Prospect Info: Current #2 overall poll and discussion

[glenwo2]

Glad to read Fitz saying that if a C is their BPA, he won't hesitate.

I think that puts to bed any notion of him picking any of the D-men that is being mentioned here by a few.

#2 is too high for Jiricek/Nemec

Wright (if Slaf is picked by the Habs) *has to* be the pick at #2.

 

[AfroThunder396]

If Montreal really wants Wright they aren't going to dick around and try to get NJ to trade up from #2 to #1.

They want Slafkovsky but are too scared to actually pull the trigger. Picking the wrong guy at #1 overall is a huge gamble, so is passing on a safe #1 center to pick a raw winger who didn't really produce in his draft year until basically right now.

If MTL picks Slaf #1 there's an enormous amount of pressure on him/them. Letting NJ trade up allows them to save face and punt the decision to another team.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

He isn’t the same as Nico though. Has a better shot and probably a better hockey IQ as well.
I don’t think he has as much speed or 1-on-1 skill though.

I very clearly said stylistically. I think they are very similar in that regard. Wright isn't a Zegras or Hughes type player.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I also keep seeing nonsense about how Slaf will be booed if the Habs don't take Wright, the Canadian boy. I think that's ludicrous as well. Many Habs fans simply want a good player and to get their rebuild in momentum.

You don't know montreal fans then

 

[TheSituation]

Holy balls!

I would be LIVID at Fitz if he picked Cooley over Slaf.

Especially since Slaf not only is the BETTER PLAYER, he's also the "NEED" the Devils require for the team.

Devils do not "NEED" another center and Cooley is NOT Shane Wright.


Also, I love this reply by someone there in regards to this statement :


If anyone else can explain this logic, or even what this sentence means, let us know. Also, if your only knock on him is his mobility, that's not a great argument. For a power forward, Slafkovsky is actually widely regarded as a very good skater for his size so where are your receipts on his mobility being an issue? He certainly "has NHL speed" according to Pronman, for example, though he and Wheeler acknowledge that not many power forwards are very effective above 220 lbs. Could the bias towards Cooley be that he plays a 'premium position'? What good is Cooley if he's dishing to guys who can't score? That's what we have now and it ain't working.

For me it's not just positional fit. But the lack of grit this team has is embarrassing. Slaf fits that to the T. We might have had one of the fastest teams in the NHL last year when Wood was healthy and look at us.

 

[Eggtimer]

For me it's not just positional fit. But the lack of grit this team has is embarrassing. Slaf fits that to the T. We might have had one of the fastest teams in the NHL last year when Wood was healthy and look at us.

There is no denying that we are one if the easiest to play against / softest teams in the league . Absolutely need to address that . The Bruins massacring us thisvisst season was a perfect example . They clogged up the neutral zone against us and negated the rush . We could not do anything about it . Take away the rush from us and we are screwed .

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I very clearly said stylistically. I think they are very similar in that regard. Wright isn't a Zegras or Hughes type player.

I think they’re very stylistically different. They play a very different game.

Apart from the the physical differences in how they skate, shoot, etc.
They don’t play the same way really at all.
Nico’s a hound and high energy player and is more of a puck carrier. He plays kind of bullish with skill.
Wright plays a slower, more methodical game which is completely centered around his IQ, reading of the play and vision. He doesn’t often hold onto the puck too long but is always a great support option for his teammates.
That’s a big part of why I think he could be good with Hughes.

He’s gonna let Hughes do the puck carrying while being a good supporting option and then he’ll be good at getting it back to him when he gets it or he can use his good shot.
I don’t see all that in Nico which is why I don’t think it would be very similar to Hughes and Nico playing together.

 

[Traitor Zach]

They want Slafkovsky but are too scared to actually pull the trigger. Picking the wrong guy at #1 overall is a huge gamble, so is passing on a safe #1 center to pick a raw winger who didn't really produce in his draft year until basically right now.

If MTL picks Slaf #1 there's an enormous amount of pressure on him/them. Letting NJ trade up allows them to save face and punt the decision to another team.

This is not true at all.

There is equal pressure on Wright as pick (Canadian - #1) and in fact I would argue more. There's pressure points everywhere. If they deflect on picking 1st I will come back and eat my words wholesale, but i just do not see any way they can look at themselves in the mirror and their fan base and say "we were too chicken, so we let NJ or team X make our decision for us".

Real GMs don't think in the way you propose in your initial sentence (maybe the old guard decades ago did, but not today's hypertensive business/competition model in the various leagues).

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

Sorry, I've been out of town for the past week and haven't really been checking in beyond the occasional glance at Twitter. Sorry If I rehashed an earlier discussion.

Not at all targeted at you, this board has just been posting around the same topic for too long

 

[RSeen]

I think that puts to bed any notion of him picking any of the D-men that is being mentioned here by a few.

