Olympics: Czechs vs Swiss Part 2!

[rimpirate]

Depends on what time period you choose. I will use Olympics+WJC+WC results since 2005

Canada have 2 olympic golds and 1 olympic silver for 3 olympic medals. 4 world championship golds and 5 world championship silvers for 9 medals. At the u20 level, Canada have 8 golds, 4 silvers and 1 bronze medal since 2005, 13 medals in total. That adds up to 25 medals for Canada since 2005.

Russia have 4 world championship golds, 2 world championship silvers and 5 world championship bronze medals since 2005, a total of 11 medals. In the world juniors, Russia have 1 gold, 7 silvers and 6 bronzes (for 14 medals). A total of 25 medals.

Sweden have two olympic medals since 2005, 1 gold and 1 silver. At the worlds, Sweden have 4 golds, 1 silver and 3 bronze medals for 8 medals. At the world juniors, Sweden have 1 gold, 5 silvers and 2 bronze medals for 8 medals. Sweden have therefore won 6 golds, 7 silvers and 5 bronzes for 18 medals since 2005. Add the 90s, the golden era of Swedish hockey, and this looks better though.

USA have 1 olympic silver since 2005, alongside 4 world championship bronzes. At the mens level, I think you could say Finland have been better than the US at winning medals this century. However, the USA have 9 world junior medals since 2005 (4 golds, 1 silver, 3 bronzes. That equals 14 medals for the USA since 2005.

Finland have 1 olympic silver, 2 olympic bronzes since 2005. 3 medals. They have 2 golds, 5 silvers and 2 bronzes at the WC. 9 medals. At the junior level, they have 3 golds and two bronzes. 5 medals. This is gives Finland 5 golds, 6 silvers 6 bronzes for 17 medals, which is more than the US, and way more than I thought. Using the year 2005 as a cut of date for recency, I will admit this is good. Much better than I thought. I admit I am wrong. I guess my perception of Finland being weaker than one of Czech Republic/USA comes from either very recent US superiority or historical Czech dominance. My perception of Finland as a weaker medal candidate could also be a result of few high level golds and lots of bronzes. Maybe if I randomly picked another time period, this would look different.

You realize you're posting this in a game thread CZE-SUI?

 

[rimpirate]

Does it matter? I was asked a question and answered. I discuss what I want where I want.

Please, keep going on on yout tangent. I find the contrast between Swedish and Czech hockey fans quite entertaining.

 

[Jon Riley]

Depends on what time period you choose. I will use Olympics+WJC+WC results since 2005

Canada have 2 olympic golds and 1 olympic silver for 3 olympic medals. 4 world championship golds and 5 world championship silvers for 9 medals. At the u20 level, Canada have 8 golds, 4 silvers and 1 bronze medal since 2005, 13 medals in total. That adds up to 25 medals for Canada since 2005.

Russia have 4 world championship golds, 2 world championship silvers and 5 world championship bronze medals since 2005, a total of 11 medals. In the world juniors, Russia have 1 gold, 7 silvers and 6 bronzes (for 14 medals). A total of 25 medals.

Sweden have two olympic medals since 2005, 1 gold and 1 silver. At the worlds, Sweden have 4 golds, 1 silver and 3 bronze medals for 8 medals. At the world juniors, Sweden have 1 gold, 5 silvers and 2 bronze medals for 8 medals. Sweden have therefore won 6 golds, 7 silvers and 5 bronzes for 18 medals since 2005. Add the 90s, the golden era of Swedish hockey, and this looks better though.

USA have 1 olympic silver since 2005, alongside 4 world championship bronzes. At the mens level, I think you could say Finland have been better than the US at winning medals this century. However, the USA have 9 world junior medals since 2005 (4 golds, 1 silver, 3 bronzes. That equals 14 medals for the USA since 2005.

Finland have 1 olympic silver, 2 olympic bronzes since 2005. 3 medals. They have 2 golds, 5 silvers and 2 bronzes at the WC. 9 medals. At the junior level, they have 3 golds and two bronzes. 5 medals. This is gives Finland 5 golds, 6 silvers 6 bronzes for 17 medals, which is more than the US, and way more than I thought.

Using the year 2005 as a cut of date for recency, I will admit this is good. Much better than I thought. I admit I was underestimating Finlands recent rise in the hockey world. I guess my perception of Finland being weaker than one of Czech Republic/USA comes from either very recent US superiority or historical Czech dominance. My perception of Finland as a weaker medal candidate could also be a result of few high level golds and lots of bronzes. Their roster on paper is rarely close to any of the four other current powerhouses, in my perception. Maybe if I randomly picked another time period, this would look different. However, one guy tried to say "Finland always medal". That is really my main grudge. They miss the medals more often than they medal in these tournaments.

It's very interesting, but no, wait. it's not. This is a Czechia - Switzerland match thread not a Finland sucks Sweden rules one. Please go somewhere else.

