Prospect Info: Current #2 overall poll and discussion

[beekay414]

You cut off the part where I say the difference we are looking at is “incredibly” or “very” talented.

It’s not absurd to say his numbers this year may mean he’s only “very” talented.

He was thought to be “incredibly” talented after his first OHL season but he didn’t put up numbers this year to maintain that level.

That's entirely subjective based on scouting only the production. He's still an immensely talented hockey player. He's not generational but he's also someone that should go #1 overall pretty damn clearly in a class without a generational prospect. I love Slafkovsky but Wright's ability to think the game naturally is what separates him for me. He's not as physically talented as Slaf but his hockey IQ is off the charts. I think, once he gets into a pro environment, it's only going to shine brighter.

I get prospect fatigue and placing guys under a microscope through the process but I'm not worried about Shane Wright one iota. He's going to be a 15+ year top 6 NHLer with 1C upside in the vain of a Kopitar or Bergeron (not saying he's exactly like these guys, saying he's never going to be a dynamic scorer or 100 point player, much like them). You win Cups with guys like Shane Wright in your top 6.

 

[Normal Devil]

108 points in 74 games may not be incredibly eye popping but it also shouldn't be qualified as "not putting up numbers." If you wanna say that you want more eye popping numbers out of a #1 overall pick, fine, but this idea that he didn't produce is absurd.

I think there was a knock that he wasn't selfish enough with the puck this season. Maybe the potential was there to put up a lot more points individually?

 

[glenwo2]

He scored 3 goals in 11 playoff games and your argument is he is too good for the league. Sorry but that doesn't add up.

As per the bold? No, I didn't think that, but I do think bored is not something I want in a high pick.

Again, what is considered "bored"?

You can't look at stats and say he didn't dominate because he was "bored".

 

[beekay414]

If the debate is centered around the idea of Wright being bored/passive, then Hughes is a bad comparison.

What? I specifically brought Hughes up as an example of being brought down by teammates. I never brought him up in the argument for being passive. You took it in that context, I never implied it.

And as per Wright having "lesser teammates". He didn't lead his team in goals, assists or points. 5th in goals in the regular season. Was tied for 7th in playoff goals. 3rd in playoff points.

Again, box score scouting tells me nothing. None of his teammates think the game at his level, none of them are on his level of pedigree and they are all overagers. Chromiak (5th Round Pick), Arcuri (6th Round pick), Frasca (undrafted), Edmonds (double, if not triple, overager). None of them are on his level as a prospect and anybody worth their salt will tell you that. You've said you haven't watched him at all this year, so how are you able to make any assumptions whatsoever?

 

[devilsblood]

Again, what is considered "bored"?

You can't look at stats and say he didn't dominate because he was "bored".

I dunno, people are saying he was bored, all I'm saying is, if he was bored, that's not good.

 

[beekay414]

I think there was a knock that he wasn't selfish enough with the puck this season. Maybe the potential was there to put up a lot more points individually?

That is exactly the issue people have with him. He's too teammate friendly. He makes his teammates better as a sacrifice to his own personal box score success. It's massive overthinking and overly critical of a stud prospect.

Again, what is considered "bored"?

You can't look at stats and say he didn't dominate because he was "bored".

People, or more so, one person, is latching onto the very liberal definition of the word rather than what's being put down about him later. It's the typical HF conversation where someone latches on to something and rides it out while neglecting everything that's being written. It's why I rarely post here lol.

 

[devilsblood]

What? I specifically brought Hughes up as an example of being brought down by teammates. I never brought him up in the argument for being passive. You took it in that context, I never implied it.


Again, box score scouting tells me nothing. None of his teammates think the game at his level, none of them are on his level of pedigree and they are all overagers. Chromiak (5th Round Pick), Arcuri (6th Round pick), Frasca (undrafted), Edmonds (double, if not triple, overager). None of them are on his level as a prospect and anybody worth their salt will tell you that. You've said you haven't watched him at all this year, so how are you able to make any assumptions whatsoever?

I don't care where guys are drafted, if they are scoring more than Wright then the idea that they are dragging him down does not hold water.

Especially in the playoffs.

Lot of excuse making going on here, and the excuses sound lousy.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I’d like to say congrats to this Red Wings blog on coming up with the first trade package for the Devils’ first (provided Wright is available) that might actually be an overpay, even though i’m not sure i’d do it: Bertuzzi, Hronek, 8th overall, and another later pick.



Bertuzzi kinda rubs me the wrong way after we had the vax issue with Blackwood, but i have to admit he’s exactly the type of player the Devils should be looking for. I’m not sure of his contract situation.

I don't think the Devils would want to trade down to #8, because it most likely takes them out of the running for Nemec, Jiricek and Gauthier.

