CXLIX - FINAL thoughts on the Arizona Coyotes

[Shwan]

One important detail to keep in mind with Colangelo: he is often referred to as the “owner” of the Suns, but in reality he was a minority owner with the general managing partner title. Same situation with the MLB Diamondbacks, he organized a consortium of other investors and was initially the face of the franchise, but owned a minority share of the team.

Colangelo didn’t have any independent wealth. Any prospective purchase of the Coyotes/Jets would have required Colangelo to convince a group of investors to front the money. Presumably targeting the primary owners of the Suns. I haven’t researched who the primary background Suns owners were during Colangelo’s “ownership” term.

Proto-LeBlanc

 

[StreetHawk]

Dallas yes, DFW Metroplex is massive. A second arena would've done fine there.

Being the second arena would then come down to who pays for it. IIRC, city contributed to the AAC, so they likely would not be interested in supporting a second one. So, the Stars would likely have had to finance it on their own or have it built in a different county to where the AAC is located in order to get some government funding. But, have to factor in location relative to the fanbase otherwise it's another Glendale situation.

 

[aqib]

Arena opened in 1992, 4 years before the jets arrived. Plus, factor in construction timeline of 2 years, it's 6 years before the jets arrived when shovels hit the ground. Add in plans, zoning, financing, it's likely about 8 years in like 1988 or 1989 at the latest when the plans started for the arena.

I mean, if Dallas/Denver had the same situation as Arizona with Ball Arena/AAC built 3-4 years before the Stars/Nords arrive, is their fate likely the same as the Coyotes was? I don't think Denver market needed a 2nd indoor 18K arena. Probably not Dallas either.

This is where I come back to the question of how much does it cost to make a basketball only arena suitable for hockey. Originally Barclays was supposed to be for hockey as well then they scaled it back and supposedly that saved some money but in the end they wound up having a competitor arena 20 miles away.

 

[Golden_Jet]

This is where I come back to the question of how much does it cost to make a basketball only arena suitable for hockey. Originally Barclays was supposed to be for hockey as well then they scaled it back and supposedly that saved some money but in the end they wound up having a competitor arena 20 miles away.

Leafs building was originally for Raptors, and leaf’s came in late and changed it to include hockey.
If not done at planning stage, it’s a harder makeover.

 

[StreetHawk]

This is where I come back to the question of how much does it cost to make a basketball only arena suitable for hockey. Originally Barclays was supposed to be for hockey as well then they scaled it back and supposedly that saved some money but in the end they wound up having a competitor arena 20 miles away.

I believe when the coyotes arrived the estimated cost was about half the original cost of the arena to make it nil compatible. Think footprint originally came in at like $130 mill or so back in 1992. Cost in 96/97 to make it nhl ready was at least $60-70 mill back then. I mean pre Covid when phx offered to tear it down vs renovate it for the nhl I think the cost was too high, well above the $250 mill in renovations they did just to maintain the current structure. It might have been close to $400 mill to do the structural change plus the update. Would have made more sense to build a new one instead.

Arenas have gone for under $200 mill in the 90’s to $350-$400 mill in the 2000-2010, to now like $650 mill and up in the 2020’s.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I believe when the coyotes arrived the estimated cost was about half the original cost of the arena to make it nil compatible. Think footprint originally came in at like $130 mill or so back in 1992. Cost in 96/97 to make it nhl ready was at least $60-70 mill back then. I mean pre Covid when phx offered to tear it down vs renovate it for the nhl I think the cost was too high, well above the $250 mill in renovations they did just to maintain the current structure. It might have been close to $400 mill to do the structural change plus the update. Would have made more sense to build a new one instead.

Arenas have gone for under $200 mill in the 90’s to $350-$400 mill in the 2000-2010, to now like $650 mill and up in the 2020’s.

It’s like 900 million US now, it has gone crazy.

