CXL - UPDATE 12/9 - Coyotes settle bills after unpaid taxes come to light

[Slashers98]

Due to renovations to the Footprint Center in 2020, the WNBA's Mercury were due to play at the AVMC during the 2020 season. Obviously, they never did. They originally announced this on July 24, 2019 for a season that was due to begin May 15, 2020. So 10 months before, and right now we're a little less than 10 months from the start of 2022-23.

The Mercury were going to make upgrades to the scoreboard, lighting, sound system, and some seats. Who knows how much of that they completed. If all that was completed, and everything shutdown two months before the season was supposed to start so probably not, the Coyotes would still need to add and install an ice machine and probably make other upgrades (press box, technology/WiFi, locker rooms, camera angles, tv booths, benches) just bring it up to a minimum NHL standard. And they'd also want to upgrade the fan experience, whether that's seats, concourses, advertising, etc. That's a lot to do.

https://www.abc15.com/news/arizona-...e-records-show-year-long-fire-code-violations

The capacity for hockey is only 13,000 seats and it doesn't seem like a very safe place to play.

Excerpt from the article:
ABC15 discovered some of the building's fire safety features are outdated, not up to code, or in some places need complete replacing.
An inspection report obtained by ABC15 shows the last complete inspection of the building happened in March 2020. The Arizona Office of the State Fire Marshal (OSFM) noted 32 code violations inside the Coliseum. To date, 25 violations have been addressed and repaired. Still, OSFM notes seven of the original 32 violations remain, more than a year after first flagging them. Some, important safety systems that would be used in case of an emergency: the Coliseum's fire alarm system and sprinkler systems.

 

[aqib]

AVMC is obviously a possible venue but it would cost a lot of money to get it to the bare minimum standards required for the NHL. At best it is lipstick on a pig.

Chase Field could certainly be used during the regular season and attract big crowds for visiting teams that travel well which would provide extra revenue to help upgrade the old arena.

The new ASU Arena will open in 2022 but it is too small (5,500 seats) to even consider.

The Suns and the City of Glendale don't want a third arena in the market so you can rule them out.

On top of this we have no timeline on when the Tempe project gets greenlighted.

This sounds silly but maybe do preseason at the ASU arena, some regular season games in Tucson, and some at Chase Field.

 

[Mightygoose]

Rencontre avec Québec en janvier: Gary Bettman se dit heureux et en mode écoute

Translated from French

Bettman said he was far from surprised that the case of the hypothetical return of the Nordics continually bounces in the news in Quebec.
“I know that the fans in Quebec are passionate, there is no doubt. If we look back in time, the Nordiques left because there was no hope of a new arena and because no one wanted to own a team in Quebec.

“Maybe things have changed. I'm going to listen and we'll see what that means in the overall picture. ”

Well of course things have changed - it is called the Centre Videotron.

Bettman announced that meeting for a reason - we just don't know why....................................................yet

Not sure if there's more that wasn't typed but interesting he didn't mention small market or low Canadian dollar.

The other 2 points have answers

 

[Slashers98]

This sounds silly but maybe do preseason at the ASU arena, some regular season games in Tucson, and some at Chase Field.

It's definitely silly!

 

[garbageteam]

I do think something can be parsed from Bettman’s statement. If he’s willing to be this antagonistic to Glendale, he’s just told everyone that the League is 100% done trying to keep Glendale viable. This realistically leaves two paths: Tempe is a go and they’re spending a bit at the AVMC, or it’s not and they’re on the way in with moving vans.

He publicly cut off the cord to Glendale years ago wasn't it? Didn't he outright say a couple of seasons back the Coyotes have no viable future in Glendale itself?

 

[Mightygoose]

This sounds silly but maybe do preseason at the ASU arena, some regular season games in Tucson, and some at Chase Field.

I don't think the PA would be too happy about that. Not sure if they get a say in a matter like this.

This of course will depend if Tempe moves forward and they can't wait until the end of the season

 

[gstommylee]

Rencontre avec Québec en janvier: Gary Bettman se dit heureux et en mode écoute

Translated from French

Bettman said he was far from surprised that the case of the hypothetical return of the Nordics continually bounces in the news in Quebec.
“I know that the fans in Quebec are passionate, there is no doubt. If we look back in time, the Nordiques left because there was no hope of a new arena and because no one wanted to own a team in Quebec.

“Maybe things have changed. I'm going to listen and we'll see what that means in the overall picture. ”

Well of course things have changed - it is called the Centre Videotron.

