Current Rangers, History, Records, and Immortalization

Graves and Hadfield felt like thinly veiled excuses to sell out a mid-season game. I think Richter should be the floor for jersey retirement.
I tend to agree with that. Was Hadfield separate from Messier? I can't remember. Vics stats are kind of similar to CKs. I just didn't want it to become like the Islanders.

I just thought of something. You mentioned Richter. Mike made the USA Hall Of Fame. I wonder if CK has a chance at that.
 
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Graves was for his off-ice work. In all of sports, I have never witnessed a person give their personal time, no matter how big or small the cause, like Adam Graves
Great guy but personally I'd rather honor his off ice work in a different manner. Maybe I'm too old school but I tend to think jersey retirement should be based on play in the jersey.
 
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Graves was NYR's Daneyko. It is what it is.

Who knows how long professional sports will be a big thing. It's only been for the last 150 years or so. I doubt we're going to run out of numbers.
 
Graves was NYR's Daneyko. It is what it is.

Who knows how long professional sports will be a big thing. It's only been for the last 150 years or so. I doubt we're going to run out of numbers.

For me it is not about running out of numbers. Again maybe I'm too old school but when I was a kid at a game seeing how few jerseys were up there really made it a special honor. Hanging one for Billy Joel was also weird to me.
 
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For me it is not about running out of numbers. Again maybe I'm too old school but when I was a kid at a game seeing how few jerseys were up there really made it a special honor. Hanging one for Billy Joel was also weird to me.

Yeah, there's that side of it. But, then there's also the side of it that these guys will have been playing on a franchise that's been around for (by the time they retire) over a hundred years fielding, presumably, thousands of players and they'll all be top 10 in scoring ALL TIME.

Personally, I loved Graves but he's really on the fence for me as retired number. Brooks recently made an argument for Brad Park but his Ranger career was far too short.
 
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I tend to agree with that. Was Hadfield separate from Messier? I can't remember. Vics stats are kind of similar to CKs. I just didn't want it to become like the Islanders.

I just thought of something. You mentioned Richter. Mike made the USA Hall Of Fame. I wonder if CK has a chance at that.

They retired Ratelle's number in 2018 and at the ceremony they announced Hadfield's upcoming jersey retirement. It felt more like a "We feel bad you're left out and we want the GAG line up there as a whole" kind of gesture more than anything.

Neither Graves nor Hadfield should be up there. And I am on the fence about Ratelle and Richter.

Until 2004, the Rangers had only retired 2 numbers (Gilbert in 1979 and Giacomin in 1989). Then they retired 6 numbers in 5 years (Richter, Messier, Leetch, Graves, Bathgate and Howell). Definitely overkill, but it was lucrative business for the Rangers. Event nights sell.
 
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They retired Ratelle's number in 2018 and at the ceremony they announced Hadfield's upcoming jersey retirement. It felt more like a "We feel bad you're left out and we want the GAG line up there as a whole" kind of gesture more than anything.

Neither Graves nor Hadfield should be up there. And I am on the fence about Ratelle and Richter.

Until 2004, the Rangers had only retired 2 numbers (Gilbert in 1979 and Giacomin in 1989). Then they retired 6 numbers in 5 years (Richter, Messier, Leetch, Graves, Bathgate and Howell). Definitely overkill, but it was lucrative business for the Rangers. Event nights sell.
Yeah things definitely changed a bit. I'm totally okay with Ratelle though because he is top 3 in goals, assists and points. I think Gilbert, Leetch and Ratelle should be there. Andy Bathgate as well. If we have Eddie and Lundy then Richter probably makes sense as well in goal.

Graves, Hadfield, and Billy Joel are the big question marks for me.
 
Yeah, there's that side of it. But, then there's also the side of it that these guys will have been playing on a franchise that's been around for (by the time they retire) over a hundred years fielding, presumably, thousands of players and they'll all be top 10 in scoring ALL TIME.

Personally, I loved Graves but he's really on the fence for me as retired number. Brooks recently made an argument for Brad Park but his Ranger career was far too short.
I can see both sides of the Brad Park decision. Great while he was here but as you mentioned that was less than half his career. I will say Brad before Graves, Vic, and Billy Joel. Nobody from our 1979 team is up there. Gresch is top 7 in points, assists, and games but is it my heart or my head speaking?
 
