic ended, he came back to Canada and could play hockey in earnest. These are just facts.

Continue to spew all over the thread your bizarre hatred of this kid because you think he’s friends with Putin or whatever is motivating you.
You realized you lost the argument 2 posts ago, your ego is hurt and everything else is just you being defensive. Get over it, little guy.

Attack the argument and provide a single valid evidence-based point to back up your claims. That's all I'm asking.

Anyone who follows 2nd tier hockey knows me on these boards. It's exactly the reason I can tell this dude is not an NHL prospect. I watch and follow teams like Kazakhstan, I know the types of leagues these 2nd and 3rd rate junior kids play in.

You making that about China or politics is just weird and desparate. Stop derailing the thread and make a single valid point.
 
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He's had more opportunity than a top Canadian talent who has been on the ice 6 days a week with the best players and coaches since before he learned to ride a bike?

How can you assert with a straight face that China has the same (or better?) development opportunities as Canada? Who cares if his mom owns 5 rinks. That's supposed to give him an edge over the academy kids that are on the ice for 14 hours per week in Canada?

I think you're vastly underestimating the value of being surrounded by the best resources the game has to offer day in and day out in the hockey hotbeds of the world. There's a reason why not a single Chinese national has broken into the league and it doesn't align with your opinion on the development opportunities in that country.
Did you read my post? I don't think you did.

Hockey in Beijing experienced an inflow of massive amounts of investment in 2015-22. A lot more kids picked up playing hockey. They got Canadian, Finnish, Czech, Russian, Latvian, you name it, coaches at all levels of hockey.

No one older than Wang's age has experienced the full effects of any of that.

China U18 national team played in Division 3A in 16/17. They have since moved up 2 tiers and are now playing in Division 2A.

In order to raise NHL talent you need numbers. What's lacking in China is a larger amount of kids playing hockey, there's simply not enough talent. They have infrastructure, they have the schools, they have the coaches and they have (or had pre-2022) the money. Which means you hit a ceiling in development at some point. In a 'crappy hockey school' in Latvia you hit that ceiling at age 15/16 and most of the talented prospects move abroad.

In Beijing post-2015, that ceiling is lower.

But to imply that you were not able to develop your skills there and that this guy is some unpolished gem is pure, unadulterated fantasy.

Just name a single player at age 17/18 who has completely transformed from a mediocre OJHL-tier player into an NHL regular.

Also, since he is playing in OHL this season, you have to expect extreme progress as the season goes along. If you expect him to be NHL-tier in a few years, he has to become a solid major junior player in the span of a year, right?

I sure will be waiting.
 
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You realized you lost the argument 2 posts ago, your ego is hurt and everything else is just you being defensive. Get over it, little guy.

Attack the argument and provide a single valid evidence-based point to back up your claims. That's all I'm asking.

Anyone who follows 2nd tier hockey knows me on these boards. It's exactly the reason I can tell this dude is not an NHL prospect. I watch and follow teams like Kazakhstan, I know the types of leagues these 2nd and 3rd rate junior kids play in.

You making that about China or politics is just weird and desparate. Stop derailing the thread and make a single valid point.
What you didn’t prove anything. You made baseless conjecture that ignores all general attitudes and declares yourself the smartest guy in the room. Why would BU offer him a spot to play hockey if they thought he was topped out? Are they stupid? You’ve made no points or provided no evidence. You stated he’s has a golden decelopmemt which makes no sense. Why would he leave his country if that were the case in China? He’s just like players like Daniel Sprong and Nathan Walker as far as non trad hockey countries. They all had to leave their country at a certain age point around age 12 because there’s just nowhere else to go domestically and they wouldn’t be able to play in a serious junior league if they had hung around. You’ve refuted none of that. I’ve refuted you multiple times but you refuse to acknowledge and just declare yourself the “winner” based on nothing. Like a Russian coach said the rink was nice? Ok? That doesnt mean kids would be ready to play in the MHL. Youre absolutely clueless if you think Kazakhstan and Latvia and other crappy little hockey countries are even comparable to the struggles to become a hockey player in a place like China. You should look more at like Great Britain and Lithuania and various other places that don’t have proper hockey youth infrastructure.

You made it about politics because you insist he’s only going to get drafted for his nationality. You obviously think you are smarter than everybody else if you cannot even accept any other possibility.
 
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Did you read my post? I don't think you did.

Hockey in Beijing experienced an inflow of massive amounts of investment in 2015-22. A lot more kids picked up playing hockey. They got Canadian, Finnish, Czech, Russian, Latvian, you name it, coaches at all levels of hockey.

No one older than Wang's age has experienced the full effects of any of that.

China U18 national team played in Division 3A in 16/17. They have since moved up 2 tiers and are now playing in Division 2A.