Bettman announced that meeting for a reason - we just don't know why....................................................yet

That doesn't mean quebec is getting a team yet alone a relocated team. Bettman meet with Settle leaders with a potential seattle group before the 2015 expansion process and look at what came out of that meeting at the time.

 

[Mightygoose]

That doesn't mean quebec is getting a team yet alone a relocated team. Bettman meet with Settle leaders with a potential seattle group before the 2015 expansion process and look at what came out of that meeting at the time.

Maybe not but they're going to need to think about a fall back plan soon.

It's possible they meet with Houston people too but wonder how strong is the political support going to be. They already have an arena and Fertitta is the way through that door.

Either way, they can't let this drag too far to the end of the season.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

That doesn't mean quebec is getting a team yet alone a relocated team. Bettman meet with Settle leaders with a potential seattle group before the 2015 expansion process and look at what came out of that meeting at the time.

Yes.. The NHL did. It is the Seattle Kraken. As was the 2010 meeting in Atlanta. It is Winnipeg Jets. As did the Minnesota putchase group. It is the Pho/AZ Coyotes, as did the North Stars, Dallas stars, as did Quebec Nordiques, Colorado Avalnche.
Coin toss right now... And some have coin. Some don't.

 

[gstommylee]

Yes.. The NHL did. It is the Seattle Kraken. As was the 2010 meeting in Atlanta. It is Winnipeg Jets. As did the Minnesota putchase group. It is the Pho/AZ Coyotes, as did the North Stars, Dallas stars, as did Quebec Nordiques, Colorado Avalnche.
Coin toss right now... And some have coin. Some don't.

I was talking abut pre 2015 expansion process which vegas got their team not the 2018 expansion process which Seattle Kraken became a team. Btw Kraken's ownership group involves not a single person that was supposedly interest in a team back prior to the 2015 expansion process.

My point just cause there's a meeting with Quebec folks doesn't mean the NHL/BOG are gonna at all vote to let mess up the alignment just so Quebec gets a team again...

This meeting probably just a meeting nothing more nothing less that will lead to anything.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

I was talking abut pre 2015 expansion process which vegas got their team not the 2018 expansion process which Seattle Kraken became a team. Btw Kraken's ownership group involves not a single person that was supposedly interest in a team back prior to the 2015 expansion process.

My point just cause there's a meeting with Quebec folks doesn't mean the NHL/BOG are gonna at all vote to let mess up the alignment just so Quebec gets a team again...

This meeting probably just a meeting nothing more nothing less that will lead to anything.

Fair enough. It is just a meeting. That was reported on, and denied, and happening.
I know lots of people who travel for meetings, accross boarders, during holiday season, while their books are all good.. Just to go!
Maybe it is a sking trip.. Slippery... Avalanches et all.

 

[gstommylee]

Fair enough. It is just a meeting. That was reported on, and denied, and happening.
I know lots of people who travel for meetings, accross boarders, during holiday season, while their books are all good.. Just to go!
Maybe it is a sking trip.. Slippery... Avalanches et all.

The owners get to decide who owns and where the team plays at. Its the NHL's job to have the league grow and to increase what the owners make. Quebec doesn't exactly make the owners more money enough to be worth messing up the alignment... A quebec team won't get the current NHL canada tv network to give them more money when it goes up for renewal. That network may not want to give them at as much as they are giving them now for future tv rights.

Its all about future growth of the league and keeping the franchise in the US is better for the league long term then to mess the alignment up (which isn't broken) just so quebec gets a team.

 

[Llama19]

He publicly cut off the cord to Glendale years ago wasn't it? Didn't he outright say a couple of seasons back the Coyotes have no viable future in Glendale itself?

Correct...

The earliest quote from Bettman...March 07, 2017...was when the failed attempt to get the Arizona Legislature to pass an 'arena' bill...

"Bettman says he wants to make it “abundantly clear” that the team can’t make money at Glendale’s Gila River Arena:

“The Coyotes current location is not economically capable of supporting a successful NHL franchise. For the past 15 years a succession of ownership groups have have tried everything imaginable to make the Glendale location financial sustainable. Our combined efforts have all yielded the same result - a consistent economic loss.”

It goes on to say in boldface letters:

“The simple truth: The Arizona Coyotes must have a new arena location to succeed. The Coyotes cannot and will not remain in Glendale.”"

Source (waybackmachine): web.archive.org/web/20170310191916/http://www.12news.com:80/sports/nhl/coyotes/nhl-commissioner-coyotes-cant-and-wont-play-in-glendale/420599553

 

[TheLegend]

I will take the response.
It is a poor choice of words.

