Crosby 20 straight ppg+ vs Howe 20 straight top 5 in pts?

[BigBadBruins7708]

More players in Crosby's era.

More players, not more elite players. Just a lot more roster fillers, makes it easier to score.

Consider that for the 2nd half of his run, 4 out of 5 teams he played had a HOF'er in net. Worsley in NY, Bower in TOR, Hall in CHI, Plante in MTL, and 2 of those just happen to be in the conversation for Top 5 goalie ever (Plante and Hall)

 

[Plastic Joseph]

IMO you need to be 82 pts or at least as many pts as games that your team played to be officially ppg.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

24 year old peak crosby scores 37 points in 22 games. Proceeds to spend the next 13 years above ppg. Yeah ill take the bet that he would be just fine the remaining 60 games.

Yea but the fact is he didn't. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

I agree he definitely would have, but he didn't.

82 pts is "ppg". If you play a fraction of the season it's not the same.

Obviously in shortened seasons it's the amount of games your team played.

 

[authentic]

IMO you need to be 82 pts or at least as many pts as games that your team played to be officially ppg.

Whether it’s official or not by any random posters criteria, the fact remains no one else has done this 20 seasons in a row, partial seasons or not, and he sustained this over one of the lowest scoring periods in NHL history and remains one of the most elite 37 year old producers and doesn’t appear to be slowing down anytime soon.

 

[IcedCapp]

"Howe played in a 6 team league"

*kid who is in every Crosby thread spouting anti-Crosby sentiments creating spreadshits and discussing everything but the fact that Howe played in a 6-team league*

Also, multiple people in the brain cell timeshare said something to the effect of, 'ppg is easy, so many people do it.'

Hey, I don't think you quite grasp what the thread topic is about. Maybe ask your parents for permission before sneaking onto the computer and getting involved in discussions about your head.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Whether it’s official or not by any random posters criteria, the fact remains no one else has done this 20 seasons in a row, partial seasons or not, and he sustained this over one of the lowest scoring periods in NHL history and remains one of the most elite 37 year old producers and doesn’t appear to be slowing down anytime soon.

*some random posters critiera*

I would say the opposite about considering less than 35 pts a ppg season

 

[authentic]

*some random posters critiera*

I would say the opposite about considering less than 35 pts a ppg season

Crosby never scored less than 35 points in a single season. The point though is even considering injuries and missed games no other player has done it. Gretzky being the only other player to come close is atleast noteworthy.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Crosby never scored less than 35 points in a single season.

37, my bad.

For the record I think it is an amazing accomplishment.

I just don't consider anything less than the amount games your team plays as a "point per game season"

 

[authentic]

37, my bad.

For the record I think it is an amazing accomplishment.

I just don't consider anything less than the amount games your team plays as a "point per game season"

But what about games players play that they didn’t score a point in? Technically every single season ever would not be a point per game season also

 

[Plastic Joseph]

But what about games players play that they didn’t score a point in? Technically every single season ever would not be a point per game season also

No I mean

Your team played 82 games? 82 pts would be a ppg season.

Your team played 56 games ? 56 pts

Etc.

I think you understood, but just to clarify

 

[authentic]

No I mean

Your team played 82 games? 82 pts would be a ppg season.

Your team played 56 games ? 56 pts

Etc.

I think you understood, but just to clarify

I just see the significance of it based on player performance in the games they played. No one scores 82 points missing half the season or more so it seems dismissive to view it this way.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

I just see the significance of it based on player performance in the games they played. No one scores 82 points missing half the season or more so it seems dismissive to view it this way.

Well you have to play games. Missing games is not a good thing.

It is unfortunate and often bad luck, nothing to blame on the individual. But playing games is important. If you want to be ppg for a whole season you need to play games.

 

[wetcoast]

37, my bad.

For the record I think it is an amazing accomplishment.

I just don't consider anything less than the amount games your team plays as a "point per game season"

Then all you are doing is announcing to the world that you don't understand what the metric actually measures.

This isn't hard stuff and most people learn this type of division in grade school.

If the points are more than the games.......

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Then all you are doing is announcing to the world that you don't understand what the metric actually measures.

This isn't hard stuff and most people learn this type of division in grade school.

If the points are more than the games.......

Points per game for that season.

If the pens play 82games , if a player wants to be ppg for that season they need 82 points. Pretty simple.

Was crosby personally scoring over a ppg in the games he played? Yes. Was he a point per game for the SEASON? No

 

[wetcoast]

Points per game for that season.

If the pens play 82games , if a player wants to be ppg for that season they need 82 points. Pretty simple.

Was crosby personally scoring over a ppg in the games he played? Yes. Was he a point pee game for the SEASON? No

Thank you for making my point yet again.

PPG is simply one of many metrics, the fact that you are deliberately trying to malign it for what reason....?

Even if one wanted to play your game, and that's what it is, any reasonable person taking the facts of Crosby's scoring would be hard pressed to find any season where he would not have scored 82 points had he actually been healthy enough to have played in all 82 games right?

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Thank you for making my point yet again.

PPG is simply one of many metrics, the fact that you are deliberately trying to malign it for what reason....?

