Confirmed with Link: Coyotes forfeit 2020 2nd round pick and a 2021 1st round pick for violating league’s combine testing

[BUX7PHX]

It’s a fairly weak argument. That being said it’s also a fairly obvious one. Has NHL ensured there was a Chinese wall in place? If no, then what measures have they taken to ensure this isn’t occurring. Do NHl teams have access to their minor league data? That’s an issue.

This is probably also why the league was staying out of the conversation.

Changes and updates to rules should be inevitable. Many rules that we consider are within the scope of the game, but this exposes a question of who has access to what data? I didn't necessarily think of the argument for individuals who have stakes in CHL teams. In a way, that would be very similar to the idea that Stathletes or some other party has the information and because of the relationship dynamic, an owner could get that information.

Bottom line:

1. Our strength coach is an idiot if he has been around this long and did what was done.

2. The statements still don't exonerate Chayka. This happened under his watch, and he should be aware of going over what is and is not appropriate, much the same way that every year or so, someone needs to audit language of rules to ensure no gray areas exist. But it does at least lend credence to the idea that this wasn't some sort of plotted scheme from the top.

3. I agree that if this affects 2020 draft eligibles, then what does taking away a 2021 puck do? A little frustrated by that.

4. Also a little surprised that many believed the punishment was not going to be as much as it wound up being from Meruelo and others inside of the organization. Kind of makes you wonder if not just presenting info on which NHL owners have stakes in lower companies - do any scouts have personal relationships with certain teams, and every now and again, a test is looked the other way? Not saying this always happens. But could the opposite case be made, that at some point, a physical test did not have the whistle blown on them?

Ultimately, the punishment is the punishment, but the reason why the NHL isn't talking is because they don't want to open up the can of worms that is who has relationships as minority owners and could that individual be getting data in that manner? If we are talking heights and weights here, then that's a pretty bold punishment, although it definitely demands no physical testing. But if a GM has a stake in an OHL team, and he gets sent a monthly report on player height and weight, there really isn't that much of a difference between the two, in terms of data and its exchange.

Glad at least some information was made public.

 

[TheLegend]

Two things I took away from it....

1) The Coyotes (as in Chayka) were too cavalier in how they operated their scouting department.

2) The Coyotes also pointed out that the system in place for testing draftees is almost as cavalier and the league needs to address it to have any credibility.

 

[azcanuck]

Just more bad news for this organization. Considering Hall is gone and now you have two drafts without any top picks. This is very hurtful. How do you improve this soft small team?

 

[Mosby]

The same players bitching about per diem timeliness also got a $40,000 cheque.

 

[Canis Latrans]

The same players bitching about per diem timeliness also got a $40,000 cheque.

I thought they were secured in the bubble and meals were all being handled directly through the hotel restaurant or another restaurant or two wholly contained within the bubble. I don't understand why you would need a per diem if the league had already essentially paid companies to enclose itself for the duration of the playoffs. I would assume they'd just have paid the restaurants a lump sum and treated it like the players were at an all-inclusive resort.

 

[rt]

I thought they were secured in the bubble and meals were all being handled directly through the hotel restaurant or another restaurant or two wholly contained within the bubble. I don't understand why you would need a per diem if the league had already essentially paid companies to enclose itself for the duration of the playoffs. I would assume they'd just have paid the restaurants a lump sum and treated it like the players were at an all-inclusive resort.

It’s in their contracts. It doesn’t make sense, but it’s there.

 

[Name Nameless]

The same players bitching about per diem timeliness also got a $40,000 cheque.

No explanation of what a "black ace" is. Per the twitter-thread, they think it is players who didn't get to play. No explanation of if it was "at all", or if it was some kind of game minimum. Anyway. Generally, that should be the lowest paid players. So, they locked up for a month, and got $2500 for it, if the dudes who were allowed to play, got booted out after the qualifying round?

What a bad deal.

 

[87turbobuick]

A Black ace is on the non active roster but practices in case of need during the playoffs.

 

[Jamieh]

No explanation of what a "black ace" is. Per the twitter-thread, they think it is players who didn't get to play. No explanation of if it was "at all", or if it was some kind of game minimum. Anyway. Generally, that should be the lowest paid players. So, they locked up for a month, and got $2500 for it, if the dudes who were allowed to play, got booted out after the qualifying round?

What a bad deal.

Black Aces are around for evety playoffs, generally guys from Jr or the Minors who have little chance of playing but practice everyday.

From an article on the subject, here are a few expected to be Black Aces for AZ although some saw game action:

"The additional space allowed the Coyotes to bring players such as forwards Barrett Hayton, Brayden Burke, Hudson Fasching, defensemen Victor Soderstrom, Kyle Capobianco, Jordan Gross, and goaltender Adin Hill, among others."

 

[XX]

I thought they were secured in the bubble and meals were all being handled directly through the hotel restaurant or another restaurant or two wholly contained within the bubble. I don't understand why you would need a per diem if the league had already essentially paid companies to enclose itself for the duration of the playoffs. I would assume they'd just have paid the restaurants a lump sum and treated it like the players were at an all-inclusive resort.

It's largely tax free petty cash for the players. For the amount of time they are going to potentially spend in the bubble, it adds up to a decent chunk of change. And a lot of guys live aggressively small - they save a lot of their net paycheck for when they're done playing.

The New Avery Rule is based on two simple words: per diem. It’s the spending money the team gives you, and it’s about as free as money gets for a professional athlete. When I was in the NHL, we received $96 a day in per diem money during training camp (that’s 30 days, or $2,880) and for each day we were away for road games. The NHL schedule has 41 road games per team, and if you play out west, the travel schedule is brutal, so you could easily rack up 100 per diem days a season, plus training camp. That’s $12,480. All tax-free.