Yeah things definitely changed a bit. I'm totally okay with Ratelle though because he is top 3 in goals, assists and points. I think Gilbert, Leetch and Ratelle should be there. Andy Bathgate as well. If we have Eddie and Lundy then Richter probably makes sense as well in goal.

Graves, Hadfield, and Billy Joel are the big question marks for me.

My feelings on Ratelle are basically this:

If Ratelle gets his number retired because he's top-3 in scoring, then Kreider and Zibanejad will get there as well (Assuming they play out their contracts and they hit 1000 points as projected).

Ratelle, Graves and Hadfield essentially opened the door for guys like Kreider and Zibanejad to get their number retired.
 
I can see both sides of the Brad Park decision. Great while he was here but as you mentioned that was less than half his career. I will say Brad before Graves, Vic, and Billy Joel. Nobody from our 1979 team is up there. Gresch is top 7 in points, assists, and games but is it my heart or my head speaking?
Tkaczuk should be there before them (would also tie into 1979)
 
Graves was for his off-ice work. In all of sports, I have never witnessed a person give their personal time, no matter how big or small the cause, like Adam Graves
He gave it all on the ice as well .Not all success is measured in stats . Somebody in the organization obviously though a lot of him to give him employment after hockey.....that in itself says a lot of his stature in NY circles . He deserves to be up there ....Hadfield although a fav of mine....maybe not so much . What I do hate is seeing uniform numbers out of commission . I would love to see many more single digit numbers back in use around the league. They bring back memories for many of us older fans .
 
My feelings on Ratelle are basically this:

If Ratelle gets his number retired because he's top-3 in scoring, then Kreider and Zibanejad will get there as well (Assuming they play out their contracts and they hit 1000 points as projected).

Ratelle, Graves and Hadfield essentially opened the door for guys like Kreider and Zibanejad to get their number retired.
If they get to that level they might but that is a distance away yet. Jean Ratelle was a NHL Hall Of Famer. I do not think that CK and Zibs are at his level but hopefully the best is yet to come for them.

Tkaczuk should be there before them (would also tie into 1979)
I was thinking of Walter. Walter is a tough call for me. If I had to pick Gresch or Walter I would lean Gresch. I'm not sure either guy has a great case though.
 
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If they get to that level they might but that is a distance away yet. Jean Ratelle was a NHL Hall Of Famer. I do not think that CK and Zibs are at his level but hopefully the best is yet to come for them.


I was thinking of Walter. Walter is a tough call for me. If I had to pick Gresch or Walter I would lean Gresch. I'm not sure either guy has a great case though.

Tkaczuk should be in for being the first European-born captain of the team on top of being a top-5 player in multiple major categories. That's groundbreaking, although he grew up in Canada, it's still a milestone.
 
I can see both sides of the Brad Park decision. Great while he was here but as you mentioned that was less than half his career. I will say Brad before Graves, Vic, and Billy Joel. Nobody from our 1979 team is up there. Gresch is top 7 in points, assists, and games but is it my heart or my head speaking?

No way do I put Park over Graves. Yeah, he was the 2nd best defenseman in the league for us for a number of years but 465, or whatever, games just isn't enough and he played more games for other teams. No way no how.

Graves is fringe. Hadfield is more fringe. Greschner had a supremely long Rangers career which led to those numbers. Love the guy, but he's even more fringe.
 
I have always wanted Gresh who was one of my favorite players ever but understood that he was not a HOF guy and did not win a cup.
Gresh is an enigma.....Record wise, I believe he is #3 on all-time Rangers list -- I recall seeing that he broke most of Howell's records and held them until Leetch surpassed him. Plus he played his entire career here. While not enough to get him into NHLHOF, I think it should be enough to raise his number. I think the biggest drawback for Gresh is that he didn't play defense his entire career.....Rangers used him as a center as well and I do recall there was some question as to how many points he scored at each position.
 