Informing people (fans), is not an agenda. Either side of the spectrum.
Getting caught in the act, is not an agenda.

It most certainly is not a "dump" to react to.

The "dump" is accross not-so-much broad shoulders.
And, no. I wouldn't be surprised by how much this goes on.
There is no spin on this.

And, to add.. A journalist, good or bad, is not the person who should be finding out the details. The people in charge of the issue should be.

The prior did. Says alot.

Don’t know if you saw me post this a while back but several months prior to Tempe issuing their RFP a city councilman from Glendale had already begun trying to meddle in the process by sending a copy of Katie Strang’s original article of the Coyotes “toxic environment” to the two people in Tempe who were developing the RFP. It’s documented in an article in Phoenix Business Journal after a writer found out about the negotiations and filed a public records request with Tempe. So this isn’t spin. It’s been going on for some time and we’re only seeing a very small portion of what’s happened.

As to my “spin” about things like this happening all the time? I can speak from personal experience. I currently have an outstanding IRS bill that is going on 10 years now. Not going give further details about it other than I am trying to get it paid off and that the IRS isn’t that great about sending me statements on a monthly basis as they should be. Sometimes the gap has been as much as five months.

So just because you see one summary statement from the Arizona Department of Revenue it doesn’t mean regular ones each month were sent to the Coyotes. No matter what some spokesperson tells you. Many of the state agencies here in AZ are grossly understaffed and underfunded. And the pandemic only made it worse.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

The owners get to decide who owns and where the team plays at. Its the NHL's job to have the league grow and to increase what the owners make. Quebec doesn't exactly make the owners more money enough to be worth messing up the alignment... A quebec team won't get the current NHL canada tv network to give them more money when it goes up for renewal. That network may not want to give them at as much as they are giving them now for future tv rights.

Its all about future growth of the league and keeping the franchise in the US is better for the league long term then to mess the alignment up (which isn't broken) just so quebec gets a team.

It's not my call. Unfortunately.
So is it growth, or alignment?
Heart in good spot. Logic.. Meh.

 

[TheLegend]

He publicly cut off the cord to Glendale years ago wasn't it? Didn't he outright say a couple of seasons back the Coyotes have no viable future in Glendale itself?

That was immediately after Glendale terminated the original lease with IceArizona (née Anthony LeBlanc and Co.)

 

[Headshot77]

Maybe not but they're going to need to think about a fall back plan soon.

It's possible they meet with Houston people too but wonder how strong is the political support going to be. They already have an arena and Fertitta is the way through that door.

Either way, they can't let this drag too far to the end of the season.

The plan is probably to do exactly that. Drag this on until the end of the season. Keep Quebec in the NHLs back pocket, and if the RFP fails and the Coyotes have no temporary arena, off they go. We won't know the result of the RFP process until like, a month before the season ends if I were to guess. It would be kind of them to at least tell Coyotes fans "hey, it didn't work, these last few games are it for NHL hockey in Arizona". At least then fans get to go one last time.

 

[gstommylee]

It's not my call. Unfortunately.
So is it growth, or alignment?
Heart in good spot. Logic.. Meh.

Its both. If the tempe plan fails and the team relocates, Houston will be the best option to relocate team too. The alignment doesn't change and it opens up the league and that franchise with more potential growth vs having to mess up the alignment to keep it 8-8-8-8 with 17 eastern time zone teams and limited revenue growth just so quebec gets a team again. 32 BOG members only care about increasing their own pocketbook then to change stuff just so a smaller market gets their team again. It made no sense to give quebec team #32 back during the 2015 process and instead wait till Seattle gets things figured out which they did.

Alignment matters for travel, teams and tv ratings. Why would people have any interest in watching last years alignment permanently, or watch Detroit or Columbus having to play in the western conference. Why does it make sense for travel... It matters.

 

[Pandemonia]

My point just cause there's a meeting with Quebec folks doesn't mean the NHL/BOG are gonna at all vote to let mess up the alignment just so Quebec gets a team again...

This meeting probably just a meeting nothing more nothing less that will lead to anything.

Still living in that big river in Egypt, I see.....

 

[gstommylee]

Still living in that big river in Egypt, I see.....

Bettman himself can't give a market a franchise or take a franchise from a current market/city. The owners can... Why do the owners want to mess up the alignment why do the owners want to force one of detroit/columbus back to the western conference when either of the owners can suddenly vote against them later..

