KevFu
Registered User
Las Vegas is 5.5 hours from Phoenix. (Twice as far away is Quebec City is from Montreal)
If you don't want the Coyotes to exist, just say that and don't waste your time typing anything else, because it's absurd.
CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations
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Las Vegas is 5.5 hours from Phoenix. (Twice as far away is Quebec City is from Montreal)
If you don't want the Coyotes to exist, just say that and don't waste your time typing anything else, because it's absurd.
BKIslandersFan
F*** off
TheGreenTBer
JAMES DOES IT NEED A WASHER YES OR NO
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Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Uh what? No room in the market? What market? They are two entirely different metro areas hundreds of miles apart. You could drive from Pittsburgh past Columbus to Detroit in the same amount of time you could go from Phoenix to Las Vegas, and the two have fairly comparable populations as well.
Dallas to Houston is closer than Phoenix to Las Vegas, so by your extremely flawed logic the Texas market only has enough room for one team.
If you're going to use incorrect and flawed logic, at least correctly apply it yourself...
nhlfan79
Registered User
Fair points, but I'll simply add that those mid-afternoon non-sellouts were in the mid-1990s, which is literally a full generation ago. Yet people still bring it up like it has any relevance to today.
My desired outcome is its time for fans of these teams to put or shut up. Sorry I can understand fans not filling the building when the team is bad. I wouldn't spend on a losing team either. The difference is I would still tune in to watch them play. For the most part the TV numbers aren't there.
I work for one of the top 10 lagest banks in the US, we use D&B markey analysis on commercial loan approvals pretty regularly
you're hardcore though - a US market that is relatively young without success wont have hardcores like you. Especially if there is competition.
It's not like winterpeg or deadmonton where there only the NHL and minor league sports
Dirty Old Man
Yotah Hockey Club
Oh, he's made that quite clear the last 10-12 years or whatever (and is somehow still here) ...the real question is: if you're Canadian and you spell "humoring" like that, does it warrant a spelling flame?
I do get where you're coming from. I also believe that this the best the NHL is going to get. You may get a few more eye balls if there struggling markets take off but IMO I can't see a day they get NBA numbers. There is just not enough interest in the US
I would like to interject here. And NO, I am not hoping the team leaves.
Competition.
NFL, a handful of games during the start of NHL season.
MLB, this does not affect Arizona hockey market.
NBA, direct competition.
College sports, it varies.
5.5 million people (or so), can absolutely support 9 NFL games.
5.5 million people (or so), can absolutely support 80 MLB games
5.5 million people (or so), can absolutely support 41 NBA games.
5.5 million people (or so) can absolutely support 41 NHL games.
Trouble is, one of the four is the issue.
People drive over the hour, if not longer, from all over North America for sports. Glendale was not exclusive.
41 games in Winnipeg and Edmonton. Games still last 3 hours.
There are AHL, WHL, CFL, Baseball, college, etc. In both cities you have mentioned.
And both cities do just fine, for all sports, yes, even during the weekdays, and horrible winter weather.
There is not more or less to do in any city of you CHOOSE to attend.
Again, I'm not for the team to relocate, but the comparison to ANY city for options to support/attend a sport is rediculios.
Only one city for ALL of the big 4 wins a championship. Performance plays in, but not forever.
For 28 years, something isn't adding up.
I mean no disrespect. But compitition is not a good reason.
The competition you mentioned in edm and Winnipeg gets how much support at what price point? Just because there may not be a lot of supply in a league (NFL) or the seasons don't overlap (MLB) does not mean that people don't budget for tickets. Also it does in fact add up if you look at the coyotes on ice performance for 28 years lol. It's been awful. Winnipeg has had more success since they got a team back and to be honest they are starting to feel the markets willingness to support a non-winner now that the new shine has worn off. You can google it and there are articles about the softness of the Winnipeg market but I find it kind of ironic that the same people who were dancing in the streets about the NHL coming back to Winnipeg and rooting for a return to Quebec City are ignoring the signs that some of these smaller markets will have issues with attendance just like they did in the 80s and 90s. They were in the WHA for a reason.
The price point? A simple google search can find that out.
Point being people are spending money on tickets. Edmonton Elks, Winnipeg Goldeyes, Calgary Hitmen, who ever, people who ate interested in attending, are.
This also includes camping, boating, cabins, the Arts etc. And with the price if gas, ALL OVER, people are finding a way to do it.
It doesn't matter who is rooting for a team to relocate.
Edmonton isn't leaving. Winnipeg isn't leaving.
Arizona MAY leave. And it isn't because of competition.
Every city has that.
A game in one city costs a certain "price point" . if I am correct Arizona is substantially less than any other NHL market.
