CXLVIII - Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo had 'productive' meeting with Phoenix mayor

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Meruelo couldn't figure out how to pay the rent on time in Glendale -- at least that's what he said -- because his organization was so incompetent.

He couldn't build an arena anywhere in the Greater Phoenix Area when he owned an actual NHL franchise.

Now he's going to build an arena when he doesn't even own a franchise anymore?

I would sure like to see that!
 

sneakytitz

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Meruelo couldn't figure out how to pay the rent on time in Glendale -- at least that's what he said -- because his organization was so incompetent.

He couldn't build an arena anywhere in the Greater Phoenix Area when he owned an actual NHL franchise.

Now he's going to build an arena when he doesn't even own a franchise anymore?

I would sure like to see that!

Thus the beauty of this deal - he's on a "prove it" timeline.
 

TheGreenTBer

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Fertitta still looking for a bargain deal. That Mason-Dixon comment is still costing him.
It's funny, he could have had a team so much cheaper years ago and it bit him in the ass.

Ain't no bargains anymore. You have to pay up to get anything and values aren't going down.
 

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im rusty so forgive me ... does this suggest the league thinks Houston is either a more viable market or has better ownership/arena capacity than Utah? why wouldn't they move the team to Houston? the expansion fee?

seems recent franchise winners tend to be either deep pocket owners, in high potential markets with an arena or shovels in the ground (i.e., expansion into Vegas and Seattle) or super deep pocket owners, in good enough markets with an arena or shovels in the ground (i.e., relocation back into Winnipeg.) are mr. smith's pockets in utah deep enough to pull this off? is someone else wearing pants too?

on another note, ive given 'yotes fans a rough ride over the years, but man, this is a gut punch while on the ground. feel for ya. one from Houston
Apparently no one from Houston came calling to wave a billion dollars under their nose.

That might have made a titch of difference.
 

TheGreenTBer

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I don't mean to offend Coyotes fans because I really do think NHL hockey can work in AZ and I hope they get another chance someday, but I really, really hope Alex Meruelo fails terribly and f***s off forever.

He's going to win the auction and it's going to piss me off.
 

LT

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Other than maybe Mike Modano. Can’t think of anyone else who did a stretch between both.

I actually had a section typed up about that but deleted it after some consideration. I had the same thought, that there's a direct and important link to the franchise icon.
 

TheLegend

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I don't mean to offend Coyotes fans because I really do think NHL hockey can work in AZ and I hope they get another chance someday, but I really, really hope Alex Meruelo fails terribly and f***s off forever.

He's going to win the auction and it's going to piss me off.

We’ve been getting offended since 2008…. It’s an acquired taste. :laugh:

I wouldn’t worry about that auction though. A lot can happen in five years.
 

Voight

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The franchise is staying behind. The “history” is part of the franchise.

Well, unless you do goofy things like pretending the Baltimore Ravens aren’t actually the original Cleveland Browns.


Do the current Ottawa Senators hold the history of the Ottawa Silver Seven?

The NBA gave the Charlotte Hornets the original teams history back despite the Pelicans technically being that teams current iteration. Different league but there is a precedence in pro sports.

There was a 58 year gap between the Ottawa NHL teams compared to 15 for Winnipeg, not exactly an apt comparison.

Winnipeg did what…. 15k+ in 30 minutes??

Great response for sure, but isn’t the thing it’s being framed as.

To be fair Winnipeg was a different beast. There was an large existing NHL fanbase and they had previously had an NHL team whereas SLC is a new market.
 
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hammer42

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Giving Arizona a 2nd chance at NHL. team is about as stupid as giving Atlanta 3rd chance at team when it is clear that Georgia & Arizona are not hockey markets that is why they failed in the first place .

Let me tell something hockey has grown as big as it is going to get in the USA. it will never reach the popularity of the 90's ever again so the NHL. better get used being the 4th most popular sport in the USA. .

When the NHL. decides to expand again go to markets where you can make a lot of money & make it fast they should go markets that are starving for NHL. hockey not markets that hockey is a pure novelty sport & once that wears off they be playing in half or even quarter full arenas losing 100's of millions of dollars so if the NHL. was smart they would go to the markets listed bellow .

Houston
Southern Ontario (Hamilton)
Quebec City
Kansas City
 

madhi19

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I don't mean to offend Coyotes fans because I really do think NHL hockey can work in AZ and I hope they get another chance someday, but I really, really hope Alex Meruelo fails terribly and f***s off forever.

He's going to win the auction and it's going to piss me off.
You want a not so bold but really cynical prediction, he win the auction, and build his real estate play without an arena anyway. It's even more land for condo after all.
 

Big Z Man 1990

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I think if the NHL team in SLC is successful I could see U of Utah bringing their men's ice hockey team from club level to NCAA D1 with affiliate membership in the Big Ten (where I also want their men's lacrosse team to move). Utah is in the AAU which is important as all but one current Big Ten school (including both full and affiliate and counting future members) is in the AAU.
 

BMN

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Winnipeg give what essentially amounted to a "presale" option to previous Manitoba Moose ticket buyers? They were kind of launching from a different base.

