CXLIX - FINAL thoughts on the Arizona Coyotes

[GreenHornet]

You can’t convince me the Atlanta Flames existed. I don’t care how much photographic evidence you show me.

Believe (or in this case, don't believe) what you want. I'm a hockey fan to this day because of the Atlanta Flames.

 

[Tawnos]

Believe (or in this case, don't believe) what you want. I'm a hockey fan to this day because of the Atlanta Flames.

Are you sure you’re not a bot?

 

[GreenHornet]

Are you sure you’re not a bot?

Nah, my aide Kato will vouch for me.

 

[aqib]

The histories are really a case-by-case basis, but there is close symmetry with whether you keep the name or not.

The Flames recognize their history in Atlanta, maybe not effusively since it has nothing to do with Calgary, but it is accepted, especially as time elapsed. The LA Rams have bounced around, including now 2 stints in LA, but their histories in Cleveland and St. Louis are correctly adhered. Similarly with the Browns as the Ravens are not acknowledged as the continuation (who in turn do not associate themselves with the Colts).

If you revive the team name, it’s because its history means enough, and you want to keep/revive that identity. That should remain with the city, the Jets previous history should be their own as they wish to acknowledge Winnipeg hockey. Dale Hawerchuk and Teemu Selanne did not play in Arizona, they should not be inherently associated with it. Additionally, the Oklahoma City Thunder, multiple times, have tried to get Gary Payton to be recognized and have his number retired, and he has repeatedly told them to go f*** themselves because he only wants to be associated with Seattle.

FWIW the Ravens offered the Colts $5 million for the name and the Colts countered with $25 million. Considering the record price for an NFL team at the time was $192 million at the time that was a huge asking price. There was talk before it was announced that the new Browns would be an expansion team that the Colts would move to Cleveland and become the new Browns which would have freed up the Colts name and history to go back to Baltimore. To this day the Colts are only referred to as Indianapolis on the scoreboards at Ravens games.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Alex Meruelo Jr., who graduated from USC weeks before his father purchased the team, was quickly promoted through the ranks of the Coyotes organization. Within a couple of years, he would soon have a say on business across several arms of the franchise, including player personnel decisions. According to former employees who spoke to FOS, Meruelo Jr. had a larger role in the team’s day-to-day operations than he did.

“Numerous people told his dad how bad his son was, but [Meruelo Sr.] had blind faith, blind trust, or blind love for his son,” one former employee says. “He responded by saying that it was his [Meruelo Jr.’s] team and [his son] was the reason he bought the team. All Jr. cared about was lifestyle and fashion.”"

I will say this with regards to the bolded, as someone who is personally into the fitted scene, it makes the rumors of Meruelo Jr. using his dad's 'pro sports owner' cache to get in the door of his own interests (mainly, fashion and hypebeast shit) pretty correct considering it lead to this:

And even then, taking out that Hat Club is fiercely Arizona, really hinky in terms of timing.

 

[Headshot77]

Did F40 get Thanos snapped?

 

[TheLegend]

Did F40 get Thanos snapped?

Moved to the archive section.

 

[LT]

I will say this with regards to the bolded, as someone who is personally into the fitted scene, it makes the rumors of Meruelo Jr. using his dad's 'pro sports owner' cache to get in the door of his own interests (mainly, fashion and hypebeast shit) pretty correct considering it lead to this:

And even then, taking out that Hat Club is fiercely Arizona, really hinky in terms of timing.

I've been saying something along these lines for a while

I don't know if the levels of incompentency displayed would've come from someone in the business as long as AM Sr. He only stepped in when it was too late

 

[Voight]

The Dysfunctional Family Affair That Poisoned Arizona Coyotes

To quote:

"Financial obligations were left unaddressed as he tried to renegotiate commitments including paying the team’s travel costs and reimbursing area vendors, a team that already ranked in the bottom-third in player salary commitments sank further, and his gruff nature irked local political leaders and fellow NHL owners alike.

“He wasn’t paying bills,” says one former team employee who spoke to Front Office Sports on condition of anonymity. “He can deny it all he wants, but that stuff is true. His reputation was horrible. No one wanted to work with him. He didn’t treat employees very well and he was just a cheap ass. That was the reality of the situation.”

