CXLIX - FINAL thoughts on the Arizona Coyotes

[jigglysquishy]

That may not be up to them.

It ultimately is.

It doesn't matter what any suit or piece of paper says. Hull, Hawerchuk, and Selanne matter to Jets fans. Kovalchuk doesn't.

It really doesn't matter what anything is officially. Jets fans don't care about the Thrashers history.

The Jets have honoured players from their WHA and NHL past. It doesn't matter what the NHL corporate does. Jets fans and organization recognize the Jets' past and that's ultimately all that matters.

 

[Yukon Joe]

That may not be up to them.

In the end that's all that matters actually.

As a Jets fan I don't care how many goals Ilya Kovalchuk scored in a Thrashers uniform. If the Jets brought Kovalchuk back for some kind of ceremony he'd no doubt get a polite applause. But I remember being at the 2016 Heritage Classic and the HUGE response Teemu Selanne or Dale Hawerchuk received despite technically not ever having played for the Thrashers/Jets franchise.

I mentioned before - the Jets get around it by citing "Winnipeg NHL history" rather than "franchise history" - and everyone understands it and goes along with it.

 

[Tawnos]

I feel like the name of a team following a relocation is actually a kind of dumb tradition.

I mean it maybe works for the Raiders, who have had a long-time national following and identity, so it makes sense for the name to follow them from Oakland to LA to Oakland to Vegas.

But otherwise? I don't care how many years later, the LA Lakers or Utah Jazz still sound kind of weird. I think there's a reason why in the NHL team names have NOT followed the franchise after a relocation (in fact I can't think of a single time it has, though probably someone will bring up some 1930s example I'm not thinking of).

(as I think about it I can think of lots of examples of minor or junior hockey - but there it more comes down to not wanting to pay for all new jerseys)

Closest in the NHL is North Stars -> Stars. Even the early era relocations I can think of involved name changes.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Closest in the NHL is North Stars -> Stars. Even the early era relocations I can think of involved name changes.

Yeah good example - and even there it was an all-new colour scheme, plus the name "Stars" had a lot of resonance in the Lone Star State.

 

[hangman005]

Closest in the NHL is North Stars -> Stars. Even the early era relocations I can think of involved name changes.

I feel the Atlanta Flames to Calgary Flames was closer.

 

[rojac]

I feel like the name of a team following a relocation is actually a kind of dumb tradition.

I mean it maybe works for the Raiders, who have had a long-time national following and identity, so it makes sense for the name to follow them from Oakland to LA to Oakland to Vegas.

But otherwise? I don't care how many years later, the LA Lakers or Utah Jazz still sound kind of weird. I think there's a reason why in the NHL team names have NOT followed the franchise after a relocation (in fact I can't think of a single time it has, though probably someone will bring up some 1930s example I'm not thinking of).

(as I think about it I can think of lots of examples of minor or junior hockey - but there it more comes down to not wanting to pay for all new jerseys)

You honestly could not think of the Atlanta Flames becoming the Calgary Flames? But, honestly, other than that, I can't think of one.

 

[TheLegend]

In the end that's all that matters actually.

As a Jets fan I don't care how many goals Ilya Kovalchuk scored in a Thrashers uniform. If the Jets brought Kovalchuk back for some kind of ceremony he'd no doubt get a polite applause. But I remember being at the 2016 Heritage Classic and the HUGE response Teemu Selanne or Dale Hawerchuk received despite technically not ever having played for the Thrashers/Jets franchise.

I mentioned before - the Jets get around it by citing "Winnipeg NHL history" rather than "franchise history" - and everyone understands it and goes along with it.

It should always be about recognizing the players…. not which uniform they wore.

 

[GreenHornet]

Well, I know this idea has been talked about either on this thread or elsewhere on the board, but has THIS actual news story been discussed the past couple of days (and I just missed it)?

Report: Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo plans to relocate Tucson Roadrunners to Reno

Alex Meruelo, the owner of the Arizona Coyotes and Tucson Roadrunners, plans to relocate the Roadrunners to Reno, according to a report.

www.azcentral.com

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Well, I know this idea has been talked about either on this thread or elsewhere on the board, but has THIS actual news story been discussed the past couple of days (and I just missed it)?

Report: Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo plans to relocate Tucson Roadrunners to Reno

Alex Meruelo, the owner of the Arizona Coyotes and Tucson Roadrunners, plans to relocate the Roadrunners to Reno, according to a report.

www.azcentral.com

after 2027/2028

 

[TheLegend]

Well, I know this idea has been talked about either on this thread or elsewhere on the board, but has THIS actual news story been discussed the past couple of days (and I just missed it)?

Report: Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo plans to relocate Tucson Roadrunners to Reno

Alex Meruelo, the owner of the Arizona Coyotes and Tucson Roadrunners, plans to relocate the Roadrunners to Reno, according to a report.

www.azcentral.com

Hasn’t been hashed over too much. But it’s been known about.

