CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[Coyotedroppings]

A letter of intent is a good sign, but you can't say much more than that right now.

Could be the first step towards stability, or another dead end. It's nice they seem to have a concrete plan though.

You had a like, until “concrete.”

 

[Ciao]

I don't think the Coyotes will be moving anytime soon, if ever.

The LOI is just a baby step on one of many paths to an arena. There is no new arena on the horizon.

I think the Coyotes will play in the Mullet for quite a while, and the NHL has no real desire to move the franchise elsewhere.

It's an old story that will play out for much longer yet.

"Final Countdown?" No. Not at all. There is no end in sight.

 

[LPHabsFan]

I don't think the Coyotes will be moving anytime soon, if ever.

The LOI is just a baby step on one of many paths to an arena. There is no new arena on the horizon.

I think the Coyotes will play in the Mullet for quite a while, and the NHL has no real desire to move the franchise elsewhere.

It's an old story that will play out for much longer yet.

"Final Countdown?" No. Not at all. There is no end in sight.

How many steps does it take to realize that you've never been on a path at all, but rather it's been a circle all along, and that all you're doing is tiring yourself out with no end in sight until you just keel over and die from exhaustion?

 

[Ciao]

How many steps does it take to realize that you've never been on a path at all, but rather it's been a circle all along, and that all you're doing is tiring yourself out with no end in sight until you just keel over and die from exhaustion?

I guess until the owner and/or the league grow tired of the situation, but neither of them show any sign of that.

They don't look like they're cat the end of their rope yet.

 

[aqib]

Yep, while largely ignoring the team's games on TV.

EDIT: Local TV ratings for 2021-2022: 0.16 (down 58% from the previous year… which would have made the previous year’s ratings under 0.3)

I've asked many times if there was such a huge fan base that simply can't get to games because of traffic, why the TV ratings aren't higher.

 

[powerstuck]

I don't think the Coyotes will be moving anytime soon, if ever.

The LOI is just a baby step on one of many paths to an arena. There is no new arena on the horizon.

I think the Coyotes will play in the Mullet for quite a while, and the NHL has no real desire to move the franchise elsewhere.

It's an old story that will play out for much longer yet.

"Final Countdown?" No. Not at all. There is no end in sight.

How many steps does it take to realize that you've never been on a path at all, but rather it's been a circle all along, and that all you're doing is tiring yourself out with no end in sight until you just keel over and die from exhaustion?

I feel like it's something that could pop up during the next CBA negotiations.
Either from players about installations being not up-to NHL standard or the whole 31 other owners themselves realizing that the fire pit in which they've been throwing money is far away from being just that a black hole money burning pit.

I know that many will say that even if Coyotes became profitable, another team would take their place. Sure, but dropping 20-30 millions a year (if not more) in revenue share, to a team that very little to improve it's situation, not all owners must be happy with that.

It's one when Rangers and Leafs share their 200 million revenue with 30 other teams so everyone is ''healthy''....it's another when they do it so Coyotes can write their books in black ink instead of red.

 

[aqib]

He basically says nothing, but it allowed him to produce a lot of bluster that got him clicks and one local Arizona political news reporter to boost him.

I agree with this. Neil deMause's whole schtick is railing against any sports deal anywhere and basically saying any deal where anyone gets a subsidy or even infrastructure is bad.

He and I have gotten into it a few times over the fact that he never includes income taxes from team payrolls in his "analysis." We were talking about what Minnesota spent on the Vikings. He always that money spent by people attending games would be spent on other things so the sales taxes generated by sports is a wash. So I said basically that even if people would spend the money they would spend going to Vikings games going out to dinner, while you may get the sales taxes you won't get the income taxes. He responded that well the restaurants would have to hire more people to serve all the people going out to dinner. I was bored that day and actually ran the numbers on how many people would have to be hired if everyone spent all the money going to Vikings games on going out to dinner in Minnesota and it was basically you'd hire a bunch of waiters making $15 an hour and the total salaries would about to like $5 million which is about what you pay a middle linebacker. He didn't like that.

 

[Voight]

I doubt Bettman loses much sleep if Coyotes end up moving. He didn't when Thrashers moved.

Coyotes are his pet project, Thrashers were not.

Also, his ego.

 

[TheLegend]

Coyotes are his pet project, Thrashers were not.

Also, his ego.

They had ownership groups willing to keep the Coyotes in Arizona and at that time an arena to play in..

The Thrashers had no home to play in at all.

It was as simple as that.


Fun Fact: When Rick Westhead started covering this he didn't even know where Glendale was.

 

[PainForShane]

Coyotes are his pet project, Thrashers were not.

Also, his ego.

Did you really quote a tweet from well over 18 months ago so you could pretend it is still somehow relevant?

 

[Fatass]

Coyotes are his pet project, Thrashers were not.

Also, his ego.

So if the club lost 33 mil in 2021, how much more have they lost since? The total loss could be up over 200 mil.
This sounds bad, but the league has revenue sharing. Do teams like Toronto, who make big profits, send money to the Coyotes to help them out.

