Crosby 20 straight ppg+ vs Howe 20 straight top 5 in pts?

[Regal]

By that logic, there are about 27 legit MVP candidates in the NHL right now.

Does that ring true?

Not quite though, because that assumes a top 5 finish makes someone a legit MVP candidate in the 06 era. But some of the finishes weren’t that close to the leaders. He didn’t receive any Hart votes in the ‘55 for instance where the Art Ross winner had 21% more points. In ‘61 he was beaten by the Art Ross winner by 32%. That said, it’s not uncommon for big leads over 5th place today either. Kucherov had a 31% lead over Pastrnak last year. I think there needs to be some context for the league, but I agree that 27 is way too big

 

[TheGuiminator]

Crosby doesn’t have 20 consecutive ppg seasons. Key word “seasons.” 22 games does not a season make.

If anything, Crosby playing only 22 games after nearly a year sidelined was an even bigger risk for him to go cold during that stretch and fall slighty below a point per game.

But of course, Crosby has always managed to recover from cold stretches. Just look at his slow starts in 09-10, 15-16, or 17-18, where he was below a point per game at the 25-30 game mark.

Had those seasons abruptly ended at that point, I bet you’d be the first to point out that it would’ve counted as a "below ppg season," wouldn't you?

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Crosby doesn’t have 20 consecutive ppg seasons. Key word “seasons.” 22 games does not a season make.

It must be exhausting making hating a player on a rival team your entire personality. He only played 22 games that season because your chickenshit team tried and succeeded in injuring him. Regardless you don't get to decide what the NHL considers valid.

What's your cutoff? Because if it's not full PPG over the entire schedule then Wayne Gretzky 'only' had 13 in a row. But that's not the cut-off and never was.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Howe pretty easy imo. Being a top 5 forward in the league for 20 years is unheard of. Even Gretzky didn’t do that.

But there was only 6 teams. You have to multiply top 5 by 5 which makes it top25 in today's standard.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I am a Penguins fan, but this is no contest. Obviously Howe has the superior longevity achievement.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Season vs season (Canadian players only)

Age (start of season)	Howe	Crosby
18	-	3
19	-	1
20	-	-
21	3	1
22	1	1
23	1	-
24	1	-
25	1	3
26	5	1
27	2	3
28	1	2
29	4	2
30	4	5
31	5	2
32	5	-
33	3	6
34	1	9
35	5	6
36	3	3
37	5	5th (active)
38	4
39	3
40	3
41	9

Age for age, Crosby was ahead in 6 seasons, Howe was ahead in 10, they tied in 3.

Howe is ahead, and he still has two more top 3 finishes to come. Highly unlikely Crosby is sniffing top 3 Canadian scorers in 2027-2028.

That actually makes it pretty close, and it's also not considering how many more Canadians played hockey during Crosby's career compared to when Howe played. I'm guessing there are hundreds of thousands of more registered players nowadays.

 

[blundluntman]

Finishing top 3 along with Hull, and Esposito (ahead of Mikita too) at the age of 40 leaves very little doubt about the legitimacy of that streak or his quality of play (even if against “inferior” competition at times). Variance happens year to year competition wise but you still have to show up and be elite for 2 decades.

 

[Vilica]

Based on G%/P% conversions between eras, here's how Gordie's points ranks translate from his era to the post-lockout era.

Year	Howe Pts Rank O6	Year	Howe Pts Rank Lockout
49-50	3	05-06	17
50-51	1	06-07	4
51-52	1	07-08	3
52-53	1	08-09	1
53-54	1	09-10	2
54-55	5	10-11	10
55-56	2	11-12	3
56-57	1	12-13	1
57-58	4	13-14	3
58-59	4	14-15	3
59-60	5	15-16	6
60-61	5	16-17	8
61-62	3	17-18	11
62-63	1	18-19	5
63-64	5	19-20	10
64-65	3	20-21	10
65-66	5	21-22	16
66-67	4	22-23	29
67-68	3	23-24	10
68-69	3	24-25	4

The point totals generally hold up, but you can see where there's a bit more fall off in the back half of Howe's career. Instead of his top 5 finishes maintaining top 5 finishes, they're more like top 10 finishes. It's still remarkably consistent production.

 

[PensPlz]

Howe was a big fish in a small pond.

Crosby is a big fish in the ocean.

And I imagine Crosby isn't stopping at 20 straight seasons. 22 or 23 isn't out of the question.

 

[CanadienShark]

I'm someone who often downplays Howe. To me, the only answer to this question is Howe. Eras aside, that's just absurd to be so great for so long.

 

[authentic]

I'm not sure if 20 years in top 5 against plumbers is a great feat

He was outscoring Maurice Richard and then Bobby Hull when he was like 40.

 

[authentic]

Howe was a big fish in a small pond.

Crosby is a big fish in the ocean.

And I imagine Crosby isn't stopping at 20 straight seasons. 22 or 23 isn't out of the question.

There were some pretty big fish there in the entire O6 era… He stood above the rest in peak, prime and longevity, regular season and playoffs.

 

[newfy]

Thats cause Gretzky didnt play in a 6 team league.... Finishing top 5 in a 6 team league means you were in the top 7% of forwards. Which would be the same as the top 27 forwards today.