#2 is too high for Jiricek/Nemec

Wright (if Slaf is picked by the Habs) *has to* be the pick at #2.

If he is who the scouts have as BPA, then take the Dman.

We really don't know what is or is not too high, none of us are scouts.

 

[My3Sons]

I didn't scouted Smith in his draft year, but he was horrible skater in year one. His skating against the rushes was horrible. I remember he did fell on his vss like two times in one game and thre straight games or something like that, was pushing away from the puck everytime on the boards, and didn't challenge opponents and even didn't try. But everybody were happy about another pp point.
I should say skating should be avarage at minimum in every skating aspect. Injuricek was above avarage skater before the injury, and now its hard to say how it will gonna work. Schneider did have some skating question, especially starting speed and first steps, but now when I did look at him, he makes some steps in development.. skating isn't a thing you can't develope, but when I have Smith, Foote and Holtz on the roster, who really didn't change their skating well, im little nervous about drafting player with skating issues by top pick.
For example Slafkovsky develop his skating when the season was going and that was a mark of high quality for me. Wright didn't and he isn't on the level with slafkovsky as prospect , but he is avarage or above avarage skater at least in different aspects of the skating.

I agree that as the game gets incrementally faster every few years it seems that skating has to become incrementally more important. Smith probably was at least average in 2018 but roll the clock forward a few years and he looks woefully out of place. Hopefully it's all injury related and he can at least become average in four way mobility. Foote was a trade so I'm not sure he can be evaluated the same way. I am going to be criticized, but to my eyes, Holtz looks too bulky. I get that at 5'11" he wants to be sturdy, but he might benefit from slimming down a bit. He's young and again, if he can just get to average three way mobility he should be fine.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Here's few from the other thread:

"Elite skating defender whose upside is not far off from the top defenders in the 2018 class" ISS Hockey 2017

"Smith is an excellent skater. He can rush the puck up the ice, or pinch in at the blue line and still cover up his spot defensively. He has excellent speed in both directions. His acceleration is elite, as he reaches top speed in just one or two strides." LWOS

"Smaller, faster players are becoming more common on the blue line, and Smith fits the mold of how future NHLers are trending." - NJ.com

"LD T. Smith while Dahlin is far-and-away the class of the class of 2018, not much separates Hughes/Boqvist/Smith. They are all undersized, extremely fast, extremely smart, extremely skilled. One of my favorite prospects in this draft. Although he is one of many super-fast, offensive-minded and undersized defensemen in this draft, he is also outstanding defensively. He has elite vision and intelligence, and he is as competitive as any player available. Reminds me a lot of a young Duncan Keith."
- @StevenToddIves

Smith is a curious case. He played and thought quite fast in the WHL. He played and thought pretty fast in his rookie year with the Devils. Last year the biggest part of his regression was that he seemed to be skating and thinking through a tub of wet concrete. I can't explain what the problem was.

I certainly look a bit silly now for putting Smith (and Boqvist) in the same stratosphere as Quinn Hughes, not to mention for comparing Smith to Duncan Keith. But again, I expected Smith to progress from 2018, and he really hasn't to any particular degree. The skating speed is not even as big of a concern for me as Smith's inability to think the game at an NHL pace last year.

 

[goonybird]

is Stephen Gionta draft eligible again?

 

[StevenToddIves]

I agree that as the game gets incrementally faster every few years it seems that skating has to become incrementally more important. Smith probably was at least average in 2018 but roll the clock forward a few years and he looks woefully out of place. Hopefully it's all injury related and he can at least become average in four way mobility. Foote was a trade so I'm not sure he can be evaluated the same way. I am going to be criticized, but to my eyes, Holtz looks too bulky. I get that at 5'11" he wants to be sturdy, but he might benefit from slimming down a bit. He's young and again, if he can just get to average three way mobility he should be fine.

If I'm Fitzgerald, there's no way I go into camp with Smith still on the roster. Smith still has good trade value right now, but that drops precipitously if he loses a camp battle for 3-LD vs. Okhotyuk, Bahl or Mukhamadullin and enters the year as a healthy scratch. And to be honest, I can't see any way Smith wins that camp battle. Okhotyuk in particular is bigger, faster, more physical and significantly better defensively. Bahl has problems, sure, but he's 6'7 and skates as well as Smith. Mukhamadullin has the most upside of any of these players. Smith isn't outperforming those three for the job.

I'd like to see Smith moved. There are some good, under-the-radar forwards available who could help in our top 9. Carolina might be shopping Necas, and I think a Necas-for-Smith straight up swap of underperforming 1st round picks might be good for both players and both teams. LA needs bodies for the blueline, and the Devils use Smith to get an extremely fast center prospect in Alex Turcotte, who is also a good friend of Jack Hughes which might offset the loss of Smith, who Jack is pretty tight with. There are many possibilities.