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Gresh is an enigma.....Record wise, I believe he is #3 on all-time Rangers list -- I recall seeing that he broke most of Howell's records and held them until Leetch surpassed him. Plus he played his entire career here. While not enough to get him into NHLHOF, I think it should be enough to raise his number. I think the biggest drawback for Gresh is that he didn't play defense his entire career.....Rangers used him as a center as well and I do recall there was some question as to how many points he scored at each position.
I liked the games Grech played as a forward. Reijo as well but they were a small portion of his career. He scored just as much from defense. When I was a little kid Gresch had a 3 game streak where once a game he rushed the puck up end to end around almost everyone for a goal. That was so cool!
 
That was Walt and Billy Fairbairn….Sarge really didn’t go on the PK.

but that line (variations of the Bulldog line)…was always a perfect second line (yes, line numbering is a thing)
You're right -- it was Fairbairn.
 
I don't post often but when I do, I sometimes say the same thing: my Ranger memories go back to 1958, I became a hardcore fan circa 1963, and I was a season ticket holder in the old blue seats through the Francis era. I saw all of the players with retired numbers play and I have no issue at all with any of them. So perhaps I can bring some perspective. Let me also say, by way of analogy, that when it comes to induction in the baseball HOF, I am a "big hall guy" I also don't believe that you need to win a Cup to have your number retired. How many of those "up there" have?

First, Hadfield. Team captain, wing on the GAG line, 50 goal scorer, feared fighter, one the key cogs in the emergence of the team after years of mediocrity. No, no problem at all.

Walt Tkaczuk: nobody thought of him as a European player just because he was born there. Does anyone thing of HOFer Stan Mikita as a European player? Both were Canadian through and through. In the old days, teams could bring up their junior players for brief trials and WT made his debut at the old Garden. When he first came up, the big discussion about him was "how do we pronounce his name?" Prototypical 2nd line center, extremely strong on his skates. Just a solid guy who had a fine career...but should he have his number retired? No. WT is almost one month older than me, to give you some idea of my age.

Ron Greschner: honestly, I just never was a big fan of his. He was always lacking that "something" that to me, made him worthy of retiring his number. Fine player, fine career, but, no,

Brad Park: absolutely.

The guys of the Cup team: while I don't think you need a Cup to have your number retired, winning a Cup is special (and one of the highlights of my life), so yes to all of them there, including Graves. There are so many parallels with Hadfield.

Current guys:
Kreider: absolutely, positively. Leader, mentor, example, 50 goal scorer, one of my favorite all time players, in so many ways, he is the "Mr. Ranger" of the current era. Hope he gets to stay here until he retires. I only think of him in superlatives.

Mika: interesting how this has just come up with him. Just a few weeks ago, when there was discussion of CK's achievements, I was kind of shocked to realize how quickly MZ is rising through the ranks of all time Ranger stats. If he stays here for many more years with some high end years included, and ends up at or near the top of Ranger stats, how could you not include him?

Fox: absolutely on a HOF track. I do worry about how he will age given is smaller size and his lack of above average foot speed. What will he look like at age 30 having lost a step and accumulated some injuries? But right now, I can see, well in the future, his number retired.

When are the Rangers going to do something for the real older guys (players even before my time that I heard of from my Dad)? The Cooks, Boucher, etc. I have always felt that, perhaps, a joint banner with all their names on it, should be raised to the roof.
 
Fox: absolutely on a HOF track. I do worry about how he will age given is smaller size and his lack of above average foot speed. What will he look like at age 30 having lost a step and accumulated some injuries? But right now, I can see, well in the future, his number retired.
This is SO premature, I can't help but roll my eyes. Winning the Norris once doesn't automatically ensure someone is on a "HOF track".
 
Not being a player numbers guy I'm not as concerned with having numbers available or having too many hanging. If a guy was a franchise's star, honor him. I think most fans have a bias to their time, especially when they were younger and it was more hero worship.

So....Park - Rangers traded him away, he didn't choose to leave. Plus, like Hadfield and Graves it'll be a number that's already retired. (Yeah Graves was the first for 8, but that's because the Rangers were TOO stingy for years. Greschner - yeah why not. Kreider and Mike, yep if they continue their current path. Win a cup and it'll open it up for more.

Let's celebrate our heroes.
 

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