Yeah except you take all the Canadians and Americans in the league and throw them on 6 teams now. The worst dmen youre playing are guys that are top 3 types on every team, youve got a line or two of Olympic quality guys on every single team. You didn't get to roll into Phoenix on a Tuesday night and put up a 5 piece in Howes time like you could in Crosbys

Its not just as simple as multiplying by the number of teams

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

More players in Crosby's era.

 

[NVious]

Both are great, can't argue with either choice.

 

[wetcoast]

Bad argument, when the 6 teams expanded a lot of the league was watered down and expansion teams were punching bags for good players for a good period of time. So that top 27 forwards comment is ridiculous.

Even more so since all players today come form the exact same talent streams as in the past....well not really.

I will say that it's not exact math but closer to 27th today than 5th, somewhere in the high teens most likely.

 

[wetcoast]

To add to that, here are (probably) the next four best forwards of the Original Six era:

• Maurice Richard - 9 years in the top 5 (max 4 consecutive)
• Jean Beliveau - 8 years in the top 5 (max 3 consecutive)
• Bobby Hull - 8 years in the top 5 (max 4 consecutive)
• Stan Mikita - 9 years in the top 5 (all 9 consecutive)

The closest competitor was less than halfway to Howe's accomplishment. I agree that it was easier to place in the top five in scoring in the Original Six era, but nobody else even came close.

How does the consecutive PPG+ (or PPG even as this thread is titled) group look?

I know the next guy is Gretzky (even in the PPG even race he is at 19 (for PPG+ Gretzky is at 15 seasons).

 

[Midnight Judges]

If anything, Crosby playing only 22 games after nearly a year sidelined was an even bigger risk for him to go cold during that stretch and fall slighty below a point per game.

But of course, Crosby has always managed to recover from cold stretches. Just look at his slow starts in 09-10, 15-16, or 17-18, where he was below a point per game at the 25-30 game mark.

Had those seasons abruptly ended at that point, I bet you’d be the first to point out that it would’ve counted as a "below ppg season," wouldn't you?

Whatever is accurate is what I would point out.

22 games is not a "season."

One reasonable standard would be 82 points (or 1 point for however many games that player's team had that season).

Another standard could be akin to MLB's batting title wherein 550 at-bats is required (which is roughly 90% of the at-bats a top player would have. So 90% of a season to qualify, or in the case of an 82 game season that would be 74 points.

But there is no reasonable way to pretend 22 games or 37 points counts as a PPG "season" when the player's team played 82 games. That's just pretending. Key word "season" for the Pens fans who will jump in, hurl insults, and then deliberately mischaracterize the perfectly reasonable point I'm making.

 

[TheLegend27]

Whatever is accurate is what I would point out.

22 games is not a "season."

One reasonable standard would be 82 points (or 1 point for however many games that player's team had that season).

Another standard could be akin to MLB's batting title wherein 550 at-bats is required (which is roughly 90% of the at-bats a top player would have. So 90% of a season to qualify, or in the case of an 82 game season that would be 74 points.

But there is no reasonable way to pretend 22 games or 37 points counts as a PPG "season" when the player's team played 82 games. That's just pretending. Key word "season" for the Pens fans who will jump in, hurl insults, and then deliberately mischaracterize the perfectly reasonable point I'm making.

What would you say is more impressive, Ovi 15 consecutive 30 goal seasons(tied most all time) or Crosby 20 consecutive PPG seasons(tied most all time)?.

 

[Midnight Judges]

What would you say is more impressive, Ovi 15 consecutive 30 goal seasons(tied most all time) or Crosby 20 consecutive PPG seasons(tied most all time)?.

.......

 

[Romang67]

Whatever is accurate is what I would point out.

22 games is not a "season."

One reasonable standard would be 82 points (or 1 point for however many games that player's team had that season).

Another standard could be akin to MLB's batting title wherein 550 at-bats is required (which is roughly 90% of the at-bats a top player would have. So 90% of a season to qualify, or in the case of an 82 game season that would be 74 points.

But there is no reasonable way to pretend 22 games or 37 points counts as a PPG "season" when the player's team played 82 games. That's just pretending. Key word "season" for the Pens fans who will jump in, hurl insults, and then deliberately mischaracterize the perfectly reasonable point I'm making.

No, a season is a league year. The specific league year you're talking about is 2011-12, in which Crosby was ppg+.

 

[Midnight Judges]

No, a season is a league year. The specific league year you're talking about is 2011-12, in which Crosby was ppg+.

Crosby was indeed over a PPG for a fraction of the games, but wasn't for a "season."

Key word "season."

As in, the Pittsburgh Penguins (Sidney Crosby's team) played 82 hockey games in the 2011-2012 season.

 

[Romang67]

Crosby was indeed over a PPG for a fraction of the games, but wasn't for a "season."

Key word "season."

As in, the Pittsburgh Penguins (Sidney Crosby's team) played 82 hockey games in the 2011-2012 season.

The term you're looking for is "full season." The word you keep using, "season" is synonymous to league year, and he was PPG+ in the 2011/12 season.

 

[Voight]

Took all of what three posts for someone to try and bring down Howe's accomplishment because he played in a 6 team league?

Never change HF.

 

[DearDiary]

Crosby doesn’t have 20 consecutive ppg seasons. Key word “seasons.” 22 games does not a season make.

22 goals in 30 games
23 goals in 25 games

Is that 2 straight 20 goal seasons or is it invalid because I used the term seasons?