 

[Guadana]

One thing of note is that its not going to be all HF boards prospect crazy people at the draft. The rumors need to spread from the HFboards people to their not as obsessed friends, then to those people's families. It will take time to get to everyone.

Right now they are still at the point of trying to influence people here. Can they really get the information spread over the next 8 days?

We should influence mtl scouts by changing narrative on the hfboard forum. We should push him to draft Lambert and use scouching arguments.

 

[beekay414]

I don't care where guys are drafted, if they are scoring more than Wright then the idea that they are dragging him down does not hold water.

Especially in the playoffs.

Lot of excuse making going on here, and the excuses sound lousy.

lol yeah, we're done here.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I don't think the Devils would want to trade down to #8, because it most likely takes them out of the running for Nemec, Jiricek and Gauthier.

I guess the question would be how quickly and how likely the Devils think Wright would reach a level similar to Bertuzzi, and then whether Hronek helps make up the difference of trading down 6 spots. Bertuzzi, Hronek, and Kemell/Nazar/Korchinski/whoever plus a pick is pretty good value for Shane Wright, but i don’t doubt there’s a lot of people that would disagree. It would certainly make the Devils better next year, so i guess it would come down to how worried Fitz is about being fired.

 

[Hisch13r]

I almost used Hughes when discussing concerns over players being “bored”.

If you put Jack Hughes into a league he’s too good for, he would put up massive numbers and stand out every game because he’s got the drive to win and be the best.

Laine is a lower drive guy but you put him in a league he’s too good for and he’d also put up massive numbers just because of his talent.

Wright being “bored” has ended up with people questioning if he’s incredibly talented or merely very talented. People would be less likely to question this if Wright has put up numbers and/or won everything.

Jack was criticized at the start of his DY season for not taking over and being as good as he could. It literally happened with him too and he turned it on as the season progressed. Very similar thing happened with Wright

 

[Hisch13r]

I guess the question would be how quickly and how likely the Devils think Wright would reach a level similar to Bertuzzi, and then whether Hronek helps make up the difference of trading down 6 spots. Bertuzzi, Hronek, and Kemell/Nazar/Korchinski/whoever plus a pick is pretty good value for Shane Wright, but i don’t doubt there’s a lot of people that would disagree. It would certainly make the Devils better next year, so i guess it would come down to how worried Fitz is about being fired.

I think it’d have to be Nazar. If I’m passing up on Wright I need someone with a super high upside. I’m not taking guys like Kemell or Korchinski who likely end up as 2nd line/2nd pair. I also don’t really have any interest in Hronek. There’s no fit there. He’s like a #4 PP specialist

 

[JimEIV]

Bertuzzi is unrestricted at the end of this season. It makes zero sense...The writer is foolish to even suggest it in regards to a #2 overall.

 

[MauDevils]

I would normally dismiss these rankings having any impact, but between this and all the smoke of Montreal being concerned about Wright...you never know.

I'm fine either way. It's a crapshoot and we just need to take whoever Montreal doesn't.

It really does make me want to just trade the pick even more though. A Tkachuk is looking a hell of a lot better than either of these two.

 

[devilsblood]

Jack was criticized at the start of his DY season for not taking over and being as good as he could. It literally happened with him too and he turned it on as the season progressed. Very similar thing happened with Wright

Hughes had one of the best seasons in USDP history. Whatever talk there was of him not taking over were short lived. While Wright capped a relatively underwhelming regular season, with an even more underwhelming post season.

 

[Devils731]

Jack was criticized at the start of his DY season for not taking over and being as good as he could. It literally happened with him too and he turned it on as the season progressed. Very similar thing happened with Wright

Hughes put up big numbers for his draft season. If Wright ended the year with big numbers for the OHL then he’d still be slam dunk for #1.

 

[Brodeur]

I do find it amusing that FanDuel has prop bets for the NHL Draft. After McKenzie's ranking release, Wright went from -900 to be the top pick to -210 but now settled at -320.

 

[Xirik]

Is it just me, or is arguing about Slafkovsky with a person who obviously has never watched him play just as annoying as someone arguing with you about a book or movie they have never seen?

I just don't get it, how someone can read two blogs on a fan page about a player and think they are an expert on them. On Twitter today I saw Slafkovsky described as "big and slow" and "not very skilled" while I saw Wright described as "the next Nolan Patrick" and "not having much upside".

You can't watch these players for a single game and get that impression, you just can't. They're both terrific players. It's okay to like one better than the other -- most experts would agree it's close at the top between Slaf and Wright -- but why can't people promote the player they want by explaining why they are good instead of going the idiot route and trying to slag the other player?

I guess the obvious answer is that it's far easier to put something down hysterically than to laud something eloquently. Putting a hockey player -- or movie or book -- you've never seen is as simple as comparing them or it to something else bad, or finding an easy trait to put down in a cursory way.

