CXLIX - FINAL thoughts on the Arizona Coyotes

[hangman005]

We could have a pretty good franchise if we could take Fertitta’s money, Quebec’s building, and Atlanta’s market size and make it one team.

Then again all a potential Phoenix NHL owner needs to do would be employ Carmen San Diego, if cartoons have taught me anything buildings can be stolen just like that.

 

[sneakytitz]

How much is liquid?

Oh bless your heart.

Billionaires can borrow against their financial assets (stocks) or fixed assets (land, buildings) and save on capital gains taxes in the process since they don't have to cash them out.

 

[Skidooboy]

You seem to get your pants in a bunch every time someone doesn’t act lock step to your opinion.

The simple fact is you did a couple of Google maps searches and suddenly you’re an expert on what traffic is like in the Phoenix metro area….. and think because you make long drives to see games in Winnipeg that everyone else should too.

Funny thing is… I spent years making the same similar argument in F40 with people WHO ACTUALLY DO THAT COMMUTE, and for many of them it’s an issue.

no.


I'm not the one making absurd special circumstances arguments...You are.


The fact is you won't accept that MILLIONS of fans drive through demonstrably worse conditions, just as far, in major centres with just as much traffic if not more than Phoenix has.

All because your only excuse for the failure of the market(again 30 + years at EVERY LEVEL of pro hockey, multiple owners, multiple arena locations, multiple leagues) is ?

TRAFFIC!!!!!!!! something every other market has. But.... somehow It's just so much worse in Phoenix than anywhere else in the NHL.

Please do drone on about how NOBODY in the world has to commute to work... I mean I work in the country and at least 5 of my coworkers commute over several miles of Gravel and over 30 miles of highway, summer and winter rain or shine....for commutes of up to an hour.... something by your statement is nigh on impossible and an absurd claim for me to even dare suggest.........

and somehow you act like no other players in the NHL have to drive to work across town. and they all must live within 15 mins of their arena and practice facilities. and NONE of them ever live on the outskirts, or the other side of big cities from where they play......and how no other fans in the world are faced with a large commute...

I've lived in Vancouver Toronto, Winnipeg, Small towns, I've gone to games in Buffalo, Detroit, TO, MTL.... I've been to Phoenix, I've been to Dallas, Ive been to Tampa.

Urban sprawl and long commutes are the norm not the exception.

your argument about poor poor Az and it's impossible to manage commute that is soo much harder than everyone else in North America?

it's laughable.

 

[Voight]

OK, league, now do the right thing. Return the 1972-1996 history of the franchise to Winnipeg, and the 1997-2023 history of the franchise to Utah. Keep the branding in reserve for if a new ownership group wants it.

Yup, this would be the perfect scenario.

 

[TheLegend]

Oh bless your heart.

Billionaires can borrow against their financial assets (stocks) or fixed assets (land, buildings) and save on capital gains taxes in the process since they don't have to cash them out.

I know that….. Meruelo wasn’t going to build his ED with pocket change either.

But you have to have some plan in place to pay those loans back and if you leveraged out to the hilt then it’s a whole different matter.

And if you recall Standadd and Poors didn’t think much of Meruelo’s credit rating.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Oh bless your heart.

Billionaires can borrow against their financial assets (stocks) or fixed assets (land, buildings) and save on capital gains taxes in the process since they don't have to cash them out.

Not necessarily that easy.

Most billionaires are probably already leveraged to a certain extent - for exactly the reasons you mentioned. The question is whether Fertitta could borrow ANOTHER one billion (or whatever) on top of whatever his existing debt load is.

 

[TheLegend]

Yup, this would be the perfect scenario.

Winnipeg can have or celebrate the Jets 1.0 history all they want. Most of the Coyotes fans of HF have been saying that for years.

 

[Voight]

Winnipeg can have or celebrate the Jets 1.0 history all they want. Most of the Coyotes fans of HF have been saying that for years.

& since the Coyotes are dead in the water, the league needs to restore that history back to the team. I would hope they do so in the next year or so.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Winnipeg can have or celebrate the Jets 1.0 history all they want. Most of the Coyotes fans of HF have been saying that for years.

As a Winnipeg Jets fan I was never super worried about not having the franchise records. Jets have had no issue honouring former Jets 1.0 players, they will frequently cite "Winnipeg NHL records" rather than "franchise records".

But if those records now literally belong to no one - why not transfer them to Jets 2.0? I'm sure the Jets would be happy to put the Thrashers-era records "on the shelf" for any future Atlanta franchise (nobody in Winnipeg cares how many goals Kovalchuk scored with the franchise).

 

[sneakytitz]

Not necessarily that easy.

Most billionaires are probably already leveraged to a certain extent - for exactly the reasons you mentioned. The question is whether Fertitta could borrow ANOTHER one billion (or whatever) on top of whatever his existing debt load is.

Valid question, and I don't know the specifics of his portfolio (Landry or otherwise), but I think he knows he's on the hook for at least $1.2 billion and won't need to scrounge to cover that.

He also has said he wants his NHL purchase to be a group purchase and Weekes has called it "Tillman's group" a few times, so he's more than likely not the only one paying into this. If I had to guess, his cousins that poured $500 million into their new private equity firm that focuses on, among other things, entertainment, are involved.