 

[rimpirate]

My argument was that Finland can't be considered a medal lock in international tournaments and that they tend to be worse than Canada, USA, Russia and Sweden. Is that unreasonable?

No, I can understand that position, although the Finns have a habit of medalling of late.
What I fail to see is the relevance of this discussion to a game between Czechia and Switzerland.

 

[Jon Riley]

Very nice game from the swiss side and finally the first win. But i have to give probs to the czechs they played well. I think the swiss are kind of a mismatch for the czechs a bit since we have a lot of fast forwards who are good skaters and the czechs have many tall not so mobile defenders.

That's very true. The two matches have been very even, but the difference in speed was pretty evident this time. PLaying another match would still be a coin flip, if the Czech would have managed to score on the two massive chances they had in the second (I think?) the match would have gone the other way. They managed to build a lot of good chances despite a pretty flawless swiss defensive game. Discipline and not gifting power plays was the main key I think.

 

[BigBadBoar]

My personal WTF moment of the game was when the Czech commentator introduced the Hyka - Sedlák - Lenc line as "our young force united", considering the youngest of those three is soon about to turn 28. I think this said it all about the Czech team performance in this tournament.

When you bring in a roster full of guys well over 30, who had peaks of their careers several years ago, you can't expect the team to be competitive in skating. The Swiss simply have a quality skating team, and that was enough to eliminate the Czechs, because skating is the basics in hockey, the conditio sine qua non. Everything from stickhandling via passing to finishing is a superstructure build upon your skating abilities. Even the ability to play physical is substantially determined by how fast you can be. If you are always a step behing your opponent, you can barely outmuscle him even when you are the bigger and stronger guy.

I can't blame the players, it was apparent they were trying hard. The coaching/management staff are the ones to blame. Hopefully they are going to be fired now and replaced by somebody more competent. I would like to see Vaclav Varada as the head coach for the World Championship.

 

[Czechboy]

I wonder if Czech will have a new coach for WHC Finland 2022 tournament already.

He said he'd quit so I'd expect one.

Criteria is friends with the other guys and have played in the NHL.

 

[Kuracmugger]

That's very true. The two matches have been very even, but the difference in speed was pretty evident this time. PLaying another match would still be a coin flip, if the Czech would have managed to score on the two massive chances they had in the second (I think?) the match would have gone the other way. They managed to build a lot of good chances despite a pretty flawless swiss defensive game. Discipline and not gifting power plays was the main key I think.

Yeah in the second on the pp the czechs had some really dangerous chances the swiss had more luck this time and Genoni made some really nice saves. We need his world championship 2018 performances the next game to qualifiy for the semis.

 

[Czechboy]

My personal WTF moment of the game was when the Czech commentator introduced the Hyka - Sedlák - Lenc line as "our young force united", considering the youngest of those three is soon about to turn 28. I think this said it all about the Czech team performance in this tournament.

When you bring in a roster full of guys well over 30, who had peaks of their careers several years ago, you can't expect the team to be competitive in skating. The Swiss simply have a quality skating team, and that was enough to eliminate the Czechs, because skating is the basics in hockey, the conditio sine qua non. Everything from stickhandling via passing to finishing is a superstructure build upon your skating abilities. Even the ability to play physical is substantially determined by how fast you can be. If you are always a step behing your opponent, you can barely outmuscle him even when you are the bigger and stronger guy.

I can't blame the players, it was apparent they were trying hard. The coaching/management staff are the ones to blame. Hopefully they are going to be fired now and replaced by somebody more competent. I would like to see Vaclav Varada as the head coach for the World Championship.

I laughed at that too! Youngest guy was Spacek (12 minutes?) and Smejkal (10 or so).

Not that we would've since Swiss were better but what would our team look like tonight against the Finn's in the less than 21 hours? Sobotka was injured too (another old guy).

It was a lot of miscasting. Also, small ice and Jasek and Chlapik spent years in the AHL and CHL (and even a few in the NHL) so leave them behind for guys that only play on big ice.lol

And this isn't totally an age thing as I thought Cervenka and Krejci were our best forwards. Krejci was paired with 3 wingers - Stransky, Hyka and Sedlak. 1 goal between them in 4 games (and it was a fluke! Behind the line on Russian goalie).

Took them 4 games to figure out to play Klok more and Jerabek less but he was 2 silly penalties. He was a culprit on a lot of plays but I don't recall him getting any points? Kundratek scored, Klok scored, Sulak scored...

Kovar also struggles on small ice and did very little. Having him paired with Sobotka gave us 2 very similar sized and smaller players. I have time for both but they were miscast.

 

[BigBadBoar]

I laughed at that too! Youngest guy was Spacek (12 minutes?) and Smejkal (10 or so).

Not that we would've since Swiss were better but what would our team look like tonight against the Finn's in the less than 21 hours? Sobotka was injured too (another old guy).

