Prospect Info: Cutter Gauthier

[GermanRocket7]

I thought I heard this but I'm not certain so asking for clarification: isn't that what Philly was going to do and then went back on it and he soured on them?

As far as I remember, Brierè wanted to get him signed before the season's end at first and then decided for him to start with their 2023 training camp, so that they don't burn his first year of ELC for just one (or a few) games.
That change of heart alongside the prospect of losing out on a lot of money made Gauthier reevaluate his situation and made him decide he'll report back to college first and then sit out his eligibility until he can pick a team.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I thought I heard this but I'm not certain so asking for clarification: isn't that what Philly was going to do and then went back on it and he soured on them?

That’s a story that’s out there. But nobody knows any details even if that’s the root of his breakup with the Flyers.

 

[FiveTacos]

I thought I heard this but I'm not certain so asking for clarification: isn't that what Philly was going to do and then went back on it and he soured on them?

Yes but since he was 19 last year he would have needed 10 games, which could have happened if they'd signed him last March. They apparently wanted to wait until after the season instead.

Because of the rules, signing this year and burning the ELC year now will effectively be no different in terms of his financials going forward than if he'd signed last May-July like the Flyers wanted.

It's still the most likely explanation for him not wanting to stay there. Although when the agent said there was something with the family, it did raise some alarm bells in my head about what could have happened with a family member that would make a guy not comfortable signing with a particular team.

But it's all speculation. I just don't buy for one second that the Flyers don't know what happened, they'd just rather not talk about it.

 

[anezthes]

Wait, we're gonna get like 1 NHL game out of him this year? What a bummer.

 

[FiveTacos]

Wait, we're gonna get like 1 NHL game out of him this year? What a bummer.

Unless his team bombs in the postseason.

Honestly the big game experience will be better for his development than a handful of games playing out the string.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Wait, we're gonna get like 1 NHL game out of him this year? What a bummer.

Maybe 2, so we’ll only be half as disappointed?

 

[Leonardo87]

Maybe 2, so we’ll only be half as disappointed?

BC is so good , I doubt they get booted earlier. Here is the schedule in case folks were curious…

• Round 1. Thu and Fri. Mar 28‑29.
• Round 2. Sat and Sun. Mar 30‑31.
• Frozen 4. Tampa. Thu Apr 11.
• Championship Game. Tampa. Sat Apr 13.

 

[Ducks DVM]

BC is so good , I doubt they get booted earlier. Here is the schedule in case folks were curious…

• Round 1. Thu and Fri. Mar 28‑29.
• Round 2. Sat and Sun. Mar 30‑31.
• Frozen 4. Tampa. Thu Apr 11.
• Championship Game. Tampa. Sat Apr 13.

Hmm. Actually, I need to have them miss the entire Frozen 4. Last home game is April 12th. It’s fan appreciation night, I feel he should be appreciating us.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Yes but since he was 19 last year he would have needed 10 games, which could have happened if they'd signed him last March. They apparently wanted to wait until after the season instead.

Because of the rules, signing this year and burning the ELC year now will effectively be no different in terms of his financials going forward than if he'd signed last May-July like the Flyers wanted.

It's still the most likely explanation for him not wanting to stay there. Although when the agent said there was something with the family, it did raise some alarm bells in my head about what could have happened with a family member that would make a guy not comfortable signing with a particular team.

But it's all speculation. I just don't buy for one second that the Flyers don't know what happened, they'd just rather not talk about it.

I don't know if the 10 game pertains to college players. Here's a snippet from Daily Faceoff, on a March 10, 2022 article:

So what does this have to do with players leaving college to turn pro?​

​

College players and teams have the option to sign “future contracts” which will take effect at the commencement of the next league year or a “current contract” that is effective immediately. A current contract will use up, or “burn,” the first year of the player’s entry-level deal, even if the player plays in just a single game that season. ​

​

A player doesn’t accrue a completed season for the purposes of free agency, salary arbitration eligibility or expansion protection until he has played 10 games in a season, but for the purpose of burning a year of the ELC, one game is all it takes.​

What's great about this article is it posited a situation similar to Cutter and the Flyers:

At first glance, it appears players have a massive incentive to burn their first entry-level year in order to get to their second contract (where they will have restricted free agent status) as fast as possible. A player can be paid a full-year’s signing bonus for playing that one game (or a few games) in April or May and then get another full year’s signing bonus payment as soon as July 1 of that same year. That’s up to $185,000 in less than four months, big money for a kid coming out of college. He will also be a year closer to a potential large pay day as a restricted free agent.​

​

Conversely, teams generally want the cost control associated with players staying on entry-level deals for as long as possible. It is always a risk for a club to allow a player with star potential to burn a year, forcing the club into a situation where it may need to pay the player significantly increased compensation (and incur a higher cap hit) a year earlier than necessary.​

 

[70sSanO]

PV needs to sign and play him and burn a year. Worry about the next contract down the road if Gauthier is the real deal.