Roadrunners extended their lease with Rio Nuevo for an extra year and that appears to coincide with Meruelo having the arena he’s building for UNR basketball.

 

[PredsHead]

Well, I know this idea has been talked about either on this thread or elsewhere on the board, but has THIS actual news story been discussed the past couple of days (and I just missed it)?

Report: Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo plans to relocate Tucson Roadrunners to Reno

Alex Meruelo, the owner of the Arizona Coyotes and Tucson Roadrunners, plans to relocate the Roadrunners to Reno, according to a report.

www.azcentral.com

Alex Meruelo plans, and BoH laughs....

I honestly don't think he even has approval for the Reno arena yet, so may be a bit premature to say he's definitely moving them there. Also not sure how the AHL would feel about the move or how his NHL affiliate feels.

 

[Yukon Joe]

You honestly could not think of the Atlanta Flames becoming the Calgary Flames? But, honestly, other than that, I can't think of one.

*palmslap*

Nope, completely missed that one.

But much like North Stars -> Stars, the Calgary Flames nickname made sense in that market. As a part of the O&G industry it's extremely common to have to flare off excess gas from production.

 

[Brodie]

I think the NHL should be like the CFL of old and have both the Stars and North Stars

 

[TheLegend]

Alex Meruelo plans, and BoH laughs....

I honestly don't think he even has approval for the Reno arena yet, so may be a bit premature to say he's definitely moving them there. Also not sure how the AHL would feel about the move or how his NHL affiliate feels.

Keep laughing…. It’s what BoH does best.

He’s building it on his own property. So outside of the usual building permits there is very little than can hold it up.

City of Reno and all the other hotel/casino properties are all for it.

This clip is a day old and updates the situation.

Josh Little and Kurt Schroeder discuss GSR arena update, the Tahoe Knight Monsters, and tonight's NBA Draft

Josh Little and Kurt Schroeder discuss GSR arena update, the Tahoe Knight Monsters, and tonight's NBA Draft

www.kolotv.com

 

[TheLegend]

I rest my case…

 

[dj4aces]

It ultimately is.

It doesn't matter what any suit or piece of paper says. Hull, Hawerchuk, and Selanne matter to Jets fans. Kovalchuk doesn't.

It really doesn't matter what anything is officially. Jets fans don't care about the Thrashers history.

The Jets have honoured players from their WHA and NHL past. It doesn't matter what the NHL corporate does. Jets fans and organization recognize the Jets' past and that's ultimately all that matters.

The Thrashers history may not matter to Jets fans, but until the league ultimately changes its position on what "franchise history" actually means, like it or not, the Jets are stuck with it. Hawerchuk's history is in limbo in a vault somewhere at the NHL's office, while Kovachuk's is attached to the Jets. That may change at some point, maybe even soon.

 

[Lions67]

Lol

The Thrashers history may not matter to Jets fans, but until the league ultimately changes its position on what "franchise history" actually means, like it or not, the Jets are stuck with it. Hawerchuk's history is in limbo in a vault somewhere at the NHL's office, while Kovachuk's is attached to the Jets. That may change at some point, maybe even

Winnipeg Jets fans could give 2 shorts* what the rest of the league and its fans think.
We know what’s what.

 

[Lions67]

I’m picking

I think the NHL should be like the CFL of old and have both the Stars and North Stars

I’m picking up what you’re laying down.
Nice play

 

[Tawnos]

I feel the Atlanta Flames to Calgary Flames was closer.

You can’t convince me the Atlanta Flames existed. I don’t care how much photographic evidence you show me.

 

[jigglysquishy]

The Thrashers history may not matter to Jets fans, but until the league ultimately changes its position on what "franchise history" actually means, like it or not, the Jets are stuck with it. Hawerchuk's history is in limbo in a vault somewhere at the NHL's office, while Kovachuk's is attached to the Jets. That may change at some point, maybe even soon.

I don't see why it actually matters.

The Jets aren't going to have a Kovalchuk night or celebrate him. They are going to have a Selanne night and celebrate him.

The official doesn't matter. Jets fans and organization will continue to wholesale reject the Thrashers history and embrace all Jets history.

 

[dj4aces]

I don't see why it actually matters.

The Jets aren't going to have a Kovalchuk night or celebrate him. They are going to have a Selanne night and celebrate him.

The official doesn't matter. Jets fans and organization will continue to wholesale reject the Thrashers history and embrace all Jets history.

That's fine, seriously. Celebrate Hawerchuk. Just don't get upset when outlets like TSN and Sportsnet refer to the franchise history and a former Thrashers player is on the list while a former Jets 1.0 player is not. It's gonna be that way until the league changes what that means.