However, any player, no matter the salary, can think of per diem money as a savings plan to ensure he has a chunk of untaxed money at the end of his career. Now, you might assume the per diem is supposed to be used by the player to live while on the road to buy meals, go out to the movies, and so on. That’s its express purpose. But it’s also the very loophole The New Avery Rule skates through.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/the-new-avery-rule

If it's money owed in a contract, you pay it in a timely matter. It's not a good look to miss a detail like they did.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Maybe it was the Black Aces complaining about the per diem? "we're stuck up here for weeks, nothing to do but sit around and occasionally practice..."

 

[87turbobuick]

Maybe it was the Black Aces complaining about the per diem? "we're stuck up here for weeks, nothing to do but sit around and occasionally practice..."

Some of the teams played golf at Blackhawk where some of my family plays, they had to shell out for the privilege. Might have needed cash for the gambling.

 

[Canis Latrans]

It's largely tax free petty cash for the players. For the amount of time they are going to potentially spend in the bubble, it adds up to a decent chunk of change. And a lot of guys live aggressively small - they save a lot of their net paycheck for when they're done playing.





https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/the-new-avery-rule

If it's money owed in a contract, you pay it in a timely matter. It's not a good look to miss a detail like they did.

Ok, right, it's contracted out and is owed to them regardless of the games being played in the bubble or not, but it's still a little odd to complain about not getting your pre-loaded debit card, or however they do it, when they are trapped in the bubble without anywhere to spend that money. I don't even know if they could order something online and have it shipped to the bubble. The whole situation is just a little mind-boggling is all.

 

[87turbobuick]

Ok, right, it's contracted out and is owed to them regardless of the games being played in the bubble or not, but it's still a little odd to complain about not getting your pre-loaded debit card, or however they do it, when they are trapped in the bubble without anywhere to spend that money. I don't even know if they could order something online and have it shipped to the bubble. The whole situation is just a little mind-boggling is all.

A few years ago it was cash, not sure now. Maybe the casino money is running dry?

 

[RABBIT]

I’m willing to give a pass on the whole per diem thing. Our ownership is brand new to sports and has had a ton of turbulence and distraction after their GM abandoned the team right before playoffs. I’m sure they corrected the mistake as soon as it was brought to their attention. I highly doubt they were holding out on their players.

 

[hbk]

I’m willing to give a pass on the whole per diem thing. Our ownership is brand new to sports and has had a ton of turbulence and distraction after their GM abandoned the team right before playoffs. I’m sure they corrected the mistake as soon as it was brought to their attention. I highly doubt they were holding out on their players.

Don’t we have people whose sole job is to make sure this stuff doesn’t happen?

 

[RABBIT]

Don’t we have people whose sole job is to make sure this stuff doesn’t happen?

not sure to be honest, I just figured it’s falling on the shoulders of the ownership and that’s why I felt they deserved a pass. If someone is designated to this job and they didn’t, well they made their own bed.

 

[hbk]

not sure to be honest, I just figured it’s falling on the shoulders of the ownership and that’s why I felt they deserved a pass. If someone is designated to this job and they didn’t, well they made their own bed.

Someone hands each player an envelope of cash when they get on the plane. The players then gamble their asses off.

now we likely not gave enough cash for the play-in and someone forgot to top the players off once the playoffs started.

 

[Jakey53]

Someone hands each player an envelope of cash when they get on the plane. The players then gamble their asses off.

now we likely not gave enough cash for the play-in and someone forgot to top the players off once the playoffs started.

Where do the players "gamble their asses off" in Edmonton, in a bubble? Or are you being sarcastic?

 

[hbk]

Where do the players "gamble their asses off" in Edmonton, in a bubble? Or are you being sarcastic?

Playing cards. Golf. Ping pong. If there is a bubble hockey game there then u can bet there is cash on the line. Don’t u listen to any player podcast? The card games are legendary!

 

[Jakey53]

Playing cards. Golf. Ping pong. If there is a bubble hockey game there then u can bet there is cash on the line. Don’t u listen to any player podcast? The card games are legendary!

Don't listen to any players podcasts. Maybe I should.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Playing cards. Golf. Ping pong. If there is a bubble hockey game there then u can bet there is cash on the line. Don’t u listen to any player podcast? The card games are legendary!

ALL sports have some serious gambling going on amongst players.

Think about it - hyper competitive individuals with some disposable cash makes for some poker games and whatnot. In fact, it would not surprise me if a good amount of discontent in locker rooms between players is a result of these types of things.

EDIT: I think Tom Coughlin (former NFL coach and GM) had a rule with his players - no gambling with each other. This was for three reasons:

#1 It creates competition between teammates that should be focused on other teams

#2 Scenarios play out where people owe money or are apathetic to owing money

#3 If anyone cheats or does anything like that in these games, you can't trust people who are supposed to be your teammates.

 

[RABBIT]

Don't listen to any players podcasts. Maybe I should.

I think you would like Spittin Chiclets (not to get off topic)

 

[rt]

I think you would like Spittin Chiclets (not to get off topic)

I'd maybe recommend Jake start with the Pete Vandermeer interview from a few months ago. It was a good one and also nice and old school for our boy Jake! That was ep.271. I thought the Brian Burke episode (261) would be good for Jake. For Arizona content there was Shane Doan back in 2018 (ep123).

 

[RABBIT]

I'd maybe recommend Jake start with the Pete Vandermeer interview from a few months ago. It was a good one and also nice and old school for our boy Jake! That was ep.271. I thought the Brian Burke episode (261) would be good for Jake. For Arizona content there was Shane Doan back in 2018 (ep123).

Adrian Aucoin as well for the best Vern Fiddler/Dave Tippett story ever. Sorry I’m done just had to throw that one in there!