 

[aqib]

I believe when the coyotes arrived the estimated cost was about half the original cost of the arena to make it nil compatible. Think footprint originally came in at like $130 mill or so back in 1992. Cost in 96/97 to make it nhl ready was at least $60-70 mill back then. I mean pre Covid when phx offered to tear it down vs renovate it for the nhl I think the cost was too high, well above the $250 mill in renovations they did just to maintain the current structure. It might have been close to $400 mill to do the structural change plus the update. Would have made more sense to build a new one instead.

Arenas have gone for under $200 mill in the 90’s to $350-$400 mill in the 2000-2010, to now like $650 mill and up in the 2020’s.

They spent quite a bit in the 2003 renovation. If they Suns and Coyotes were under one ownership group I think they probably would have done that.

 

[StreetHawk]

They spent quite a bit in the 2003 renovation. If they Suns and Coyotes were under one ownership group I think they probably would have done that.

In 2003, the Coyotes were on their way to Glendale. The Glendale Arena opened in about Dec 2003, half a season before the work stoppage of 2004. Decision to leave was made back in around 2000 once they made the agreement with Glendale.

But, yes, when you are the 2nd pro team in an indoor arena that was recently built, you are just a tenant if the 2 teams are owned by different owners. Jets would have needed to arrive like 7 or so years earlier to get the same type of deal that the Mavs/Stars got with the AAC where they shared in the construction costs with the city.

 

[TheLegend]

They spent quite a bit in the 2003 renovation. If they Suns and Coyotes were under one ownership group I think they probably would have done that.

In 2003, the Coyotes were on their way to Glendale. The Glendale Arena opened in about Dec 2003, half a season before the work stoppage of 2004. Decision to leave was made back in around 2000 once they made the agreement with Glendale.

But, yes, when you are the 2nd pro team in an indoor arena that was recently built, you are just a tenant if the 2 teams are owned by different owners. Jets would have needed to arrive like 7 or so years earlier to get the same type of deal that the Mavs/Stars got with the AAC where they shared in the construction costs with the city.

(citing this from memory so there’s going to be things missing)

Steve Ellman bought out Gluckstern’s share of the franchise in 1999. He had a dead shopping mall in South Scottsdale he wanted to revitalize and came up with the plan to build an arena on the site as an anchor. Wanted to have the city fund its construction but they were leery about Ellman’s financial ability to pull it all off (and history proved the city right)

Biggest red flag to that was Ellman needed to bring Jerry Moyes in at the last minute to complete the purchase. Otherwise he was going to lose his $25 million deposit he had down and the league had Paul Allen ready to take the Coyotes off to Portland.

Now Burke is on the record stating the Coyotes only had about 4 years left they could stay at Footprint given the escalation in player salaries at the time.

Could they have sold the team to Colangelo? Hard to say…. as @mouser pointed out Jerry Colangelo was a “managing partner” with little skin in the game and not all that financially well off. Colangelo also was busy with the DBacks pushing for that World Series run in 2001.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I believe when the coyotes arrived the estimated cost was about half the original cost of the arena to make it nil compatible. Think footprint originally came in at like $130 mill or so back in 1992. Cost in 96/97 to make it nhl ready was at least $60-70 mill back then. I mean pre Covid when phx offered to tear it down vs renovate it for the nhl I think the cost was too high, well above the $250 mill in renovations they did just to maintain the current structure. It might have been close to $400 mill to do the structural change plus the update. Would have made more sense to build a new one instead.

Arenas have gone for under $200 mill in the 90’s to $350-$400 mill in the 2000-2010, to now like $650 mill and up in the 2020’s.

It’s like 900 million US now, it has gone crazy.

It's too much. I feel inflation is a part of it but can't prove it. The cost of materials is also insane.`

This is where I come back to the question of how much does it cost to make a basketball only arena suitable for hockey. Originally Barclays was supposed to be for hockey as well then they scaled it back and supposedly that saved some money but in the end they wound up having a competitor arena 20 miles away.

I have to agree here. Although I wonder how UBS will do if the islanders go through a rebuild. They made a mistake taking out the ice sheet from Barclays