But ultimately, I think Smith's days on the Devils should and probably will be done. Fitzgerald has stated a desire to get more difficult to play against, and Smith is a mismatch for NJ against high-end forwards right now. Maybe he'll bounce back and I hope he does, it's just growing less likely that this occurs in New Jersey.

I think they’re very stylistically different. They play a very different game.

Apart from the the physical differences in how they skate, shoot, etc.
They don’t play the same way really at all.
Nico’s a hound and high energy player and is more of a puck carrier. He plays kind of bullish with skill.
Wright plays a slower, more methodical game which is completely centered around his IQ, reading of the play and vision. He doesn’t often hold onto the puck too long but is always a great support option for his teammates.
That’s a big part of why I think he could be good with Hughes.

He’s gonna let Hughes do the puck carrying while being a good supporting option and then he’ll be good at getting it back to him when he gets it or he can use his good shot.
I don’t see all that in Nico which is why I don’t think it would be very similar to Hughes and Nico playing together.

I was just asked for a Wright comparison, but couldn't find one. So, I said "Mark Scheifele in the offensive zone, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins in the defensive zone and Anze Kopitar in transition". It's not perfect, but I like it better than anything I've heard so far.

 

[Guttersniped]

They want Slafkovsky but are too scared to actually pull the trigger. Picking the wrong guy at #1 overall is a huge gamble, so is passing on a safe #1 center to pick a raw winger who didn't really produce in his draft year until basically right now.

If MTL picks Slaf #1 there's an enormous amount of pressure on him/them. Letting NJ trade up allows them to save face and punt the decision to another team.

That’s a chickenshit stance. It was in 2017 too when people said they wished we didn’t have the 1st so we wouldn’t have to choose between Nico & Patrick.

While a fabulous consensus 1OA would have been preferable, if your GM would prefer less choice because it would shield him from future blame he’s a shitty GM.

Whether he picks Wright or Slafkovsky, neither is an outrageous choice that will haunt Hughes forever.

I think Montreal will go with a center, not because I wish it but because it’s a more valuable position and they have nothing much beyond Suzuki there.

I guess they can go with Suzuki, Dvorak and stuff next season and hope to address the position next year in a draft strong at center. It’s tough to ask Suzuki to carry that team though and they only have Dvorak for three more seasons.

Slafkovsky could have a high production ceiling theoretically but to me it’s tough to assume he’ll hit it. I don’t see him driving a line. I’m just not sold on Montreal taking him 1OA.

The problem they have is I don’t see anyone trading for the 1OA for any particular player, that only becomes a very slight (but highly unlikely) possibility when guys start to slip down.

I also don’t believe this scenario has to have originated from Montreal management. I can believe they’re still debating who to pick.

 

[My3Sons]

If I'm Fitzgerald, there's no way I go into camp with Smith still on the roster. Smith still has good trade value right now, but that drops precipitously if he loses a camp battle for 3-LD vs. Okhotyuk, Bahl or Mukhamadullin and enters the year as a healthy scratch. And to be honest, I can't see any way Smith wins that camp battle. Okhotyuk in particular is bigger, faster, more physical and significantly better defensively. Bahl has problems, sure, but he's 6'7 and skates as well as Smith. Mukhamadullin has the most upside of any of these players. Smith isn't outperforming those three for the job.

I'd like to see Smith moved. There are some good, under-the-radar forwards available who could help in our top 9. Carolina might be shopping Necas, and I think a Necas-for-Smith straight up swap of underperforming 1st round picks might be good for both players and both teams. LA needs bodies for the blueline, and the Devils use Smith to get an extremely fast center prospect in Alex Turcotte, who is also a good friend of Jack Hughes which might offset the loss of Smith, who Jack is pretty tight with. There are many possibilities.

But ultimately, I think Smith's days on the Devils should and probably will be done. Fitzgerald has stated a desire to get more difficult to play against, and Smith is a mismatch for NJ against high-end forwards right now. Maybe he'll bounce back and I hope he does, it's just growing less likely that this occurs in New Jersey.


I was just asked for a Wright comparison, but couldn't find one. So, I said "Mark Scheifele in the offensive zone, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins in the defensive zone and Anze Kopitar in transition". It's not perfect, but I like it better than anything I've heard so far.

I would see about a similarly situated right shot defender for Smith who is more defensively oriented. That makes more sense to me than another struggling forward. I can't see the organization devoting too many resources to a struggling forward who needs tons of TLC when they have a bunch of forwards who look to be with the team long term already and a few like Zetterlund or Thompson or Foote knocking on the door. If Johnsson, Tatar, and Zacha were sent out tomorrow it's unlikely the team misses a beat. In contrast, I expect they'd spend the extra time and effort to maybe develop a right handed player like Okhotiyuk or Bahl. Can you imagine a right handed Siegenthaler? I am concerned that Smith has Hughes armor until Luke arrives unless Jack has another buddy we don't know about.