To be clear, I want you guys to have the 1.0 history, but seeing folks desperate to divorce the franchise from its history, as is currently defined, is interesting.

 

[BMN]

I feel like the name of a team following a relocation is actually a kind of dumb tradition. I mean it maybe works for the Raiders, who have had a long-time national following and identity, so it makes sense for the name to follow them from Oakland to LA to Oakland to Vegas.

The Raiders' branding is ingenious when you think about it: being outlaws that could leave your town at a moment's notice is kind of part of what makes the brand tick.

That may not be up to them.

I mentioned before - the Jets get around it by citing "Winnipeg NHL history" rather than "franchise history" - and everyone understands it and goes along with it.

This is always where I've landed with it. I'm all for "let fans remember the history THEY associate with." Have ceremonies for whoever you want, I could care less where it falls in the "official history" pantheon. Ceremonially, so to speak, the history should be that that the fans care about.

What I'm less about is retroactively pretending something happened that didn't. The current Jets are not a reactivation of the old ones. That's not a troll or anything else other than a simple statement of fact.

I feel like when people get a team back and give it the same name, for some fans, there's a touch of "let's replace our dog that ran away with another one that ran away from their home. They're the same breed so what's the difference?: Just give this dog the same name so we don't have to tell the kids the dog ran away, he was just lost for a minute." But I'm sorry: your dog did in fact run away from home no matter how you tell the story and the dog you have now did in fact run away from someone else's home.

That Simpsons episode everyone hates is actually a lowkey brilliant commentary on this phenomenon.

It should always be about recognizing the players…. not which uniform they wore.

This is ultimately why the "what of history?" question gets posited: because there are some players that ought to be recognized but their time for recognition falls in a vacuum where their accomplishments largely reside in a city where the league *might* return but no one knows for sure.

For e.g., it's easy to look back on the tepid reception of the Dale Hawerchuk ceremony of 2007 and say "what a stupid idea." But did anyone have any confidence then that the NHL would return to Winnipeg for such an event? So you default to the franchise, not the city, that he played for because it's the path of least resistance.

You can’t convince me the Atlanta Flames existed. I don’t care how much photographic evidence you show me.

This is my attitude about the entire state of Montana. They say it's a real place but I've never been there and I'm not convinced.

 

[GKJ]

The histories are really a case-by-case basis, but there is close symmetry with whether you keep the name or not.

The Flames recognize their history in Atlanta, maybe not effusively since it has nothing to do with Calgary, but it is accepted, especially as time elapsed. The LA Rams have bounced around, including now 2 stints in LA, but their histories in Cleveland and St. Louis are correctly adhered. Similarly with the Browns as the Ravens are not acknowledged as the continuation (who in turn do not associate themselves with the Colts).

If you revive the team name, it’s because its history means enough, and you want to keep/revive that identity. That should remain with the city, the Jets previous history should be their own as they wish to acknowledge Winnipeg hockey. Dale Hawerchuk and Teemu Selanne did not play in Arizona, they should not be inherently associated with it. Additionally, the Oklahoma City Thunder, multiple times, have tried to get Gary Payton to be recognized and have his number retired, and he has repeatedly told them to go f*** themselves because he only wants to be associated with Seattle.

 

[joelef]

I just wanna know what the next southern team will Canadian fans blames high tickets on?

 

[Llama19]

The Dysfunctional Family Affair That Poisoned Arizona Coyotes

To quote:

"Financial obligations were left unaddressed as he tried to renegotiate commitments including paying the team’s travel costs and reimbursing area vendors, a team that already ranked in the bottom-third in player salary commitments sank further, and his gruff nature irked local political leaders and fellow NHL owners alike.

“He wasn’t paying bills,” says one former team employee who spoke to Front Office Sports on condition of anonymity. “He can deny it all he wants, but that stuff is true. His reputation was horrible. No one wanted to work with him. He didn’t treat employees very well and he was just a cheap ass. That was the reality of the situation.”

Alex Meruelo Jr., who graduated from USC weeks before his father purchased the team, was quickly promoted through the ranks of the Coyotes organization. Within a couple of years, he would soon have a say on business across several arms of the franchise, including player personnel decisions. According to former employees who spoke to FOS, Meruelo Jr. had a larger role in the team’s day-to-day operations than he did.

Although the sources say some staffers held their ground against Meruelo Jr., including general manager Bill Armstrong, many others found themselves overruled. Desperate employees went to the top to appeal for intervention.

“Numerous people told his dad how bad his son was, but [Meruelo Sr.] had blind faith, blind trust, or blind love for his son,” one former employee says. “He responded by saying that it was his [Meruelo Jr.’s] team and [his son] was the reason he bought the team. All Jr. cared about was lifestyle and fashion.”"

Source: frontofficesports.com/alex-meruelo-jr-arizona-coyotes-collapse/