In order to raise NHL talent you need numbers. What's lacking in China is a larger amount of kids playing hockey, there's simply not enough talent. They have infrastructure, they have the schools, they have the coaches and they have (or had pre-2022) the money. Which means you hit a ceiling in development at some point. In a 'crappy hockey school' in Latvia you hit that ceiling at age 15/16 and most of the talented prospects move abroad.

In Beijing post-2015, that ceiling is lower.

But to imply that you were not able to develop your skills there and that this guy is some unpolished gem is pure, unadulterated fantasy.

Just name a single player at age 17/18 who has completely transformed from a mediocre OJHL-tier player into an NHL regular.

Also, since he is playing in OHL this season, you have to expect extreme progress as the season goes along. If you expect him to be NHL-tier in a few years, he has to become a solid major junior player in the span of a year, right?

I sure will be waiting.
This is a completely different statement than saying he has more opportunity that 99.9% of NHLers. You made a sensational claim that is clearly untrue.

I don't care about the influx of resources into China, you don't turn a world class development system on like a light switch. There is more that goes into it than coaching and ice time. A lot more. Elite leagues, competition and tournaments to name 3. You referenced a Chinese U7 tournament that his mom hosted. Needless to say, that doesn't quite move the needle.

You're being unnecessarily aggressive and hyperbolic about this one. Scale it back and I'm sure there is a valid claim there somewhere but the 99.9% thing isn't rational.

I said nothing about the OJHL to NHL route so I'm not sure why you brought that up. Quote the person you intended that for.
 
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This is a completely different statement than saying he has more opportunity that 99.9% of NHLers. You made a sensational claim that is clearly untrue.

I don't care about the influx of resources into China, you don't turn a world class development system on like a light switch. There is more that goes into it than coaching and ice time. A lot more. Elite leagues, competition and tournaments to name 3. You referenced a Chinese U7 tournament that his mom hosted. Needless to say, that doesn't quite move the needle.

You're being unnecessarily aggressive and hyperbolic about this one. Scale it back and I'm sure there is a valid claim there somewhere but the 99.9% thing isn't rational.

I said nothing about the OJHL to NHL route so I'm not sure why you brought that up. Quote the person you intended that for.
You're clearly right about facing adversity and competition. That is not something you will find in the China junior leagues. Which is why Wang has been playing junior hockey in Canada since he was 12.

The U7 thing was mentioned in the context of the completely false claims of no infrastructure being available over there. These videos are easily accessible in public sources as proof of the state of their facilities and level of play.

What I'm talking about however is hockey fundamentals and things you can learn on your own by having access to ice and good coaching. And I stand by the 99.9%.

Having your mom build an entire ice rink, create a hockey school/club and enroll you in a skating school she funded - that's an extraordinarily lucky set of circumstances to be in, in China or anywhere else in the world.

If you'd read other posters critical of Wang, you'd realize that he does not possess any other hockey fundamentals other than skating.

It makes 0 sense to explain it away using the China card.
 
What you didn’t prove anything. You made baseless conjecture that ignores all general attitudes and declares yourself the smartest guy in the room. Why would BU offer him a spot to play hockey if they thought he was topped out? Are they stupid? You’ve made no points or provided no evidence. You stated he’s has a golden decelopmemt which makes no sense. Why would he leave his country if that were the case in China? He’s just like players like Daniel Sprong and Nathan Walker as far as non trad hockey countries. They all had to leave their country at a certain age point around age 12 because there’s just nowhere else to go domestically and they wouldn’t be able to play in a serious junior league if they had hung around. You’ve refuted none of that. I’ve refuted you multiple times but you refuse to acknowledge and just declare yourself the “winner” based on nothing. Like a Russian coach said the rink was nice? Ok? That doesnt mean kids would be ready to play in the MHL. Youre absolutely clueless if you think Kazakhstan and Latvia and other crappy little hockey countries are even comparable to the struggles to become a hockey player in a place like China. You should look more at like Great Britain and Lithuania and various other places that don’t have proper hockey youth infrastructure.

You made it about politics because you insist he’s only going to get drafted for his nationality. You obviously think you are smarter than everybody else if you cannot even accept any other possibility.
It does look like I'm smarter than you, but not everyone should be smart, I do not hold it against you. It's just that analysis or critical thinking is not your strong suit.

Why would he leave China? I literally elaborated on that in multiple of my previous posts. China does not have enough junior players to have a competitive junior league all the way up until their draft year. Moving away at 12 sounds about optimal. He was showered with opportunities until that age and his progression was likely efficient and close to its theoretical maximum in terms of skating and individual skills especially.

Ergo, bringing up China as an excuse or any kind of reasoning for an above average expected growth curve after the age of 17 makes no sense whatsoever.

He will likely improve about as much as any other 17 year old or likely not as much due to his size and strength already being close to peak.

