CXL - UPDATE 12/9 - Coyotes settle bills after unpaid taxes come to light

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Jets4Life

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Interesting, in my head I always thought some of those cities were bigger then per say, Calgary/Edmonton/Winnipeg, but not really. (Unless you add in surrounding area of course)

The metro area is the only thing that matters. Phoenix metro is roughly the size of Montreal.

If we were to go on city populations, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton would be larger than Vancouver. Technically all 3 cities would be larger than Minneapolis and St Paul combined, Boston, Detroit, San Francisco, Seattle, Vegas, Denver, etc. Calgary would be the 10th largest city in the United States, if one were going by city population only.
 

TheLegend

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Utah is NOT Bill Foley's turf. Salt Lake City in a different states over 400 miles away. I've heard some ridiculous things on the forum in my day, but this one is priceless.

However, it won't matter since the NHL has no intention of moving the Coyotes to Salt Lake.

Wanna bet??

In addition to Nevada, the Golden Knights’ authorized distribution territory covers the entire states of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming and Utah and select areas of Arizona and California.

ROOT SPORTS TO BECOME OFFICIAL TELEVISION HOME OF THE VEGAS GOLDEN KNIGHTS
 

93LEAFS

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The metro area is the only thing that matters. Phoenix metro is roughly the size of Montreal.

If we were to go on city populations, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton would be larger than Vancouver. Technically all 3 cities would be larger than Minneapolis and St Paul combined, Boston, Detroit, San Francisco, Seattle, Vegas, Denver, etc. Calgary would be the 10th largest city in the United States, if one were going by city population only.
Calgary is a weird city in the sense they have pretty much-annexed everything that has a sizable population around it, whereas Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver all have very sizable cities bordering them. Although, Canada and the United States have different ways of measuring their cities. For example, we don't really have a comparable to CSA's and tend to not have as expansive MSA's when you compare something like Toronto/GTA/Golden Horseshoe to a region like Chicago/Chicagoland. But as for metro areas, pretty much every Canadian city outside Montreal, Toronto and to a lesser extent Vancouver/Lower Mainland is on the small side for having a professional sports team.
 

TheLegend

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That's just the area they currently have carved out. They wouldn't have to pay them an indemnification fee. The cities are over 400 miles apart. When Vegas was created they took TV territory from other teams.

Bill Foley paid $500 million for that territory. I wouldn't think he'd give up a major population center without something coming back.
 

93LEAFS

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Bill Foley paid $500 million for that territory. I wouldn't think he'd give up a major population center without something coming back.
You don't get to buy that much television territory. NHL bylaws don't give him protection over a city 400 miles away. It's not like the Leafs or Montreal had any rights over Ottawa (hence why Ottawa got exclusive TV rights until about Belleville) which are much closer to them than SLC is to Las Vegas. Montreal is closer to QC, and they are in Montreal's tv area too. The same logic likely applies to Houston/Dallas. Bill Foley really has no power to block it outside of one vote on the BOG. Plus, theoretically, if Arizona moved, he could just try to claim most of Arizona as now part of his TV territory. You only get veto/indemnification money if a team moves within 50 miles of you, hence why Hamilton has so many hurdles.
 
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Fenway

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AT&T Sportsnet is not carried in Phoenix - that is Bally Sports. AT&T SportsNet IS carried in the Salt Lake Market.

Bally Arizona could elect to bring in the Kings, Ducks or Stars if the Coyotes left.

The VGK RSN footprint has always been the achilles heel - when it comes to eyeballs it is tiny.
 
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Fenway

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Calgary is a weird city in the sense they have pretty much-annexed everything that has a sizable population around it, whereas Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver all have very sizable cities bordering them. Although, Canada and the United States have different ways of measuring their cities. For example, we don't really have a comparable to CSA's and tend to not have as expansive MSA's when you compare something like Toronto/GTA/Golden Horseshoe to a region like Chicago/Chicagoland. But as for metro areas, pretty much every Canadian city outside Montreal, Toronto and to a lesser extent Vancouver/Lower Mainland is on the small side for having a professional sports team.

Ottawa is the prime example. A very small footprint was created in an area that was dominated by Toronto and Montreal.
 

Fenway

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Technically the NHL will not get involved unless the Coyotes miss paying payroll to the players.

The BoG meets for the next 2 days and you can be certain Arizona will be discussed. The Yotes have hinted Chase Field as a temporary home but how realistic is that if they make the playoffs?

I feel horrible for Arizona fans but I think we are finally at the 'This Is It" moment.

 
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93LEAFS

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AT&T Sportsnet is not carried in Phoenix - that is Bally Sports. AT&T SportsNet IS carried in the Salt Lake Market.

Bally Arizona could elect to bring in the Kings, Ducks or Stars if the Coyotes left.

The VGK RSN footprint has always been the achilles heel - when it comes to eyeballs it is tiny.
I always forget about the complex regional cable arrangements/disputes in the United States since Canada is essentially an oligopoly of two companies with a couple of local regional players. And, the Canadian rights are all held by essentially two companies with a national presence. I just meant that I can't see Vegas having any real dispute with a team invading their TV territory when it comes to SLC considering we are talking two cities 400 miles apart. I know the West is more sparsely populated outside of the coast, but if looked up every NHL team within 400 miles of Toronto, you'd get at least 5 or so teams (Detroit, Montreal, Buffalo, Ottawa, Pittsburgh) with Columbus and most of the major Northeast Metroplex outside of Boston Columbus within 500 or so miles.
 