John

 

[SmokeyDuck]

PV needs to sign and play him and burn a year. Worry about the next contract down the road if Gauthier is the real deal.

John

That's always been the plan has it not?

 

[70sSanO]

That's always been the plan has it not?

Playing a prospect 1 or 2 games that burns a year is probably not the typical plan.

But with Gauthier, and how we got him, it makes sense to basically pay him the year Philly didn’t; if I correctly understand what @Hockey Duckie posted.

John

 

[Gliff]

Playing a prospect 1 or 2 games that burns a year is probably not the typical plan.

But with Gauthier, and how we got him, it makes sense to basically pay him the year Philly didn’t; if I correctly understand what @Hockey Duckie posted.

John

It’s the plan for most NCAA signings. Terry, LaCombe, etc.

 

[70sSanO]

Yeah, maybe in October. Then AHL and potentially back after the TDL.

April is a bit different since the year is gone.

John

 

[GermanRocket7]

Barring injuries and what-have-you, I actually and honestly expect Gauthier to lead this team in goals in two years' time already. Guy may be a bit of a floater in some areas, but his release and accuracy already are elite. I wouldn't be shocked if he hit 40 or even 50 some time down the road, though I wouldn't hold my breath if he didn't. He should at least be a very dependable 30+ goal scorer on a perennial basis.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Current Ducks/Gulls collegiate players, signing date

LaCombe - April 10, 2023
Helleson - March 15, 2022
Nesterenko - March 15, 2023
Zegras - March 27, 2020
Terry - March 27, 2018
McLaughlin - April 10, 2022
Lopina - March 22, 2022
Caulfield - April 2, 2023
Vatrano - March 15, 2015
Stalock - April 13, 2009

 

[Gliff]

Yeah, maybe in October. Then AHL and potentially back after the TDL.

April is a bit different since the year is gone.

John

It really isn’t. You’re very wrong here. A simple google search will show it.

 

[Leonardo87]

Gauthier made wheeler’s top 5…


Tier 1:
#1 Matvei Michkov
#2 SImon Nemec

Tier 2:
#3 Brandt Clarke
#4 Will Smith
#5 Cutter Gauthier
#6 Zach Benson
#7 Gabe Perreault
#8 Alexander Nikishin
#9 Kent Johnson
#10 David Jiricek

Love how some people are upset with Gauthier’s rankings and he is leading his league in goals with 31 and is 2nd in points.

 

[70sSanO]

Not the signing date. That means little. Most college prospects get “signed” in Spring/Summer after their NCAA season/draft.

I’m talking playing date. I believe stepping on the ice with the big club impacts the ELC per @Hockey Duckie post.

John

 

[FiveTacos]

Love how some people are upset with Gauthier’s rankings and he is leading his league in goals with 31 and is 2nd in points.

The rankings are silly anyway. Except for the clear superstar talents, is there really a massive difference between prospects in roughly the same tier? Most of the top 15 or so guys are all highly desirable, and you'd give up roughly similar value for them, individual team needs or preferences aside.

 

[gilfaizon]

PV needs to sign and play him and burn a year. Worry about the next contract down the road if Gauthier is the real deal.

John

I believe Gauthier would need 10 games to burn a year (due to his age), and he can only play a couple. His ELC will slide.

 

[All Mighty]

I believe Gauthier would need 10 games to burn a year (due to his age), and he can only play a couple. His ELC will slide.

He only needs 1 game to burn a year. He would need 10 if this were after his freshman year (Clayton Keller is the recent example of this). After his sophomore year, he only needs 1 (Boeser only played 9 after his sophomore year and burned a contract year).

 

[70sSanO]

I believe Gauthier would need 10 games to burn a year (due to his age), and he can only play a couple. His ELC will slide.

