CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations

[TheLegend]

For reference.... 2014 walk from the visitor locker room at MSG.

 

[TheLegend]

Worst locker rooms in the NHL.... voted on by players.

NHL player poll: Most dreaded road trip, best dressing room, Gritty fatigue

We cross-checked 50 pros on everything from recreational drug use to which road cities they dread the most to how they feel about that big orange fellow in Philly.

www.espn.com

 

[LPHabsFan]

To back what up? I can see where the bench and annex building are physically located on satellite pictures. I don’t know the interior pathways in the arena, but it should be somewhere around 120’ walking distance from the middle of the benches to the annex entrance assuming one or more right angles. Also don’t know where the locker rooms are located in the annex. Worst case I’d guess 160’ walk from the bench to locker rooms.

Don‘t know what the shortest/longest walk is for NHL arenas? I know the Isles old Coliseum has been cited by players in the past as the longest walk. I can also imagine arenas with both NBA and NHL teams having above average walks for one or both sports.

If you’re aware of any source with the bench to locker room walking distance for all the NHL arenas I’d love to look at it.


p.s. And yeah I’ve been in one football locker room that was a 300‘ walk from the center sideline.

My mentioning the backing it up had to do with the second part, the claim that there are arenas with a longer walk, not the distance of the annex walk.

 

[JimAnchower]

If you’re aware of any source with the bench to locker room walking distance for all the NHL arenas I’d love to look at it.


p.s. And yeah I’ve been in one football locker room that was a 300‘ walk from the center sideline.

The old Chicago Stadium required players to traverse a set of stairs in skates to go to/from the locker room. They may not have been the only one.

 

[TheLegend]

Interesting twist this morning. Phoenix looking to bring Scottsdale into the TED discussion on their side.

New Coyotes stadium could mean new flight patterns over Scottsdale

People in a Scottsdale neighborhood recently got a flyer in the mail from the City of Phoenix and Sky Harbor Airport, warning them they could soon be in a flight path.

www.abc15.com

 

[mouser]

My mentioning the backing it up had to do with the second part, the claim that there are arenas with a longer walk, not the distance of the annex walk.

For clarity, I never claimed there were arenas with a longer walk. I stated I wouldn't be surprised if there were arenas with a longer walk.

 

[TheLegend]

Response to the mailer sent out to Tempe and Scottsdale residents from Tempe mayor Corey Woods.

 

[Llama19]

^^^

The Tempe Mayors response is weak tea...

The moronic Tempe council sent out a RFP with only one bidder permitted...the Coyotes...and they knew that the site was going to be problematical and controversial...

And...they had been in discussions with Meruelo since before the RFP was sent out...much of it behind closed doors...

So...what do we have...Tempe's so called "vetting" of his financials has been a complete and utter joke...and...to suggest that this process will be or has been "transparent" is complete and utter horse hockey...

 

[TheLegend]

^^^

The Tempe Mayors response is weak tea...

The moronic Tempe council sent out a RFP with only one bidder permitted...the Coyotes...and they knew that the site was going to be problematical and controversial...

And...they had been in discussions with Meruelo since before the RFP was sent out...much of it behind closed doors...

So...what do we have...Tempe's so called "vetting" of his financials has been a complete and utter joke...and...to suggest that this process will be or has been "transparent" is complete and utter horse hockey...

Wrong sir….

It was pointed out the process was open to anyone. Cities are entitled to set the parameters for these bids. You know that so don’t get ruffled over any spilt tea because Tempe’s city government makes Glendale’s look like the Harper Valley PTA.

And BTW…. there was more than just one inquiry to the RFP as you posted yourself from your pal at Field of Schemes.

 

[gstommylee]

^^^

The Tempe Mayors response is weak tea...

The moronic Tempe council sent out a RFP with only one bidder permitted...the Coyotes...and they knew that the site was going to be problematical and controversial...

And...they had been in discussions with Meruelo since before the RFP was sent out...much of it behind closed doors...

So...what do we have...Tempe's so called "vetting" of his financials has been a complete and utter joke...and...to suggest that this process will be or has been "transparent" is complete and utter horse hockey...

Welcome to the city having to follow state laws on what and when they can disclose stuff. As long as they meet requirements of having public comments and public hearings before the city council has their vote, they are fine.

By law they city council couldn't even talk to the team and the team couldn't talk to the city council while the RFP was still going on. They had to take it out of RFP stage before the real negotiations can even start.

And again per laws anything that is in administrative session, can't be public.

 

[Llama19]

An inquiry is different than an 'bidder' that met the requirements...which Tempe and Meruelo had been 'talking' for months or years before the RFP was issued (*)...

Tempe’s “sports and entertainment district” plan has would-be investors defining “sports” wayyyy downwards

To quote:

"I am writing to remind you of the alternative we offer should the City of Tempe and/or the Phoenix Coyotes decide against relocating to the old landfill site on Rio Salado.

We have in hand a letter of commitment from a professional sports franchise which is the basic qualification criteria. And we have the professional support of Cedric Ceballos, former Suns player.