Radical Realignment

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Morgan tweets that the Coyotes put out a statement blaming "unfortunate human error", and promising to have all outstanding debts and bills paid by the morning.

I'm guessing Bettman had a chat with Meruelo.
I'm getting the feeling that the BoG might start thinking that the "unfortunate human error" goes by the name of Meruelo (if they don't already).
 

Fenway

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I always forget about the complex regional cable arrangements/disputes in the United States since Canada is essentially an oligopoly of two companies with a couple of local regional players. And, the Canadian rights are all held by essentially two companies with a national presence. I just meant that I can't see Vegas having any real dispute with a team invading their TV territory when it comes to SLC considering we are talking two cities 400 miles apart. I know the West is more sparsely populated outside of the coast, but if looked up every NHL team within 400 miles of Toronto, you'd get at least 5 or so teams (Detroit, Montreal, Buffalo, Ottawa, Pittsburgh) with Columbus and most of the major Northeast Metroplex outside of Boston Columbus within 500 or so miles.

The Blues have an insane footprint stretching from Indianapolis to Omaha

Back in the 80's the Bruins made a truce with the Whalers allowing Hartford games into the Boston market so in return NESN could beam into Connecticut.
 
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93LEAFS

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The Blues have an insane footprint stretching from Indianapolis to Omaha

Back in the 80's the Bruins made a truce with the Whalers allowing Hartford games into the Boston market so in return NESN could beam into Connecticut.
Oh, I believe Denver teams tend to have an insane one (I believe Broncos had the largest NFL local TV area for years) given there are so few major sports teams in that region, so I can see St. Louis going far west given they are. I was purely talking about how I don't think Foley has any sort of claim to damages for a team moving to SLC.

I believe Ottawa/Montreal made a similar truce for Quebec because MTL wanted to keep Gatineau, and knew they were unlikely to lose footing in Quebec, whereas Leafs told them to get bent about sharing Ontario so they have until like Belleville I believe, whereas Leafs have pretty much all the rest of Ontario until like Thunder Bay.
 

Voight

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Morgan tweets that the Coyotes put out a statement blaming "unfortunate human error", and promising to have all outstanding debts and bills paid by the morning.

I'm guessing Bettman had a chat with Meruelo.

Thats funny, cause last year they couldn't pay vendors, paid their players per diems late, payed their bonuses late etc.... was the human error excuse used then as well? :facepalm:

If the league does have to take over the team again, how would this not be the end of the Tempe proposal?

They wouldn't have enough time to find a new owner who can complete the deal

Even, then are they going to find one? Barroway got out as fast as he could and Muerelo doesn't seem to want to even pay the bills around there. How many billionaires are going to want to buy an asset thats nearly guaranteed to lose money every year?
 

Ernie

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Gotta say, Craig Morgan would have a lot more credibility as an actual journalist and not just Coyotes PR if he broke these stories himself once in a while, instead of having Katie Strang do it from Grand Rapids, Michigan.

That's a huge counterpoint to fans who say "we know the situation because we live here."

Then why doesn't Craig Morgan?
 

cheswick

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Mar 17, 2010
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The human error excuse is laughable and a poor attempt to save face. Didn’t Strang raise the issue of outstanding monies owed months ago? It’s not like this is the first they’re hearing about it.
 
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cheswick

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Been saying this for years. Bettman wont let his pet project die.


I don’t really buy that. The league was fully prepared to move the team to Winnipeg at one point. The bigger issue Bettman /NHL had was with Balsille and the way he went about trying to get a team imo. Not so much saving the Phoenix market. The NHL ownership of the club was direct result of the Balsille shananigans. Since then they’ve had an owner that has been willing to bleed money. I don’t believe the NHL would keep the team there if the owner came to them and said I’m out.
 

Major4Boarding

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Jan 30, 2009
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Technically the NHL will not get involved unless the Coyotes miss paying payroll to the players.



Somehow I get the feeling that the League has been (quietly) “assuring” payroll has been met this season. And while I’m dwelling on the subject, I get the sense that the city of Tempe will continue on regardless of the current optics and potential outcome regarding IceArizona.
 

Ernie

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Aug 3, 2004
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Coyotes say they will be current this morning.


This has already been posted and mocked several times.

Welp, I'd say that Bettman has his scapegoat now for moving the team. And you know, fair enough!

I'll always be curious to see if the NHL could have worked in Phoenix. If the 2008 real estate meltdown hadn't have happened, the story could have been much different.

Edit:

To expand on this a little more, the Coyotes sucked before the 2008 lockout. 6 straight seasons of missed playoffs. But most of that was before the cap era where they had no chance of competing.

Even then, they were regularly drawing 15000 people. Even if you just adjust for 30% population growth in the Phoenix area since then, the Glendale arena would be bursting at the seams. And with a competitive team? I could see the Coyotes being a very successful business.

But the team has been cursed with a string of absolutely horrible owners. And the product on the ice has been horrific.

Maybe Bettman smartens up, forces Meruelo to sell, and goes back to Glendale with the offer of a long term lease.

This doesn't have to be a failure.
 
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JimAnchower

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Dec 8, 2012
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The second letter from Glendale to the Coyotes, the notice of cancellation of the business lease.

2-b894cf4cf2.jpg
 
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