TSN: Craig Button update draft list...We got some jumpers

[Habs Halifax]

Helenius gives me Kotkaniemi vibes,,,,please steer clear lol

Not with me but I have Helenius ranked 8-13 range. His draft ranking has been pretty stable for most of the season though. KK went from late 1st to middle to 5-10 range near the draft. Not the same situation as Helenius.

Kotkaniemi was a hot trending player from his very good U18's performance. But man, we took a guy hoping he would improve skating and fill into his frame (reached big time). KK in the Liiga for his draft year was playing bottom 6. Where is Helenius playing? What kind of role? That I am not sure about.

 

[Garbageyuk]

He lost me when he called Fucale the ‘perfect goalie prospect’ and the best goalie prospect since Price. He has a penchant for taking these obtuse/strident positions that are invariably wrong.

Not invariably. Let’s be fair here. He’s wrong about these things more often than not, and I think this particular list is probably his craziest yet, but he’s been right before too.

He had Makar at 3rd overall on his list in 2017, which was higher than anyone else and wasn’t at all a popular take. He also had Caufield at 4th in 2019.

But yes, a lot of his takes are out there and don’t age well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wheeler and Pronman of the Athletic, who seem to have good connections with what teams, are suspecting Demidov might drop to 5.

Many think Saliyev may go top 4.

There's still a month for things to develop... And then we find out...

Demidov should go 2-4 range and I do think the Hawks are taking him. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to have Demidov and Bedard filling the seats while they focus on adding around them in the next 3-5 years.

One thing I will say about Demidov is he does shy away from the physical stuff along the boards. No doubt in my mind scouts will dig into that but that skating/skill/vision is too good to pass up for many scouts. Rightly so. He also likes to shoot right side of the net. There are things to notice when you play the nit pick with Demidov.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not invariably. Let’s be fair here. He’s wrong about these things more often than not, and I think this particular list is probably his craziest yet, but he’s been right before too.

He had Makar at 3rd overall on his list in 2017, which was higher than anyone else and wasn’t at all a popular take. He also had Caufield at 4th in 2019.

But yes, a lot of his takes are out there and don’t age well.

Most others are wrong too. Only one you can trust is Bob and even Bob is only around 75% accurate. Way too much lists out there. Too many pretenders trying to play scout.

What kind of value do you put into the consolidated ranking Elite Prospects does? I find it interesting but got to take it with a grain of salt at the same time.

 

[26Mats]

Demidov should go 2-4 range and I do think the Hawks are taking him. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to have Demidov and Bedard filling the seats while they focus on adding around them in the next 3-5 years.

One thing I will say about Demidov is he does shy away from the physical stuff along the boards. No doubt in my mind scouts will dig into that but that skating/skill/vision is too good to pass up for many scouts. Rightly so. He also likes to shoot right side of the net. There are things to notice when you play the nit pick with Demidov.

I don't try to say where I think Demidov will go or should go. I'm just observing what those who potentially have insider information are saying.

I'm really looking forward to draft day to see which player each team stake their futures on, and in particular who oour team does. In the meantime, checking in with the hearsay is all I can do.

 

[StCaufield]

I like Button as a commentator but his lists are always conspiracy level bad

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't try to say where I think Demidov will go or should go. I'm just observing what those who potentially have insider information are saying.

I'm really looking forward to draft day to see which player each team stake their futures on, and in particular who oour team does. In the meantime, checking in with the hearsay is all I can do.

The Insiders are guessing like we are. No team is going to leak their true intentions. But yeah, I do see the potential of Demidov slipping but not outside of the top 7. It's very possible several teams target those D though.

Yeah, it's going to be an interesting month and NHL combine will play a factor too.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I like Button as a commentator but his lists are always conspiracy level bad

He's getting worse even if he's a nice guy. He gets fixated on something and then yells about it the entire game, looking for even the smallest thread to yell about it again.

 

[StCaufield]

He's getting worse even if he's a nice guy. He gets fixated on something and then yells about it the entire game, looking for even the smallest thread to yell about it again.

I love it lol he’s like a cranky boomer

 

[Garbageyuk]

Most others are wrong too. Only one you can trust is Bob and even Bob is only around 75% accurate. Way too much lists out there. Too many pretenders trying to play scout.

What kind of value do you put into the consolidated ranking Elite Prospects does? I find it interesting but got to take it with a grain of salt at the same time.

I haven’t looked too much at Elite Prospects as I don’t use their site very much, unless I’m trying to look up e.g. MHL stats or something like that.

I think consolidated lists are good to give people who maybe haven’t watched as much an idea of how some teams may have guys ranked, but as we’ve seen, actual team lists can still vary quite radically from the consensus.

Personally, they don’t factor much into my own rankings, even though more often than not mine can be roughly similar.

As always, it’s best to watch the players in question as much as you can and form your own opinions, while keeping in mind that we don’t have the all the information that scouts for the teams do.

At the end of the day, this is all just for fun on here.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Most others are wrong too. Only one you can trust is Bob and even Bob is only around 75% accurate. Way too much lists out there. Too many pretenders trying to play scout.