But you can't explain why something is good without having experienced why it is good by actually taking the time to witness it. How do you know why a book is good without reading it? I can talk all day about why Catch-22 was awesome because I read it, but I couldn't tell you why War & Peace was awesome because I never had the patience to read all 12,000 pages of that novel. But an idiot won't want to admit they didn't read Tolstoy so they'll just say "oh it's just another Russian war novel, they're all so boring."

So, the idiots are gonna idiot, trying to say Slafkovsky and Wright lack skill or upside even though Slafkovsky has the best combination of playmaking/puckhandling in the draft and Wright has the best combination of playmaking/shooting in the draft and they're both great prospects and players in virtually any imaginable respect. It's easier than actually taking the time and effort to watch the players, I guess.

Anyway, sorry to rant as a response to you, @Lou is God -- I'm just trying to explain away a lot of the nonsense I've been reading.

People easily fall in love with players, Not everyone can be as cold hearted as you Steve

 

[Xirik]

Also though his lack of compete in the playoffs has been brought up, he seems very competitive based on the interviews. He wants to be the best and wants to be 1OA. He's been the best for so long that getting picked 2nd could reignite his passion to show everyone he should have went #1.

And yeah the Montreal board is a mess, I tried to check it out to see how they feel about all of this, but got a giant headache from it. Some compared Slaf as worse version of Joel Armia, and few people insisted that NJ would trade 2OA pick straight up for Josh Anderson. I find it hard to believe that the fanbase of the all time most successful hockey team and one of the hockey capitals in world, is so out of touch with this sport.

the Montreal board isn't to bad. The problem is that its the most popular board on this site which means there is a lot more dunces then our board comparatively. They have gotten to the critical mass of dunces that there is enough of them to always support and agree with each other no matter the narrative.

 

[Lou Bloom]

That's entirely subjective based on scouting only the production. He's still an immensely talented hockey player. He's not generational but he's also someone that should go #1 overall pretty damn clearly in a class without a generational prospect. I love Slafkovsky but Wright's ability to think the game naturally is what separates him for me. He's not as physically talented as Slaf but his hockey IQ is off the charts. I think, once he gets into a pro environment, it's only going to shine brighter.

I get prospect fatigue and placing guys under a microscope through the process but I'm not worried about Shane Wright one iota. He's going to be a 15+ year top 6 NHLer with 1C upside in the vain of a Kopitar or Bergeron (not saying he's exactly like these guys, saying he's never going to be a dynamic scorer or 100 point player, much like them). You win Cups with guys like Shane Wright in your top 6.

I like Wright but I think you're overrating his IQ/defensive impact. I think he's a smart and poised player but I don't see this elite IQ/Selke level impact that some people are implying. To me his best attribute is his off the puck play as a sniper rather than being a true playmaker/line driver that you'd want out of a 1C. Perhaps there's more development to his game and perhaps there's more playmaking potential than what he showed this season but I don't see how he's done enough to solidify himself as a no doubt #1 pick in this class and I think there's more risk in his profile than what people are saying.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I mean if we first ignore the whole positional thing, I don't see how Wright becoming great and asking for more money is any different than Slaf becoming great and asking for more money.

Do you really not see the issue? If we pay a 3rd line center bigger money, we have to sacrifice on the wingers in the top 6. That's not even what I was referring to anyways. Some guys wanna be the goto guy, like an ego thing. They don't want to be the 2nd or 3rd guy, even if they are getting decent minutes.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I guess the question would be how quickly and how likely the Devils think Wright would reach a level similar to Bertuzzi, and then whether Hronek helps make up the difference of trading down 6 spots. Bertuzzi, Hronek, and Kemell/Nazar/Korchinski/whoever plus a pick is pretty good value for Shane Wright, but i don’t doubt there’s a lot of people that would disagree. It would certainly make the Devils better next year, so i guess it would come down to how worried Fitz is about being fired.

Just for fun, I took a look at what I think would happen if the Devils picked #8. This would be the most probably scenario:

1 MTL Slafkovsky
2 DET Wright
3 ARI Cooley
4 SEA Nemec
5 PHI Gauthier or Jiricek
6 CLB Gauthier or Jiricek
7 OTT ???
8 NJ ???

So, with the Ottawa pick -- well, we know a few things, since they are the easiest team to find an MO for at the draft. They don't draft under 6'0 players and they don't draft Eastern Euro players, especially early on. So we can cross off the smaller scorers -- Savoie, Kemell and Nazar -- and we can cross off the Russians -- Yurov and Miroshnichenko.

I think the front runner here would be Conor Geekie, a 6'4 and extremely skilled Western Canadian center with problems in his compete level and consistency. He's not the best pick here, but we're talking an Ottawa team who used a #10 overall pick last year on Tyler Boucher, who likely goes 3rd Round in a 2021 re-draft.