It was a lot of miscasting. Also, small ice and Jasek and Chlapik spent years in the AHL and CHL (and even a few in the NHL) so leave them behind for guys that only play on big ice.lol

And this isn't totally an age thing as I thought Cervenka and Krejci were our best forwards. Krejci was paired with 3 wingers - Stransky, Hyka and Sedlak. 1 goal between them in 4 games (and it was a fluke! Behind the line on Russian goalie).

Took them 4 games to figure out to play Klok more and Jerabek less but he was 2 silly penalties. He was a culprit on a lot of plays but I don't recall him getting any points? Kundratek scored, Klok scored, Sulak scored...

Kovar also struggles on small ice and did very little. Having him paired with Sobotka gave us 2 very similar sized and smaller players. I have time for both but they were miscast.

The coaching was a complete nonsense. Špaček, Smejkal were among the few forwards who were at least able to skate roughly on the level of the Swiss team. They got ridiculously little ice time. Krejčí and Červenka were quite good, but for example Řepík was a disaster. That guy is basically an average extraliga player now. Jeřábek was a parody to a defenseman. Both Zohorna brothers are getting slower with age, especially Tomáš.

Also, it should be pointed out that Hrubec was another weak spot. 2 of the 4 goals were shots a pro hockey goalie should save. Especially the 4th goal was a clear goalie's mistake.

The sad thing is that such good skating and hard working winger like Blümel was just in the taxi squad. He's too young, propably, needs to gain experience, you know. :/

 

[Czechboy]

The coaching was a complete nonsense. Špaček, Smejkal were among the few forwards who were at least able to skate roughly on the level of the Swiss team. They got ridiculously little ice time. Krejčí and Červenka were quite good, but for example Řepík was a disaster. That guy is basically an average extraliga player now. Jeřábek was a parody to a defenseman. Both Zohorna brothers are getting slower with age, especially Tomáš.

Also, it should be pointed out that Hrubec was another weak spot. 2 of the 4 goals were shots a pro hockey goalie should save. Especially the 4th goal was a clear goalie's mistake.

The sad thing is that such good skating and hard working winger like Blümel was just in the taxi squad. He's too young, propably, needs to gain experience, you know. :/

All of this!

I was not a big fan of Hrubec at Worlds... he .902 and finished 24th in goalies. In 4 games he let in a weak goal every game

Denmark penalty shot
Swiss power play goal
First Russian goal under his arm
The 3 even strength Russian goals in third
He looked lost on the 1st Swiss power play goal
The 4th goal was a great shot but stoppable

That's in 4 games. I don't blame him entirely but that is a lot of bad goals. I sitll blame the management for creating the team this way.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

I can imagine there will be some heads rolling in the Czech hockey federation. The Czechs have been in a decline recently but this performance at the olympics is just unacceptable for a traditional hockey-power like the Czech Republic.

You are delusional.

 

[Mestaruus]

He said he'd quit so I'd expect one.

Criteria is friends with the other guys and have played in the NHL.

Too bad Jagr is still playing, thus can't coach yet. I'd love to see Jagr as assistant coach for the Czech team in the next WHC and creating spirit if he can't be there anymore as a player.

 

[Swipes]

My personal WTF moment of the game was when the Czech commentator introduced the Hyka - Sedlák - Lenc line as "our young force united", considering the youngest of those three is soon about to turn 28. I think this said it all about the Czech team performance in this tournament.

When you bring in a roster full of guys well over 30, who had peaks of their careers several years ago, you can't expect the team to be competitive in skating. The Swiss simply have a quality skating team, and that was enough to eliminate the Czechs, because skating is the basics in hockey, the conditio sine qua non. Everything from stickhandling via passing to finishing is a superstructure build upon your skating abilities. Even the ability to play physical is substantially determined by how fast you can be. If you are always a step behing your opponent, you can barely outmuscle him even when you are the bigger and stronger guy.

I can't blame the players, it was apparent they were trying hard. The coaching/management staff are the ones to blame. Hopefully they are going to be fired now and replaced by somebody more competent. I would like to see Vaclav Varada as the head coach for the World Championship.

Zaruba? He's been disconnected from reality since 2010. I can't stand him now.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Canada will be an easy win for Sweden in my opinion.

why

 

[lamini]

Too bad Jagr is still playing, thus can't coach yet. I'd love to see Jagr as assistant coach for the Czech team in the next WHC and creating spirit if he can't be there anymore as a player.

I don't. We needed someone to create the spirit when we had good/decent players and we needed someone to change them into tournament winning team. Now we need to start from scratch. Even with all our NHLers we lack the talent to medal at WCh.

We need someone to take young players and try to create team for future. We need to change how ČSLH works, how youth leagues works, how development works...and people that can make those changes would lose control over players, some of their teams may get relegaten in process and they may (and many should) lose their position of power and influence. They won't do it. Fans will find another sport to follow and once sponsors notice it, money will dry out....than the responsible people will try to do something (probably ask MŠMT for more money IMO), but it will be too late.

 

[Czechboy]

Zaruba? He's been disconnected from reality since 2010. I can't stand him now.

He wanted Smid.lol