Alex Meruelo Jr., who graduated from USC weeks before his father purchased the team, was quickly promoted through the ranks of the Coyotes organization. Within a couple of years, he would soon have a say on business across several arms of the franchise, including player personnel decisions. According to former employees who spoke to FOS, Meruelo Jr. had a larger role in the team’s day-to-day operations than he did.

Although the sources say some staffers held their ground against Meruelo Jr., including general manager Bill Armstrong, many others found themselves overruled. Desperate employees went to the top to appeal for intervention.

“Numerous people told his dad how bad his son was, but [Meruelo Sr.] had blind faith, blind trust, or blind love for his son,” one former employee says. “He responded by saying that it was his [Meruelo Jr.’s] team and [his son] was the reason he bought the team. All Jr. cared about was lifestyle and fashion.”"

Source: frontofficesports.com/alex-meruelo-jr-arizona-coyotes-collapse/

AM Jr is a the perfect example of the "owners son" stereotype. Entitled, thinks he knows best, is put in charge of things despite having no experience etc.

 

[rojac]

Believe (or in this case, don't believe) what you want. I'm a hockey fan to this day because of the Atlanta Flames.

The first game with NHL teams I ever saw live was an exhibition game in Ottawa between the Leafs and the Atlanta Flames in 1972 or 1973.

 

[Reaser]

The first hockey game I went to was the Tacoma Rockets ... they're in Kelowna now.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Moved to the archive section.

But there's no content when I try to open it. Do I need to adjust my user settings to view it?

Edit...nevermind, I can see it now. The site must've updated it.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

The baseball team already has an identity. The thing about the Braves is the same as with the Chicago Blackhawks. There's nothing inherently wrong with the name "Braves". It's the logo and the chanting and the tomahawk chop that gets really cringey. If you took away the native american imagery you could still rock the name "Braves".

Even if the Braves decided to change identities - why on earth would they pick up the name from the former hockey team?

Plus - I wouldn't rule out an Atlanta 3.0 being called the Thrashers. There are at least some hockey fans with a positive association to the name. That'll be up to the new owners though, not you or I.

Under my proposal for the Braves to become the Thrashers - the look of the old hockey team would be used almost verbatim, with two changes - the color "Thrasher Ice Blue" is now referred to as "Thrasher Sky Blue", and the hockey stick in the original Thrashers logo is changed to a baseball bat.

The four basic uniform designs of the hockey team as shown here ( Atlanta Thrashers - The (unofficial) NHL Uniform Database ) would be the basis for four of the baseball team's alternates. There would also be Capitol Copper and Peachtree Gold alternates. These would make for more visually appealing uniforms than what the Braves currently have now.

 

[BMN]

If the Braves ever did change their name (SPOILER ALERT: They won't), they'd sooner name themselves the Hammers (after Hank Aaron) than adopt the brand of a hockey team that only lasted 12 years and never won anything.

Sorry if that sounds cruel but I do believe it to be 100% true.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

If the Braves ever did change their name (SPOILER ALERT: They won't), they'd sooner name themselves the Hammers (after Hank Aaron) than adopt the brand of a hockey team that only lasted 12 years and never won anything.

Sorry if that sounds cruel but I do believe it to be 100% true.

Again the idea is to continue the bird theme of Falcons and Hawks.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

I would love an NFL to come to Toronto. I just don't know who is going to pay $6 billion for a team and then $2 billion for the stadium here. Ted Rogers was interested in bringing various teams here over the years when the Rogers Centre was still a dual-purpose stadium. But he's dead and they just put in a few hundred million to make it baseball only. I also don't know when the NFL is going to expand and how high Toronto will be on their list.

Now when we talk about a second team here. If we assume the fee is $1.3 billion and then you have another $1 billion for indemnification payments lets say $500M to make Copps NHL ready. That's $2.8 billion. People here say no one will pay that. So if no one will pay $2.8 billion for Hamilton why would anyone pay $3 billion for the a team in Arizona?