 

[Alex NJD]

I don't think Montreal can make a wrong choice between Wright and Slaf and I would be excited with the Devils adding either of them.

Either watch Slaf become an absolute monster on Hughes/Hischier 's wing or terrorize the league with our center depth, total win/win in my book

 

[ninetyeight]

I certainly look a bit silly now for putting Smith (and Boqvist) in the same stratosphere as Quinn Hughes, not to mention for comparing Smith to Duncan Keith.

You call it like you see it, no shame in that. Smith was a great prospect and had very dominant seasons even after being drafted. I'm more patient than you and would love them to give smith one more chance. Ofcourse if someone like Turcotte is available for Smith+ (I doubt it) I'd be all for it. I think his trade value is at an all time low now, so we might as well give him a chance to bounce back. Sophomore slump, injuries, post-covid, terrible goaltending, he was much better at the end of the season.

 

[glenwo2]

If he is who the scouts have as BPA, then take the Dman.

We really don't know what is or is not too high, none of us are scouts.

That's true.

None of us are and all we can do is speculate at this point.

But I believe I'll be proven right come draft night when the expected occurs instead of all these other theories.

We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[BananaGenetics]

I think that puts to bed any notion of him picking any of the D-men that is being mentioned here by a few.

#2 is too high for Jiricek/Nemec

Wright (if Slaf is picked by the Habs) *has to* be the pick at #2.

People would have said #2 was too high for Makar or Quinn Hughes too. Looking back that probably isnt the case anymore

I dont think theres anything wrong with them liking one of the dmen more. Especially in a draft with no consensus top end. But odds are we go forward

 

[glenwo2]

People would have said #2 was too high for Makar or Quinn Hughes too. Looking back that probably isnt the case anymore

I dont think theres anything wrong with them liking one of the dmen more. Especially in a draft with no consensus top end. But odds are we go forward

I don't understand the point you're trying to make by mentioning Makar and Quinn.

Unless it's Hindsight being Hindsight?

Then yeah. If we knew then what we know now, Makar would've went higher and Quinn would've went lower.

It would be another one of those "re-drafts" some people seem to like for some reason.


And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking the Dmen more.

I'm saying that #2 is a bit of a reach for Nemec/Jiricek especially when Wright/Slaf would potentially be in that area.

 

[My3Sons]

I don't understand the point you're trying to make by mentioning Makar and Quinn.

Unless it's Hindsight being Hindsight?

Then yeah. If we knew then what we know now, Makar would've went higher and Quinn would've went lower.

It would be another one of those "re-drafts" some people seem to like for some reason.


And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking the Dmen more.

I'm saying that #2 is a bit of a reach for Nemec/Jiricek especially when Wright/Slaf would potentially be in that area.

Within the next eight to ten years I will be able to tell you the best picks in this draft. Just you wait. You'll see, I'll be proven correct.

 

[Nubmer6]

I don't understand the point you're trying to make by mentioning Makar and Quinn.

Unless it's Hindsight being Hindsight?

Then yeah. If we knew then what we know now, Makar would've went higher and Quinn would've went lower.

It would be another one of those "re-drafts" some people seem to like for some reason.


And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking the Dmen more.

I'm saying that #2 is a bit of a reach for Nemec/Jiricek especially when Wright/Slaf would potentially be in that area.

The point is, if we had the foresight to pick Makar the board (including you) would have flipped out, just like perhaps we have the foresight to pick someone other than the big 2 here that may be the right call, but will cause us (including you) to flip out.

 

[BananaGenetics]

I don't understand the point you're trying to make by mentioning Makar and Quinn.

Unless it's Hindsight being Hindsight?

Then yeah. If we knew then what we know now, Makar would've went higher and Quinn would've went lower.

It would be another one of those "re-drafts" some people seem to like for some reason.


And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking the Dmen more.

I'm saying that #2 is a bit of a reach for Nemec/Jiricek especially when Wright/Slaf would potentially be in that area.

I dont think taking maybe the 4th or 5th best ranked prospect among consensus at 2nd is egregious. So Makar at 2nd looking back wouldnt have been crazy either without hindsight, just unexpected. Seider going 6th was considered crazy, and look how it turned out for them.

I think defense is seeing an influx in good youth around the league. May be a wave worth catching, even if we already did with Luke.

Who by the way, interestingly enough, probably lands with the Devils this year at 2 if he was draft eligible. Funny how that worked out. Jack and the Devils really have a lucky charm up their ass

 

[Nubmer6]

Who by the way, interestingly enough, probably lands with the Devils this year at 2 if he was draft eligible. Funny how that worked out. Jack and the Devils really have a lucky charm up their ass

2? In the razor-thin separation between Slaf and Wright?

I think he'd be in the conversation for 1.