What kind of value do you put into the consolidated ranking Elite Prospects does? I find it interesting but got to take it with a grain of salt at the same time.

Predicting actual order of picks is less interesting than ranking best players in the long term. They seem like two different things. Being accurate at predicting pick order doesnt necessarily tell us anything about which players will actually be the best ones, so not sure why this is given so much importance.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I like Button as a commentator but his lists are always conspiracy level bad

Button is not dumb. He knows he's going off the board in some areas. He just don't care about popular opinions.

Predicting actual order of picks is less interesting than ranking best players in the long term. They seem like two different things. Being accurate at predicting pick order doesnt necessarily tell us anything about which players will actually be the best ones, so not sure why this is given so much importance.

Well, you would think that when people make their list, they are going BPA on who they believe will be the better player. Personally, I don't build my draft boards like this. I prefer waives of talent

In terms of making list at who you think each team will pick? That's dumb. I'll let the young gullible generation fall into that trap.

 

[Kosseca]

In life, things can be informative/educational OR entertaining.

Greg's list is... entertainment only. Little to know intel there. So it's a slow news day??? enjoy the entertainment!!! lol

 

[Paddy17]

Craig's list is his ranking. Bob's is scouts ranking. Even if Craig's ranking is relatively close I don't see alll teams in the top 4 passing on d when defensemen are hard to get.

To his defense, it's his ranking and not his mock draft. If he has the same order in his mock, then there could be serious doubt on his thought process.

Also, agree with him or not, but he does put his own list and even if it differs from Bob's list and the actual real draft, the value can only be judged 5 years down the road. For every draft, the actual order will greatly change once you go through the exercise of a "redraft" a few years later.

In essence, we can agree or disagree with his opinion, but I would not pass broad judgements on his list just because it differs from the consensus or because we don't agree with player rankings. It is what it is. An opinion.

 

[Habs Halifax]

To his defense, it's his ranking and not his mock draft. If he has the same order in his mock, then there could be serious doubt on his thought process.

Also, agree with him or not, but he does put his own list and even if it differs from Bob's list and the actual real draft, the value can only be judged 5 years down the road. For every draft, the actual order will greatly change once you go through the exercise of a "redraft" a few years later.

In essence, we can agree or disagree with his opinion, but I would not pass broad judgements on his list just because it differs from the consensus or because we don't agree with player rankings. It is what it is. An opinion.

100% agree. We got to be careful with comparing his list to the popular ones when most of them are mostly wrong. Popular bandwagon herds seems to be a gullible trap today. More than before but social media and the internet has changes things.

Redrafts done 3-5 years latter usually makes a lot of list look bad. It's a very tough business evaluating prospects from age 15-18 and trying to track that forward from 18-20+. Most of the growth happens after the draft. This is why you see NHL teams work very hard to get to know several players and ask tough questions. They want to know how obsessive the player is at improving and how much character they have.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Draft threads are

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Not invariably. Let’s be fair here. He’s wrong about these things more often than not, and I think this particular list is probably his craziest yet, but he’s been right before too.

He had Makar at 3rd overall on his list in 2017, which was higher than anyone else and wasn’t at all a popular take. He also had Caufield at 4th in 2019.

But yes, a lot of his takes are out there and don’t age well.

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

 

[Habs]

the same guy who said we wouldn't beat the Leaf's one game in the playoffs and runs a 1987 Perm. Yeah, SUS

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

But how much research and viewing is it based on?

How good is he at projecting 17 and 18 year olds as NHLers?

Zero clue, the only instance where I felt he made a notably good call was not buying into the Virtanen hype. I was going nuts with all these top 10 projects for a guy who only knew how to play in a straight line.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

True, but he still isn’t “invariably” wrong.

 

[26Mats]

Zero clue, the only instance where I felt he made a notably good call was not buying into the Virtanen hype. I was going nuts with all these top 10 projects for a guy who only knew how to play in a straight line.

Many don't like snake Boivert. But I find when he discusses his lists retrospectively, it's interesting to hear him talk about what he got right and what he got wrong, and how he applies that line of thinking to the current draft class. And there's a lot he gets right compared to the actual draft order.

I just haven't done an analysis to compare his "batting average" to others.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

Holy smoke, Cayden Lindstrom the 6th forward selected? Plus I’m sure Artyom Levshuov will be the first D picked…..either way the draft will be fun.

 

[1909]

Demidov and Iggy are my prime targets. I'll be deflated if one of they are not on the board when we pick.

I think the Hawks are taking Demdiov. Demidov and Bedard put fans in the seats while they add around them in the next 3-5 years.

I can see the Ducks targeting a D.

Blue Jackets need centers but they need help everywhere. Would they take Tij? I don't believe so. I think they are going to take a D but would they take Helenius?

Especially if Bergevin is GM and Timmins, at his side.

 

[waffledave]

Many think Saliyev may go top 4.

Almost a sure bet - not many people will pass on a guy with that size and skating. He's a unicorn for dmen.

 

[26Mats]

Almost a sure bet - not many people will pass on a guy with that size and skating. He's a unicorn for dmen.

May help that Zadorov had a good playoff.