With ASU coming into play, those tickets are significantly higher. Granted a much smaller venue, but the fans who paid X amount for games previous, may not be able to pay the new X amount.
My opinion again, is competition is a light argument.
Enjoy your day!
This POV is bonkers.
They have better things to do than play games with the Coyotes.
If they approved negotiations, it's because they're interested in making a deal.
Coyotes' sportsbook generates $3462 in revenue for month of March. Holds .01% of Arizona sports betting market.
Ouch! Yeah.... I dont think that this is what the team expected to make in gambling revenue...
Ouch! Yeah.... I dont think that this is what the team expected to make in gambling revenue...
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TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Complete report here.....
https://gaming.az.gov/sites/default/files/EW%20Revenue%20Report%20for%20Website%20-%20Mar%202022.pdf
It's actually improving. Given his late start (four months after it became legal) and doing it from scratch it isn't surprising.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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That can't be the correct number, can it? that's nothing really.
Maybe the arena deal with all the related building and such is where Meurello expects to make his money?
awfulwaffle
Registered User
Combination of both things I imagine. Again, this was started from scratch and AFTER all the other teams had already had agreements and were up and running. When he has his own arena up and running, you can bet that the sportsbook will be up and running 100%, and he'll be able to provide more "incentives" to use sahara bets. Imagine the hotel he'll own there, can give $10 free bets for staying in the hotel room or something stupid. As it is now, he doesn't have a lot of leverage to get people to use Sahara bets. The deals when betting opened for everyone else, was just $x dollars free to bet with, etc. My buddy would bounce around between all the different ones to abuse the free money. I'd imagine once this is all in place and open, he'll have better leverage to provide more incentives and bring more bets in.
Yukon Joe
Registered User
They're quoting revenue - which is amount bet less amount paid out.
The total amount bet was $72,891, which doesn't sound as bad.
Of course the total amount bet in the whole state that month was $690 million.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Those who think the sports betting angle is a real dunk on the Coyotes then all it’s telling me is they’re running out of material.
KevFu
Registered User
Why does that matter?
The Marvel Cinematic Universe (Disney) is absolutely CRUSHING the DC Cinematic Universe (Warner Bros/Discovery) in terms of viewers and dollars at the box office.
That doesn't mean Warner pulls out of the game and stops trying to grow the DCCU, does it.
You're worried about CATCHING a league in the US that started with a 9-3 advantage in US teams, had a 26-12 US market advantage as late as 1990 and still has a 29-22 advantage today.
Who cares if it never happens! The NHL is bringing in billions in revenue. You think Pepsi really expects that after a century of being second to Coke, they're ever going to pass them? No. they just focus on growing THEIR BUSINESS.
Which is what the NHL has been trying to do. And you can't grow by ignoring large untapped markets.
KevFu
Registered User
So when you look at all five sports leagues, who'd be left?
The reason I sound like a jerk in these discussions is because there's no difference between the Coyotes and what's happening in Tampa with the Rays; there's no difference between what's happening with the Oakland As and what happened to the New York Islanders.
And if we used the Coyotes as a bench mark of "put up or shut-up time" then the NBA, NHL and MLB would be 16-18 teams each.
Your view isn't realistic to how the business of sports actually works.
Major League Baseball sold ZERO regular season tickets in 2020 because of the pandemic, and not only did no one go out of business, franchise values are UP 27%. So why exactly should anyone "put up or shut-up" ?
Fans will go to games when teams give them a reason to. And owners will decide HOW OFTEN they want to give the fans a reason to, because they sure aren't going bankrupt if they don't.
I do see your point about getting into untapped markets and growing the game. From my view and I know it will upset many, the US has never cared for hockey and they never will. My issue isn't totally the markets they are trying to go into. My other issue is changing so much of the game to appeal to people who have very little interest in the game to begin with.
I know this isn't the thread for this but it does play a part IMO coming out of the first lockout they had it right minus the shootout part. They called everything and the speed and skill were in display nightly. Then they decided it wasn't working cause too many teams were out of contention by December. Let's go back to game management to try to keep games close. IMO they are trying too hard to get the casual US fan interested when they never have.
I said I do understand fans not filling the building when teams are bad. If you actually liked hockey you would tune in at times when they are bad. A lot of these markets they don't even do that.
I think its different. The sports book betting was :supposed" to be a huge step. And it clearly is not.Those who think the sports betting angle is a real dunk on the Coyotes then all it’s telling me is they’re running out of material.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
It’s one of many steps.
I used to think otherwise, but not any more given how he didn’t jump into it immediately and instead went with IGT as a partner.
The biggest thing for him right now is TED. And I mean the entire district, not just the arena.
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