Also re: the history.........eh, I'm nearly 47 now and have a "who cares anymore?" attitude. Winnipeg wants to retire Hawerchuk's number? Sure, why not? Utah wants to do it too? Go for it. Want a record book solely for games played for Winnipeg based NHL teams? Fine. Want to do it the other way and have a Thrashers-Jets 2.0 record book? Why not?

What is history anyway besides a weird entanglement?.....
 
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GKJ

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I think if the NHL team in SLC is successful I could see U of Utah bringing their men's ice hockey team from club level to NCAA D1 with affiliate membership in the Big Ten (where I also want their men's lacrosse team to move). Utah is in the AAU which is important as all but one current Big Ten school (including both full and affiliate and counting future members) is in the AAU.
They would join NCHC if they went to D1
 
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GKJ

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Craig Morgan said on PHNX pod that the Suns are looking at putting their G-League team (an expansion team) to Mullett, which sounds to me that it would then make it impossible to have the Roadrunners move in. Would be a hilarious turn on Meruelo to make a deal with Ishbia.

Also lots of ripping Meruelo.

 

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Winnipeg give what essentially amounted to a "presale" option to previous Manitoba Moose ticket buyers? They were kind of launching from a different base.

Also re: the history.........eh, I'm nearly 47 now and have a "who cares anymore?" attitude. Winnipeg wants to retire Hawerchuk's number? Sure, why not? Utah wants to do it too? Go for it. Want a record book solely for games played for Winnipeg based NHL teams? Fine. Want to do it the other way and have a Thrashers-Jets 2.0 record book? Why not?

What is history anyway besides a weird entanglement?.....
Well, I'm 64 and watched the WCHL Jets in the 1960's-70's and the WHA Jets in the 1970's both play at the Winnipeg Arena in uniforms that I still identify with the NHL Jets 1.0 and 2.0. They all look like one franchise to me.

You can take the Jets out of Winnipeg, but you can't take Winnipeg out of the Jets.

Ron Low, Chris Oddleifson, Bobby Hull, Dale Hawerchuk, Connor Helleybuck -- they're all Winnipeg Jets to me :)

(By God, those junior Jets were awful, and the WHA Jets were great 🙂 It was beautiful when Bobby Hull, Ulf Nilsson, Anders Hedberg and Lars-Erik Sjoberg came to town. I think every girl in my ninth-grade class fell in love with Nilsson and/or Sjoberg)
 
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TheLegend

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Craig Morgan said on PHNX pod that the Suns are looking at putting their G-League team (an expansion team) to Mullett, which sounds to me that it would then make it impossible to have the Roadrunners move in. Would be a hilarious turn on Meruelo to make a deal with Ishbia.

Also lots of ripping Meruelo.

As I said way back…. ASU values appearances more than anything (their athletic department notwithstanding)

If you had a choice of dealing with Ishiba or Meruelo right now which would you choose?
 
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htpwn

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I don't post much on HF anymore and it has been a long while since I lasted posted here on BoH. I remember the days of Jimmy Ball-Silly and Jerry Moyes, the Ice Edge clowns and perpetual fortnights, the weird lawsuits from random Bahamas-based companies and Glendale City Council meetings. It has been a strange ride.

I first got into these discussions because I wanted to see the team move to Southern Ontario. I still think the NHL has missed an opportunity in refusing to push aside the Leafs' objections and force a second team into this market. This is the largest hockey market in the world, but it is also a dramatically growing and changing city, and the NHL is ignoring those changes to the detriment to its market share, its revenues, and most importantly, to the sport itself.

At the same time, my views on the NHL's Southern expansion have shifted over the years. I would not describe myself as a convert, but I do now get it. I understand the importance of having teams in places like Phoenix, Atlanta, and Houston. I'm not convinced, mind you, that Salt Lake City is a place where the NHL should have ended up. It may be a growing market, but it still only has a population around 2 million, with no hockey pedigree, and an established NBA club. I do wonder if the league got a bit starry-eyed over this Ryan Smith fellow.

As for the Coyotes themselves, I came to dual conclusions a few years ago about the team: The first was that keeping the NHL in Phoenix was personal for Gary Bettman and the second was that Bettman's crusade to do it was half-assed and produced bad outcomes for all involved. In the case of the former, I think you still see that commitment in the league agreeing to declare the Coyotes an "inactive franchise," and the general concensus among insiders that the NHL wants to come back. In the case of the latter, I think you see it in Meruelo and his botched bid for the Tempe. It was Bettman and co. who approved Mereulo as an owner, it was Bettman and co. who brought in Daryl Jones before that, it was Bettman and co. who went to war with Glendale over a pittance of arena rent. If the NHL was really committed to this market, they could have put their money where their mouth was and probably would have made money in the end (Meurelo did!), but they didn't. Instead we got a parade of ass clowns as owners, arena uncertainties, and other sideshows that hurt fans and embarassed the league.

Anyways, I suppose this my sign-off on the Coyotes threads (and my thoughts on the relocation in general), even if I checked out long ago. I want to express my sympathies towards Coyotes fans and my hope that the NHL really does return in short-order. I also want to thank everyone for their insightful commentary and debates over the years, both to those still around, to those no longer posting, and of course to those who are no longer with us. Cheers, everyone.
 
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