Andlaurer's bringing the Sens to Copps in 7 years. #Bookit

 

[BMN]

Again the idea is to continue the bird theme of Falcons and Hawks.

I get what you're going for but I assure you Braves fans would not care. The Braves also have a wider swath of "not just Georgia but the southeast generally" fans that grew up during the "America's Team" era and again if a-name-change-that-will-never-happen happened, that fanbase (including the actual fans in Atlanta) would want something honouring the team's past before caring about the bird theme.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

I don't know if the levels of incompentency displayed would've come from someone in the business as long as AM Sr. He only stepped in when it was too late

I feel like with what has come out at this point, it wouldn't have mattered who was running the ship, it would have run aground eventually. AM Sr. simply didn't have the cash flow that one needs to make an always fluid situation harden, and AM Jr. was a nepo baby blowhard who thought he knew a lot more then he did, and also tried to use his own hobbies and interests as connection points for the team.

 

[TheLegend]

I feel like with what has come out at this point, it wouldn't have mattered who was running the ship, it would have run aground eventually. AM Sr. simply didn't have the cash flow that one needs to make an always fluid situation harden, and AM Jr. was a nepo baby blowhard who thought he knew a lot more then he did, and also tried to use his own hobbies and interests as connection points for the team.

He had a very deep hole from the start.

What hurt him was his methods to turn around money losing enterprises don’t translate well in the pro sports world.

Had the arena business model in Glendale been workable (ie the Coyotes and Westgate were still a whole unit) he might have been able to turn it around. But we’ll never know.

 

[HisIceness]

Phoenix as a market is too big to just simply ignore forever. It won't be anytime soon but they'll get another crack at it I think. Hopefully this time it will be someone who actually is worth a damn.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

He had a very deep hole from the start.

What hurt him was his methods to turn around money losing enterprises don’t translate well in the pro sports world.

Had the arena business model in Glendale been workable (ie the Coyotes and Westgate were still a whole unit) he might have been able to turn it around. But we’ll never know.

Did he give all those businesses to his son?

 

[TheLegend]

Did he give all those businesses to his son?

Which “businesses” are you referring to?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Which “businesses” are you referring to?

You claim that what made him successful in prior business didn't translate to owning an NHL franchise.

But I don't see how that has anything to do with giving his dipshit son so much influence in the team. Which also makes Sr. an idiot himself.

What should be very obvious to everyone at this point was that the guy was careless and negligent. It was already obvious when it was reported that the guy was stiffing vendors, it was obvious when he got outspent on TED (and the very instant this happened it should have been obvious to everyone else it was going to be a lameduck year because there was no arena on the horizon and you had the PA, a key stakeholder, screaming) and it became more and more obvious as time went on without significant progress or updates.

Saying his business practices didn't translate is still being overly being charitable. Be straight. He was a charlatan who couldn't be bothered for X reason.

 

[Tawnos]

You claim that what made him successful in prior business didn't translate to owning an NHL franchise.

But I don't see how that has anything to do with giving his dipshit son so much influence in the team. Which also makes Sr. an idiot himself.

What should be very obvious to everyone at this point was that the guy was careless and negligent. It was already obvious when it was reported that the guy was stiffing vendors, it was obvious when he got outspent on TED (and the very instant this happened it should have been obvious to everyone else it was going to be a lameduck year because there was no arena on the horizon and you had the PA, a key stakeholder, screaming) and it became more and more obvious as time went on without significant progress or updates.

Saying his business practices didn't translate is still being overly being charitable. Be straight. He was a charlatan who couldn't be bothered for X reason.

A lot of people in Meruelo's class stiff vendors. The point being made isn't that he wasn't doing those things. It's not even that he doesn't do those things in his other businesses. And even then, it's not defending him for operating that way.

It's just saying that those tactics which are workable in other businesses end up not being workable in pro sports.

 

[BMN]

Phoenix as a market is too big to just simply ignore forever. It won't be anytime soon but they'll get another crack at it I think.

Houston's bigger by every metric and they've been waiting forever.

Which shows you that the metro profile has to meet circumstance. We know Phoenix has the profile but the circumstance may never come...or it could arrive in three years.