I already explained that several times, but you are somehow immune to this very basic point and keep on trying to insult me.

Name me a single valid reason why should he improve at an above average rate if he hasn't done so while playing in Canada for 5 years?

And note that he has to improve at an extremely high rate, not an above average rate.
 
You realized you lost the argument 2 posts ago, your ego is hurt and everything else is just you being defensive. Get over it, little guy.

Attack the argument and provide a single valid evidence-based point to back up your claims. That's all I'm asking.

Anyone who follows 2nd tier hockey knows me on these boards. It's exactly the reason I can tell this dude is not an NHL prospect. I watch and follow teams like Kazakhstan, I know the types of leagues these 2nd and 3rd rate junior kids play in.

You making that about China or politics is just weird and desparate. Stop derailing the thread and make a single valid point.
You pay attention to tier 2 hockey but NHL scouts, Oshawa Generals and Boston University dont? They just look at nationality and height? Be serious.

The skating, size and strength are extremely high end. Id take a guy like this in the 2nd/3rd round over a guy like David Bedkowski anyday, a guy who will probably never do anything at a NHL level.

Wangs a risky pick, no doubt. I dont care how much on ince training he had in China... What kind of actual hockey was he playing? Imagine if Sam Dickinson had great training his whole life but the only real hockey he played was house league against guys younger than him? I cant imagine Wang ever played higher level hockey than that until he was a teenager.
 
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It does look like I'm smarter than you, but not everyone should be smart, I do not hold it against you. It's just that analysis or critical thinking is not your strong suit.
Personal attack. I can tell you're worked up by this topic, so I'll let it slide. But yes, you appear to believe you are smarter than quite literally everybody. As this is a draft prospect that you say has no conceivable reason to be a draft prospect. So you must believe everyone is dumb and only you are smart.
Why would he leave China? I literally elaborated on that in multiple of my previous posts. China does not have enough junior players to have a competitive junior league all the way up until their draft year.
Oh ok so you walked back your original statement about the great Chinese infrastructure. China can't even build a single junior league or anything that feeds into Junior Leagues but is also somehow a great place for a budding NHLer to be to grow up! Make it make sense (spoiler: you can't)
Moving away at 12 sounds about optimal. He was showered with opportunities until that age and his progression was likely efficient and close to its theoretical maximum in terms of skating and individual skills especially.
Yes, he learned to skate well. That's cool, that's one tool to becoming a hockey player. It's a much more involved sport that skating and supposedly stick-handling around for a while compared to what players in all the other countries are getting in terms of learning system/team play and playing in highly competitive environments. Are you also still denying that when he moved to Canada there were pandemic shutdowns? Considering he was not playing in a well-organized setting prior that, that would likely continue to leave him behind peers that had already done so for multiple years by then. But sure, just throw some kids of all ages into a disorganized setting, playing a sort of hybrid between House League and drop-in and see how they do.
Ergo, bringing up China as an excuse or any kind of reasoning for an above average expected growth curve after the age of 17 makes no sense whatsoever.
It's not an "excuse", it's just literally an explanation for why scouts may have some more intrigue than your typical player at this development point. It's not hard to comprehend, I'm sure a very smart person like you can think through why it may be the case. You are quite literally calling the player himself a liar when he spoke on lack of structure in China. An 'excuse'? How is the fact that he was playing in a place that has never, not ever, come remotely close to developing an NHL caliber player until very recently, not a 'reason' as to why he'd have a longer development curve? It's common sense.
He will likely improve about as much as any other 17 year old or likely not as much due to his size and strength already being close to peak.
Many scouts beg to differ with your assessment. We've established you've deiced they're dumb and you're smart.
I already explained that several times, but you are somehow immune to this very basic point and keep on trying to insult me.
Just to be clear, you insulted me, multiple times. I said nothing to you until you said I "willfully fooled" myself and then followed up to a one-sentence retort that him being a finished product was not a commonly held belief with another comment DEMANDING 'one piece of evidence' which my original post had plenty of, at which time you proceeded to say that pointing out my 'errors' (which you never did) 'made [me] feel bad' and proceeded now to say I lack analysis and critical thinking.
Name me a single valid reason why should he improve at an above average rate if he hasn't done so while playing in Canada for 5 years?
He has improved quite a bit. So that's already a nonsensical claim. Do you think Boston University offered him a spot on their hockey team the day he arrived in Canada out of China?
And note that he has to improve at an extremely high rate, not an above average rate.
Yes, call him a longshot, dark horse, whatever you want. My original post said there's a high likelihood that he is not even an AHL player. It's a risk/reward, simple as that. The draft isn't very good and certainly not very deep. Someone likely makes a gamble at some point because the things he has (size/skating) are harder to teach than good systems play and awareness.
 