If the Coyotes decline to relocate to the site, it is very possible the City will reopen the solicitation to all originally qualified registered parties. If that happens we would like to offer our partner participation along with our sports franchise.

If you originally had a desire to respond to the RFP but did not have a sports franchise, our ABA franchise will qualify you, should the City reopen the opportunity.

Please keep this in mind.

Thank you
Chris Spidle"

Source: www.fieldofschemes.com/2021/11/18/18195/tempes-sports-and-entertainment-district-plan-has-would-be-investors-defining-sports-wayyyy-downwards/

---

(*)

To quote:

"Emails between officials at the city of Tempe and the Coyotes organization show that this potential deal has been in the works for months if not years. The Business Journal obtained the emails through a public records request. The story was first reported Thursday by the Arizona Republic."

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2021/07/22/could-the-coyotes-build-a-new-arena-in-tempe.html

 

[Dirty Old Man]

^^^

The Tempe Mayors response is weak tea...

Shocked you would have that opinion...shocked, I say!

 

[TheLegend]

Welcome to the city having to follow state laws on what they can disclose and what they can't disclose.

He knows that, Tommy.

It’s just feigned outrage.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

^^^

The Tempe Mayors response is weak tea...

The moronic Tempe council sent out a RFP with only one bidder permitted...the Coyotes...and they knew that the site was going to be problematical and controversial...

And...they had been in discussions with Meruelo since before the RFP was sent out...much of it behind closed doors...

So...what do we have...Tempe's so called "vetting" of his financials has been a complete and utter joke...and...to suggest that this process will be or has been "transparent" is complete and utter horse hockey...

Are you for real?

Like. are you actually arguing the legitimacy of the Airport's concerns to be anything but protecting Footprint Center having a competing venue and little else?

Wow

 

[TheLegend]

An inquiry is different than an 'bidder' that met the requirements...which Tempe and Meruelo had been 'talking' for months or years before the RFP was issued (*)...

Tempe’s “sports and entertainment district” plan has would-be investors defining “sports” wayyyy downwards

To quote:

"I am writing to remind you of the alternative we offer should the City of Tempe and/or the Phoenix Coyotes decide against relocating to the old landfill site on Rio Salado.

We have in hand a letter of commitment from a professional sports franchise which is the basic qualification criteria. And we have the professional support of Cedric Ceballos, former Suns player.

If the Coyotes decline to relocate to the site, it is very possible the City will reopen the solicitation to all originally qualified registered parties. If that happens we would like to offer our partner participation along with our sports franchise.

If you originally had a desire to respond to the RFP but did not have a sports franchise, our ABA franchise will qualify you, should the City reopen the opportunity.

Please keep this in mind.

Thank you
Chris Spidle"

Source: www.fieldofschemes.com/2021/11/18/18195/tempes-sports-and-entertainment-district-plan-has-would-be-investors-defining-sports-wayyyy-downwards/

---

(*)

To quote:

"Emails between officials at the city of Tempe and the Coyotes organization show that this potential deal has been in the works for months if not years. The Business Journal obtained the emails through a public records request. The story was first reported Thursday by the Arizona Republic."

Source: www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2021/07/22/could-the-coyotes-build-a-new-arena-in-tempe.html

You can word salad this to death. Doesn’t matter.

The process was open and followed all Arizona laws. End of story. Every city in Arizona operates this way. Right down to the GPLETs. The list of GPLETs that are in force across the state would surprise the hell out of a lot of people.

Simple fact of the matter is…. For some reason Phoenix has not taken the IGA issue to court. They tried hinting at it once and that didn’t work. So… Instead they went the cheesy door mailer route and tried to drag Scottsdale into it as a backup.

Not the first time they did this either. Except, so far they haven’t released a simulation video of a plane crashing into TED yet. (Like they did when the Cardinals wanted to build their stadium just north of where TED is planned.)

That means either they realize the IGA was left with a gaping loophole in it that allows TED to be built and have no case. Or, they are not all that positive they could win and the potential backlash from it could hurt them more.

 

[gstommylee]

You can word salad this to death. Doesn’t matter.

The process was open and followed all Arizona laws. End of story. Every city in Arizona operates this way. Right down to the GPLETs. The list of GPLETs that are in force across the state would surprise the hell out of a lot of people.

Simple fact of the matter is…. For some reason Phoenix has not taken the IGA issue to court. They tried hinting at it once and that didn’t work. So… Instead they went the cheesy door mailer route and tried to drag Scottsdale into it as a backup.

Not the first time they did this either. Except, so far they haven’t released a simulation video of a plane crashing into TED yet. (Like they did when the Cardinals wanted to build their stadium just north of where TED is planned.)

That means either they realize the IGA was left with a gaping loophole in it that allows TED to be built and have no case. Or, they are not all that positive they could win and the potential backlash from it could hurt them more.

I don't think they can sue yet until a government action actually happened aka the final approval vote. The case would be dismissed cause they filed it too soon.

 

[TheLegend]

I don't think they can sue yet until a government action actually happened aka the final approval vote. The case would be dismissed cause they filed it too soon.