 

[mouser]

So if the club lost 33 mil in 2021, how much more have they lost since? The total loss could be up over 200 mil.
This sounds bad, but the league has revenue sharing. Do teams like Toronto, who make big profits, send money to the Coyotes to help them out.

Arizona (and half the teams in the league) receive revenue sharing, but the amount they receive is not based on how profitable they are. The maximum per team revenue sharing is also capped, so they're not receiving more playing at ASU then they would have in Glendale.

If Arizona somehow doubled their revenues in 2023-24 the amount Toronto pays into the revenue sharing pool would actually increase--the pool is based on a % of league-wide revenue, Arizona would receive minimal or no sharing while another team(s) would receive increased revenue sharing.

 

[Fatass]

Arizona (and half the teams in the league) receive revenue sharing, but the amount they receive is not based on how profitable they are. The maximum per team revenue sharing is also capped, so they're not receiving more playing at ASU then they would have in Glendale.

If Arizona somehow doubled their revenues in 2023-24 the amount Toronto pays into the revenue sharing pool would actually increase--the pool is based on a % of league-wide revenue, Arizona would receive minimal or no sharing while another team(s) would receive increased revenue sharing.

Didn’t Gary Betman say a while back that the Coyotes had better revenue in the ASU rink than in Glendale? Would the losses reported be before or after revenue sharing?

 

[mouser]

Didn’t Gary Betman say a while back that the Coyotes had better revenue in the ASU rink than in Glendale? Would the losses reported be before or after revenue sharing?

Forbes doesn't have access to actual NHL financial data, and they don't disclose their methodology. So we don't know whether their guesses include revenue sharing or not.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Didn’t Gary Betman say a while back that the Coyotes had better revenue in the ASU rink than in Glendale? Would the losses reported be before or after revenue sharing?

Wasn't Bettman, but rather it was Gutierrez. Regardless, when you think about it, it's quite simple and makes perfect sense that it's the case. Having said that, when you're pulling in the amount of revenue they are, getting more than that isn't as big of a flex as it sounds like it is or that he was making it out to be.

 

[TheLegend]

Didn’t Gary Betman say a while back that the Coyotes had better revenue in the ASU rink than in Glendale? Would the losses reported be before or after revenue sharing?

Bettman referenced Xavier Gutierrez’s statement that they made more.

To put it in proper context….

The announcement was they made more ticket revenue at Mullett than their final season in Glendale.

They averaged something in the mid 11k that season. Down from the 13.5-14.5k the previous 3-4 seasons (excluding CoVID).

Glendale’s early pre-season announcement that they were not going to renew the lease obviously had an effect on that.

But… that’s also only ticket revenue. The other tangible incomes like concessions, in-arena advertising and parking were much less.

 

[Voight]

Did you really quote a tweet from well over 18 months ago so you could pretend it is still somehow relevant?

Doesn't really matter how old the tweet is when the last part of it remains true.

Moving the team would be tantamount to an acknowledgement that Gary Bettman was wrong about the Phoenix market.

 

[TheLegend]

Doesn't really matter how old the tweet is when the last part of it remains true.

Sure.... until you take into account how they entered the market to begin with.

The one thing about a narrative is.... there's always at least one pertinent detail left out.

 

[PainForShane]

Doesn't really matter how old the tweet is when the last part of it remains true.

I'm sorry, what?

Imagine finding an article from 15 years ago that said something like, "The Blackhawks just drafted Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane so they have a bright future." Certainly the 2023 future of the Blackhawks is bright (Bedard) but it doesn't have anything to do with the team drafting Toews / Kane 15 years ago. Which is obvious.

That's basically what you did here / the type of argument you're defending. Seems weird.

***

More importantly who cares what Gary thinks about any of this. In the past we had owners ok with losing money, now we have an owner who is not ok with losing money long term so is looking to build a more centrally located arena, this way the team hopefully won't lose money going forward like we would have if we'd stayed in Glendale. The idea is not hard to understand.

Anyway that's the current reality, which is materially different than 2 years ago. Yes it would probably be embarrassing for the league to leave Phoenix (just like it is embarrassing for any team to leave any market, look at the As in MLB) but what does that have to do with getting a new arena. If we're able to find / build a legitimate place to play there's clearly no reason to leave

 

[Tawnos]

It’s cute that people think Bettman cares one bit about the PR associated with leaving Phoenix, if it came to that.

 

[SirJW]

Does the NHL check these threads to prove that AZ is a hot hockey market?

 

[TheLegend]

Does the NHL check these threads to prove that AZ is a hot hockey market?

If the NHL relied upon the comments of HFBoards posters to make their business decisions, they might as well fold up the shop.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

If the NHL relied upon the comments of HFBoards posters to make their business decisions, they might as well fold up the shop.

Are you telling me GM's aren't listening to our shitposting?

How else can you explain Jim Benning, huh?

 

[GKJ]

Does the NHL check these threads to prove that AZ is a hot hockey market?

I’d imagine they’re aware we’re up to 147 threads about this stuff, so they know it’s good content, and content is king

 

[ponder719]

I’d imagine they’re aware we’re up to 147 threads about this stuff, so they know it’s good content, and content is king

Given the effectiveness of the league's marketing strategy since, say, 1994, I wouldn't be so sure they recognize good content.