 

[aqib]

Or does he? He plunked $2 billion down on the Rockets and another $650 million buying a steakhouse chain right after saying publicly (paraphrasing) “NHL teams have trouble below the Mason-Dixon Line”

We had a thread here based on a transcript from The White House where Fertitta was spending lunch during the pandemic with then President Trump and a couple other billionaires discussing PPP loans.

He made a $5.6 billion bid for the Commanders. He's got the money but is he willing to spend it on an NHL team. I keep referencing his original bid for the Rockets back in the 90s. He bid $80 million, Alexander bid $85 million and lost. Paul Allen probably could have gotten a team if he had been willing to bid higher and he clearly had the money.

 

[TheLegend]

He made a $5.6 billion bid for the Commanders. He's got the money but is he willing to spend it on an NHL team. I keep referencing his original bid for the Rockets back in the 90s. He bid $80 million, Alexander bid $85 million and lost. Paul Allen probably could have gotten a team if he had been willing to bid higher and he clearly had the money.

Speaking of Paul Allen… had he took the Coyotes to Portland back in ‘99 you have to wonder where things would be right now?

PNW and western Canada could’ve been one competitive division.

(yeah I’m having one of those “what if” moments)

 

[TheLegend]

& since the Coyotes are dead in the water, the league needs to restore that history back to the team. I would hope they do so in the next year or so.

Well Bettman was asked about that…. Gave the standard Bettman answer.

 

[KevFu]

Bring it to a vote and say that franchise histories are automatically transfered from moved franchise to old market's new franchise going forward. It's like "We hold it for you until we get a team."


Now, the important question: Who could emerge in PHX as a possible owner to bring the NHL back?

 

[GKJ]

Then again all a potential Phoenix NHL owner needs to do would be employ Carmen San Diego, if cartoons have taught me anything buildings can be stolen just like that.

We could put it in actual San Diego and make it more perfect.

Bring it to a vote and say that franchise histories are automatically transfered from moved franchise to old market's new franchise going forward. It's like "We hold it for you until we get a team."


Now, the important question: Who could emerge in PHX as a possible owner to bring the NHL back?

They would definitely have to be local people, the league and market won’t trust anyone else. A good play would be to get Shane Doan on board, or maybe a Larry Fitzgerald, someone who has some weight in the market.

 

[sneakytitz]

Bring it to a vote and say that franchise histories are automatically transfered from moved franchise to old market's new franchise going forward. It's like "We hold it for you until we get a team."


Now, the important question: Who could emerge in PHX as a possible owner to bring the NHL back?

No clue, and according to Morgan there are a few but let's tackle your first hypothetical: why would you sour, insignificantly or not, a deal if you don't have to? If there are people, collectively or individually, that are interested in a team in Arizona under their timeline, why would the NHL take anything off the table, e.g. team history, before you had a chance to hear them out fully? They may not have a care in the world about it and agree with most of us that it belongs to Winnipeg, but until they say so, there is absolutely no reason to start restricting what the Arizona expansion entails.

Smart business move. I'd like to think it means they're talking to people but at the very worst, it means that Gary is keeping all his options open for when they do.

 

[TheLegend]

No clue, and according to Morgan there are a few but let's tackle your first hypothetical: why would you sour, insignificantly or not, a deal if you don't have to? If there are people, collectively or individually, that are interested in a team in Arizona under their timeline, why would the NHL take anything off the table, e.g. team history, before you had a chance to hear them out fully? They may not have a care in the world about it and agree with most of us that it belongs to Winnipeg, but until they say so, there is absolutely no reason to start restricting what the Arizona expansion entails.

Smart business move. I'd like to think it means they're talking to people but at the very worst, it means that Gary is keeping all his options open for when they do.

You take your time and have good established relationships within the local political communities.

 

[sneakytitz]

You take your time and have good established relationships within the local political communities.

JJ Watt was already tweeting a few hours ago about reviving the Coyotes, with Shane Doan involved, when someone said he should get involved to bring them back. But yeah, do it right from the start and get the local favorites behind it and involved. The word JJ used for reviving was "properly".

 

[joelef]

So who will the Canadian media hate now?

 

[LPHabsFan]

Honestly, I think this is perfect. Arizona will be building their next Arena/ED right around the time Atlanta 3.0 is failing and needs to be moved. The timing will work out splendidly.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Honestly, I think this is perfect. Arizona will be building their next Arena/ED right around the time Atlanta 3.0 is failing and needs to be moved. The timing will work out splendidly.

The way things are going, it'll be more likely that Quebec 3.0 moves there.

 

[TheLegend]

JJ Watt was already tweeting a few hours ago about reviving the Coyotes, with Shane Doan involved, when someone said he should get involved to bring them back. But yeah, do it right from the start and get the local favorites behind it and involved. The word JJ used for reviving was "properly".

Yeah..... saw that. But JJ Watt has ties to Houston, too.

Now that Bettman confirmed that Meruelo formally told the league he's no longer pursuing reactivating the Coyotes, I don't think this changes any potential timelines much.

Ryan Smith spent two years just to get to a point where he was formally asking for an expansion team and ended up with the Coyotes dropped in his lap. An expansion team would have probably tacked two more years on to get either the Delta Center remodeled or a new arena plan put together.

The clock now goes back to zero on Arizona.

 

[Melrose Munch]

So who will the Canadian media hate now?

Too busy talking about the decline of the sport.

 

[joelef]

Too busy talking about the decline of the sport.

I agree but the Canadian media and Quebec fans need a new boogeyman that can move to a “ deserving “ market

 

[TheLegend]

Ta ta gaming license