Ultimately, I'll go with my first instinct:

7 OTT Geekie
8 NJ ???

I'm going to say the front runner here would be Kasper. He's a good-sized center with borderline elite skating, high-end two-way play and extreme physicality but some perceived limitation in his offensive game -- which I often don't entirely disagree with, personally. He'd be the perfect 3C for the Devils down the road behind Hughes/Hischier. Coincidentally, if Detroit were picking #8, Kasper is also the guy I would mock to them at that spot.

 

[Eggtimer]

I honestly believe we have a good chance of signing Gaudreau.
I wonder if Fitz alters his draft priority with pick #2 if he has a feeling they can sign Johhny? Maybe they would be more likely , or open to tradig down a little and take one of Jiricek or Nemec then if we add an elite winger?

I thimk there’s no way to know for certain enough if Johhny will sign to be able to adjust your drafting plans.

Re: Gaudreau that leads me to believe he could sign here :
1. Wife is pregnant with their first kid. His wife is from the area as well. Having famil and friends around when you have your first child would be massive . Also, I’m sure Johnny and his wife would prefer to have their child born in the US instead of Canada . Amd raise their kid where they grew up too.

2. Gaudreau HATES flying . NJ has kne of the best / least amount of travel in the league. Way more games where they are home vs. in a hotel on the road. This is huge for a new family plus if you hate flying , the less you do that , the better.

3. Close enough to what they consider “home” but maybe not too close. Gives them breathing room for family but yet close enough to plan and make quick trips to visit and help out.

4. Devils habe the cap room ready to go and won’t have to alter their roster to fit him in. Philly would have to get rid of salary to make it work. JVR or very good players like Provorov Seinheim might have to be traded . Philly already has depth issues and not very good prospects coming up and NJ appears to have a better future and promising players. Playing with Hughes or Nico plus old buddy Hamilton would be very appealing .

Only things Phlly has over us is that Hayes is a good friend of his and Johhny grew up a Philly fan I believe.That could be the difference maker but as a grown adult with a new family…. I hope he chooses NJ for the reasons I listed above.

I habe zero clue about the NJ area around where most Devils players live versus the area around Philly where he grew up .
Does one significantly better to live at over the other? Does one have better neighborhoods/ schools / things that are attractive to new families ?

I just think that we have a very good chance to sign him .
With how Fitz last off-season preached family or a brotherhood type atmosphere and building the culture the correct way , makimg promo videos on the area and what it’s like to be a Devils…. I can see that playing a factor in bringing in players……

 

[Eggtimer]

Just for fun, I took a look at what I think would happen if the Devils picked #8. This would be the most probably scenario:

1 MTL Slafkovsky
2 DET Wright
3 ARI Cooley
4 SEA Nemec
5 PHI Gauthier or Jiricek
6 CLB Gauthier or Jiricek
7 OTT ???
8 NJ ???

So, with the Ottawa pick -- well, we know a few things, since they are the easiest team to find an MO for at the draft. They don't draft under 6'0 players and they don't draft Eastern Euro players, especially early on. So we can cross off the smaller scorers -- Savoie, Kemell and Nazar -- and we can cross off the Russians -- Yurov and Miroshnichenko.

I think the front runner here would be Conor Geekie, a 6'4 and extremely skilled Western Canadian center with problems in his compete level and consistency. He's not the best pick here, but we're talking an Ottawa team who used a #10 overall pick last year on Tyler Boucher, who likely goes 3rd Round in a 2021 re-draft.

Ultimately, I'll go with my first instinct:

7 OTT Geekie
8 NJ ???

I'm going to say the front runner here would be Kasper. He's a good-sized center with borderline elite skating, high-end two-way play and extreme physicality but some perceived limitation in his offensive game -- which I often don't entirely disagree with, personally. He'd be the perfect 3C for the Devils down the road behind Hughes/Hischier. Coincidentally, if Detroit were picking #8, Kasper is also the guy I would mock to them at that spot.

Havimg our 1st rounder with the hope of him being a 3C is … underwhelming to me. I knkw on other teams he would / coild be a 2c due to us having Hughes / Nico already but still…… I want the first line potential player instead of the trade .
I also worry about why Yzerman is shopping Bertuzzi around l Maybe not “shopping “ per say , but it has been rumoured for awhile now. Why would the (very good ) GM of a rebuilding team trade away a piece like Bertuzzi? Something is going on behind the scenes with him . The player rubs me the wrong way. Nothing to do with vaccination shit , but rather Wimg fans have their issue with him and are fine moving him.
I pass on Bertuzzi and moving down with him as the main piece for doing so.
If I was Fitz , I stay away from trading with Stevie Y.