 

[Slashers98]

Bettman himself can't give a market franchise or take a franchise from a current market/city. The owners can... Why do the owners want to mess up the alignment why do the owners want to force one of detroit/columbus back to the western conference when either of the owners can suddenly vote against them later..

We know you hate Quebec City, get over it.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Don’t know if you saw me post this a while back but several months prior to Tempe issuing their RFP a city councilman from Glendale had already begun trying to meddle in the process by sending a copy of Katie Strang’s original article of the Coyotes “toxic environment” to the two people in Tempe who were developing the RFP. It’s documented in an article in Phoenix Business Journal after a writer found out about the negotiations and filed a public records request with Tempe. So this isn’t spin. It’s been going on for some time and we’re only seeing a very small portion of what’s happened.

As to my “spin” about things like this happening all the time? I can speak from personal experience. I currently have an outstanding IRS bill that is going on 10 years now. Not going give further details about it other than I am trying to get it paid off and that the IRS isn’t that great about sending me statements on a monthly basis as they should be. Sometimes the gap has been as much as five months.

So just because you see one summary statement from the Arizona Department of Revenue it doesn’t mean regular ones each month were sent to the Coyotes. No matter what some spokesperson tells you. Many of the state agencies here in AZ are grossly understaffed and underfunded. And the pandemic only made it worse.

Please understand,
I'm not here to flame stuff.
While your credentials in this online forum are "legend", and i COMPLETELY understand how our own personal lives may be,
Being privy to information does not excususe responsibility. This is not a law case.
It will be a learning law case hopefully.

Ive been on this (Az/Ice etc).

Every new twist, each one. Is not going up.
The market is NOT bad. The fans are NOT bad. The situation is grave.
Both NHL, past owners have hurt it all.. Fan support, markeketing.. I get it. The tail, in my opinion.. Is cropped.

All due respect legend



Ive been on for along time. I aint leaving.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Its both. If the tempe plan fails and the team relocates, Houston will be the best option to relocate team too. The alignment doesn't change and it opens up the league and that franchise with more potential growth vs having to mess up the alignment to keep it 8-8-8-8 with 17 eastern time zone teams and limited revenue growth just so quebec gets a team again. 32 BOG members only care about increasing their own pocketbook then to change stuff just so a smaller market gets their team again. It made no sense to give quebec team #32 back during the 2015 process and instead wait till Seattle gets things figured out which they did.

Alignment matters for travel, teams and tv ratings. Why would people have any interest in watching last years alignment permanently, or watch Detroit or Columbus having to play in the western conference. Why does it make sense for travel... It matters.

I don't know... Why did Jets fans waych for two years in the east? Why did wimgs fans watch in the west? Why do blue jackets mattet in the veiwing area?... How are coyotes tv numbers? Sharks?... Potential is a guess. Actual is... Well... Actual

 

[TheLegend]

Please understand,
I'm not here to flame stuff.
While your credentials in this online forum are "legend", and i COMPLETELY understand how our own personal lives may be,
Being privy to information does not excususe responsibility. This is not a law case.
It will be a learning law case hopefully.

Ive been on this (Az/Ice etc).

Every new twist, each one. Is not going up.
The market is NOT bad. The fans are NOT bad. The situation is grave.
Both NHL, past owners have hurt it all.. Fan support, markeketing.. I get it. The tail, in my opinion.. Is cropped.

All due respect legend



Ive been on for along time. I aint leaving.

Not saying anything other than I’m looking at this from a lot of different angles.

Some business operates on the premise that you hold out as long as you can before paying things off. What’s been written about the Meruelo group to date paints the picture of that’s how he operates.

It’s a double edge sword though and can bite you in the ass if you poke the wrong entity long enough and that’s what we’re seeing now.

I also certainly don’t want you going anywhere.

 

[Pandemonia]

Bettman himself can't give a market a franchise or take a franchise from a current market/city. The owners can... Why do the owners want to mess up the alignment why do the owners want to force one of detroit/columbus back to the western conference when either of the owners can suddenly vote against them later..

Why? Probably because the owners aren't as obsessively tied to the current alignment as you seem to be.

Last year, the NHL played a totally different alignment and the world didn't come to an end. When they moved Atlanta to Winnipeg and the Jets continued to play in the southeast division, the world didn't come to an end. When they moved Arizona into the central division this year from the pacific, the world didn't come to an end.

If the owners, by majority vote, move either Detroit or Columbus to another conference, there are plenty of ways that the affected team can be made whole. You might want to, might need to, cling to the idea that current alignments are inviolable and can never be changed, but if you look at the league's history, you'll find that alignments have been continually changing over the years.