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You're clearly right about facing adversity and competition. That is not something you will find in the China junior leagues. Which is why Wang has been playing junior hockey in Canada since he was 12.

The U7 thing was mentioned in the context of the completely false claims of no infrastructure being available over there. These videos are easily accessible in public sources as proof of the state of their facilities and level of play.

What I'm talking about however is hockey fundamentals and things you can learn on your own by having access to ice and good coaching. And I stand by the 99.9%.

Having your mom build an entire ice rink, create a hockey school/club and enroll you in a skating school she funded - that's an extraordinarily lucky set of circumstances to be in, in China or anywhere else in the world.

If you'd read other posters critical of Wang, you'd realize that he does not possess any other hockey fundamentals other than skating.

It makes 0 sense to explain it away using the China card.
Anyway, I disagree with how you're valuing all that stuff. Owning your own rink is not some ace up the sleeve compared to the rich Canadian/American kid that is getting 3 hours of ice per day.

And who knows, the mom building a hockey school could have been a detriment. Who did she hire to run it? Was it managed well? Did she surround him with ankle skaters to make him feel special? I don't know but opening a school doesn't mean a whole lot to me until I know more of the details. What I do know is that if money is not an issue and my kid has 5 years to develop a talent, the most efficient way is to put him into an established program, not building from the ground up.

If Laurence Stroll was only interested in Lance being a world champion he would not have rebuilt Aston Martin from the ground up, he would have paid for a seat in a better race program. (can you tell I'm a car guy...)

Anyway, suggesting that a Chinese kid with those things has had more opportunity to develop than a wealthy Canadian kid is crazy.

And to be clear I'm not arguing anything about Wang's skills. I'm simply arguing about how much you blew his development opportunities out of proportion.

Anyway, I'm out.
 
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I’ve never seen him play, only looked at his stat line.

If this guy was named Brett Sullivan and he was born and raised in Thunder Bay, would he be ranked in the first round?

Genuinely curious

Edit: he plays junior B in Ontario and has played 8 games in the O with zero points. What’s the deal?
If his name was Brad Smith and you'd never seen him play, you probably wouldn't be questioning it this much.
 
The fact that he is Chinese-born is the root of 90% of the criticism in this thread. He is a legit prospect. Overrated because of his size and athleticism as compared to his skill, perhaps. But if he was a white Canadian/American in the exact same situation, he wouldn't receive a tenth of the criticism that he has here.
 
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The fact that he is Chinese-born is the root of 90% of the criticism in this thread. He is a legit prospect. Overrated because of his size and athleticism as compared to his skill, perhaps. But if he was a white Canadian/American in the exact same situation, he wouldn't receive a tenth of the criticism that he has here.
I think he’s receiving criticism because of the bolded.

This prospect should not be in first round contention. It’s as simple as that.
 
I think he’s receiving criticism because of the bolded.

This prospect should not be in first round contention. It’s as simple as that.

Did someone criticize the prospect?

I don't. Most users seem to agree he's an interesting project. Most of the discussion, at least initially, was around whether he's worth a 1st round pick or not. My personal opinion is no. I wouldn't pick a player top~64 (depending on the quality of the draft) who isn't even good enough to play major junior in his draft season.

If you wanna get drafted into the NHL you usually have to not just play but also dominate in major junior. So I'm finding it hard to believe that Wang is gonna be a 1st rounder. Maybe some teams see him as a potential PR stunt? If he does work out I'd imagine it would be a huge opportunity to grow your brand in the Chinese market. I do see the upside but taking into consideration where he's right now he's otherwise definitely more of a late round pick in my book. I can see why teams would wanna pick him a bit earlier but not in round 1. I think that would be a mistake. I think there's a chance he can become an NHL player but he's more likely to bust. While that goes for most of the kids available he's also far behind most of these kids in terms of skills and it's gonna be an uphill climb for him if he wants to be more than a stay at home 6th/7th defenseman kinda guy. If he makes it to the NHL, which is unlikely to begin with, I think he's still unlikely to log big minutes. In the earlier rounds of the draft I think you wanna try to get a slice of the elite skill available, find yourself some potential top4 defensemen, top6 forwards.
 
The fact that he is Chinese-born is the root of 90% of the criticism in this thread. He is a legit prospect. Overrated because of his size and athleticism as compared to his skill, perhaps. But if he was a white Canadian/American in the exact same situation, he wouldn't receive a tenth of the criticism that he has here.
I recall Gabriel Eliasson receiving criticism from the same angle when taken in the second round this year.

I don't think it's a racial thing. I think there's a form of hockey gatekeeping where people want to believe that unicorn traits aren't enough to make it. We want our prospects well rounded and dynamic because we want to believe that the sport is too complex to be mastered by singular traits.
 

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