They’ve been given notice to Tempe’s pending zoning change of the site to mixed use.

That’s possibly enough.

But you could be right here.

 

[gstommylee]

They’ve been given notice to Tempe’s pending zoning change of the site to mixed use.

That’s possibly enough.

But you could be right here.

I remember back from our Sodo arena days we had the I-91 crowd sue the city for voliation to the city law and that got dimissed cause it was filed before any action was taken The city law was also badly written and vague to the point where that lawsuit would have lost anyways

 

[TheLegend]

This is a coincidence…. or not.

From today’s Arizona Republic:

A $194 million upgrade is coming to Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport. What travelers should know

Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport will receive $194 million for a key improvement. Here's what's changing and how it benefits travelers.

www.azcentral.com

Sky Harbor is getting $194 million in federal funding to add in a 2000 foot taxiway between the north and south runways.

But….. they also have other ideas too.

Connecting the north and south airfields would help Sky Harbor operate like an airport with four runways even though it currently has three runways, said Rep. Greg Stanton, D-Ariz. Sky Harbor is the busiest airport in the world that has only three runways.

"We've been planning for the future for a fourth runway, but this will put off the need and we can use what we have now," Stanton told The Arizona Republic.

 

[gstommylee]

This is a coincidence…. or not.

From today’s Arizona Republic:

A $194 million upgrade is coming to Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport. What travelers should know

Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport will receive $194 million for a key improvement. Here's what's changing and how it benefits travelers.

www.azcentral.com

Sky Harbor is getting $194 million in federal funding to add in a 2000 foot taxiway between the north and south runways.

But….. they also have other ideas too.

Smells like potential AMMO to be used against them if the airport tried to sue over the IGA.

 

[mouser]

This is a coincidence…. or not.

From today’s Arizona Republic:

A $194 million upgrade is coming to Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport. What travelers should know

Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport will receive $194 million for a key improvement. Here's what's changing and how it benefits travelers.

www.azcentral.com

Sky Harbor is getting $194 million in federal funding to add in a 2000 foot taxiway between the north and south runways.

But….. they also have other ideas too.

Where the heck would they put a 4th runway? There’s no room on the south side. And the current airport development plan has all of the available north side property redeveloped for freight carrier and other airport support facilities.

Even without the north side plan there’s not enough room for a 4th runway there. Would have to go eminent domain on more property north of the airport. Ironically making a 4th runway nearly direct on axis with the Suns and Diamondback stadiums.

In case I’m coming off too negative, the new taxiway makes complete sense. Will make it easier for the airport to expand the terminal gates to the north and south while speeding up planes moving from a north terminal to a south runway and vice versa.

 

[William Hylander]

People in Toronto and a few other cities have been doing it for decades. What makes this any different?

A ticket in Tempe is now pretty much the most expensive in the league. The fan base is not there to justify such a price IMO.

I'm sure some will pay, but if the goal is to sell out im not sure this goal will be achieved. I guess we will see, I am skeptical.

 

[TheLegend]

Where the heck would they put a 4th runway? There’s no room on the south side. And the current airport development plan has all of the available north side property redeveloped for freight carrier and other airport support facilities.

Even without the north side plan there’s not enough room for a 4th runway there. Would have to go eminent domain on more property north of the airport. Ironically making a 4th runway nearly direct on axis with the Suns and Diamondback stadiums.

In case I’m coming off too negative, the new taxiway makes complete sense. Will make it easier for the airport to expand the terminal gates to the north and south while speeding up planes moving from a north terminal to a south runway and vice versa.

I’ve been told by someone who formally worked in Phoenix’s planning department that they planned for a third runway on the north side.

YMMV

 

[bleedblue94]

So people are bringing up locker room walks from a decade ago or from buildings that don't even exist anymore to defend this setup?

This isn't just about locker rooms, it isn't just about the 5k capacity, it isn't just about the uncertainty, it isn't just about the impacts on escrow, it isn't just about the image it projects as a major sports franchise. It's the whole package of LOL that this situation has been for decades. This is the cherry on top and the fact this is all happening without the new arena deal in place yet is looney toons bc if the approvals get pushed back more and more at some point there will have to be another year tacked onto the asu arena, let alone imagine if the deal doesn't happen and the franchise has to be moved after spending a season in the flux.

I am very hopeful this ends with a good ending for coyotes fans and the NHL bc if this new arena project doesn't come to fruition after this latest sideshow it will really sting for everyone that has been a part of this.

 

[TheLegend]

A ticket in Tempe is now pretty much the most expensive in the league. The fan base is not there to justify such a price IMO.

I'm sure some will pay, but if the goal is to sell out im not sure this goal will be achieved. I guess we will see, I am skeptical.

They’ve already reported the income from full and partial STH ticket sales is 50% higher than they had in Glendale.

About 90% of opening night is currently sold last I checked TicketMaster a week or so ago. So if your skeptical about the base here paying those prices you shouldn’t be. But it’s quite understandable.

At this point I’m more skeptical about the other revenues (ads, corporate partners) than anything.