That might be true. It may just be the signing bonus. All of this came about from a question of what happens if Gauthier plays a couple games in April.

I still think PV should throw the cost considerations out the window and let Gauthier play.

If you get a gift, then don’t screw it up for a few bucks. Keep the kid happy, sign him, play him, and laugh about the theft if he hits or exceeds expectations.

John

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Playing a prospect 1 or 2 games that burns a year is probably not the typical plan.

But with Gauthier, and how we got him, it makes sense to basically pay him the year Philly didn’t; if I correctly understand what @Hockey Duckie posted.

John

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College Prospects: Current and Future Contracts
================================

Collegians who leave college will become FA if they are not signed by a specific date during the summer. For example, Colangelo needs to be signed by Aug 15, 2024 of this year or he becomes a FA. Of course, we will know far sooner than that because if Colangelo refuses to sign with the Ducks, then we will most likely be trading his rights like we did with Henry Thrun at last year's TDL.

It's typical for teams to sign their college prospects as soon as their college careers are over or they become free agents, but there is a difference between the contracts they sign.

There two types of contracts with collegians: future contract and current contract. A future contract means the ELC will start next season. A current contract means the ELC will start immediately this season, where playing one NHL game will trigger the ELC and burning a year of the ELC.

CHL and European prospects do no have this ability to become free agents. Their only option is to sign a future contract.

If a collegian isn't a high-end prospect and compliant to the org, then they'll sign a future contract. This is what happened with Drew Helleson. We acquired the rights of Helleson with the Manson trade at the 2021-22 TDL. As soon as Helleson's NCAA career ended, then Verbeek offered him a future contract. Helleson was assigned to the AHL. Helleson's ELC would slide/start in the 2022-23 season. (Source: CapFriendly)

If a collegian is a high-end prospect, then the org will want to entice that high-end prospect with a current contract to help burn a year off the ELC. This is typical with high-end prospects. That means the high-end prospect will play at least one NHL game to trigger the ELC. We have two examples of from last year, but with different ways to landing the current contract in LaCombe and Nesterenko.

LaCombe was highly sought after in his junior year, but he returned to college. Upon signing his current contract after his senior season ended, LaCombe played two games for the Ducks at the end of the 2022-23 season to start his ELC.

Nesterenko's rights were acquired in the Klingberg trade during the 2022-23 TDL. After Nesterenko's NCAA career was over, there were reports that Verbeek signed Nesterenko to a future contract (meaning his ELC would start in the 2023-24 season). But turned out it was wrong and Nesterenko signed a current contract. He played 9 NHL games to close the season. We have no idea if Nesterenko pushed his hands to go FA if he was not offered the current contract. Nestrenko wasn't considered a high-end prospect.

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Cutter situation
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If Philly did sign Cutter to a current contract last season (2022-23), then his ELC would have started last season. That did not happen as Philly wanted a future contract signed, where the ELC would start in the 2023-24 season. That's probably when Cutter did not want to be a part of the Philly org because Cutter lost a season off of his ELC as well as the cash bonus for that season. This season would be year 2 of his ELC.

Anaheim acquired Cutter's rights this year. We're planning on signing him to a current contract to start his ELC this season. This season would be year 1 of his ELC.

 

[gilfaizon]

He only needs 1 game to burn a year. He would need 10 if this were after his freshman year (Clayton Keller is the recent example of this). After his sophomore year, he only needs 1 (Boeser only played 9 after his sophomore year and burned a contract year).

I'm using this (from capfriendly)

If a player who is signed to an entry-level contract and is 18 or 19 years of age (as of September 15 of the signing year), does not play in a minimum of 10 NHL games (including both regular season and playoffs; AHL games do not count), their contract is considered to ‘slide’, or extend, by one year. For example, if a player signed an ELC for three seasons from 2015-16 to 2017-2018, and their contract slides, their contract is now effective from 2016-17 to 2018-19. An exception to this rule is that if the player is 19 on September 15 of the first year of their contract, and turns 20 between September 16 and December 31, their contract does not slide.

Cutter was 19 as of September 15th of this season. He turned 20 on January 19th. And isn't an exception to the rule as he did not turn 20 between Sept 16-Dec 31st. The wording on these is tricky but i've seen a Philly website also mention that his ELC would slide as well, before he was traded.

Also, as per capfriendly, Kellers contract in fact slid in the first season.