Even if one wanted to play your game, and that's what it is, any reasonable person taking the facts of Crosby's scoring would be hard pressed to find any season where he would not have scored 82 points had he actually been healthy enough to have played in all 82 games right?

But....he wasn't healthy?

And point per game for a season means that season. There are 82 games in a season. If you want to go ppg for a full season then, score 82 points?

I am in no way trying to discredit crosby. I just dont think 37 pts can count as a ppg "season".

 

[RooBicks]

Howe pretty easy imo. Being a top 5 forward in the league for 20 years is unheard of. Even Gretzky didn’t do that.

I mean, isn't Crosby in the process of doing just that? He's certainly there this season, was there last as well... Unless you're actually talking points and not overall. I can't think of any season in Crosby's career where I wouldn't take him top 5. This year, the list is short. McDavid, Mackinnon, Draisaitl, Kucherov... That's it for me.

 

[Dingo]

Really? Of course 20 straight years of top 5 in scoring is a better feat.
Maybe if somebody counts Sid's straight seasons top 10 in PPG, it will be more interesting, but there are like 35 full-season PPG+ players these days.

i think that pretty much nails it - top 5 vs top 35.

It could be argued that Howe's era was weaker/less developed/no money/Canadians only

However, no point in bringing Howe up in the first place to just do that.

Yes, Top 5 in points is more impressive.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Most "points per game on the schedule" seasons (regardless how many games the player actually played)

• 17x - Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe
• 15x - Sidney Crosby (potentially 16 after this season)
• 13x - Mark Messier, Marcel Dionne, Dale Hawercuk

Under this approach, for example, Lemieux doesn't get credit for 2001, but Jagr would still get credit for 2000 despite missing a quarter of the year. Even if we disregard seasons like 2008 and 2011, Crosby still ranks 3rd all-time. (And he did it in a lower-scoring era than everyone at the top of the list, except for Howe).

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Most "points per game on the schedule" seasons (regardless how many games the player actually played)

• 17x - Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe
• 15x - Sidney Crosby (potentially 16 after this season)
• 13x - Mark Messier, Marcel Dionne, Dale Hawercuk

Under this approach, for example, Lemieux doesn't get credit for 2001, but Jagr would still get credit for 2000 despite missing a quarter of the year. Even if we disregard seasons like 2008 and 2011, Crosby still ranks 3rd all-time. (And he did it in a lower-scoring era than everyone at the top of the list, except for Howe).

What is the record for consecutive for this?

 

[Video Nasty]

The problem that has always existed with Crosby fans is that they are very sensitive and they need to unearth and cling to what he did do to make up for the many things he didn’t do as an individual.

All of these are true:

1. Crosby’s streak is impressive.

2. Howe’s streak is impressive.

3. Howe’s streak is built around playing full seasons or close to it. Players usually need to do so to finish top 5 in scoring.

4. Crosby’s streak, in theory, can be maintained by a player playing in as little as one game.

5. Crosby’s streak is less impressive than Howe’s streak.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

What is the record for consecutive for this?

Most consecutive seasons with at least 1 point per game on the schedule

• 13 - Gretzky
• 11 - Howe, Esposito
• 9 - McDavid, Jagr, Mikita, Bossy, Dionne, Kurri
• 8 - MacKinnon, Federko, Robitaille, Sittler

Most consecutive seasons with more than 1 point per game on the schedule

• 13 - Gretzky
• 11 - Howe
• 9 - McDavid, Jagr, Esposito, Mikita, Bossy, Dionne, Kurri
• 8 - MacKinnon, Federko, Robitaille

The first list would include a player who scored 48 points in 2013 (regardless of how many games they personally appeared in). The second list would only include players with at least 49 points in 2013 (ie more than one point per game).

I'm not sure which list is "better", so I'm presenting both. There are only two differences. First, Phil Esposito drops from 11 to 9 seasons under the 2nd method. And Sittler falls off the second list entirely.

Crosby's longest streak (both methods) is 7 seasons.

 

[nowhereman]

As several Capitals and Oilers fans have pointed out, Crosby's streak is bogus. I mean, how could we possibly know if peak Crosby would have kept up his PPG during those injury-shortened seasons?

In all seriousness, both streaks require a little more context. Crosby obviously gets credit for his injury-shortened seasons, by definition of a PPG season, but, yes, they weren't full seasons and a player's ability to play at PPG or above is somewhat dependent on league-wide scoring rates (although Crosby played in a lower scoring period than Howe for most of his career). But Howe also played in a 6 team league composed almost entirely of Canadians. The game has expanded to the point where placing in the top 5 today would be much harder to do on a consistent level.

All that said, I'd give the slight edge to Howe, as there have been a couple seasons in the 2020s where Sid wasn't able to finish top 5 amongst Canadians (either from injury or just flatout missing the cutoff). But they are both very impressive and close, in my books.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Bad argument, when the 6 teams expanded a lot of the league was watered down and expansion teams were punching bags for good players for a good period of time. So that top 27 forwards comment is ridiculous.

This, one could argue that it’s harder to even play in a 6 team league in the first place, since there are way less roster spots.

 

[Golden_Jet]

(although Crosby played in a lower scoring period than Howe for most of his career).

Haven’t averaged them all up, but doesn’t look like that is true.

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