Confirmed with Link: Coyotes forfeit 2020 2nd round pick and a 2021 1st round pick for violating league’s combine testing

[Jamieh]

Dumb question. Why didn’t league just say you can’t use your picks. None of them. You either forfeit them or deal them.

By dealing them you aren't really getting punished.

 

[hbk]

By dealing them you aren't really getting punished.

I get that perspective.

Here’s my issue with the 1st and 2nd. We all do lists here. I’m comfortable that with little effort I can do fairly good with a first rounder. Hell during the Gretzky years I know my list was better than AZ.

the goal of the cheating is to gain better knowledge on the mid to late round guys. Tell me I’m crazy but we keep that knowledge and those picks where we would still actually benefit from the cheating.

If anything those are the picks that should have been stripped. I think it’s laughable that we still retained those.

maybe the force trade is a bit much but the punishment should have been we lost all the picks for the draft that was affected. And a ban on AZ from being able to acquire picks in that draft.
I think that would have made more sense.

 

[Jamieh]

I get that perspective.

Here’s my issue with the 1st and 2nd. We all do lists here. I’m comfortable that with little effort I can do fairly good with a first rounder. Hell during the Gretzky years I know my list was better than AZ.

the goal of the cheating is to gain better knowledge on the mid to late round guys. Tell me I’m crazy but we keep that knowledge and those picks where we would still actually benefit from the cheating.

If anything those are the picks that should have been stripped. I think it’s laughable that we still retained those.

maybe the force trade is a bit much but the punishment should have been we lost all the picks for the draft that was affected. And a ban on AZ from being able to acquire picks in that draft.
I think that would have made more sense.

The League is still penalizing the Coyotes where success "should" be more automatic and leaving them with some future in the hail mary section of the draft.

 

[moosemeister]

According to Craig Rick Tocchet is helping look for a GM.

f***

 

[rt]

I get that perspective.

Here’s my issue with the 1st and 2nd. We all do lists here. I’m comfortable that with little effort I can do fairly good with a first rounder. Hell during the Gretzky years I know my list was better than AZ.

the goal of the cheating is to gain better knowledge on the mid to late round guys. Tell me I’m crazy but we keep that knowledge and those picks where we would still actually benefit from the cheating.

If anything those are the picks that should have been stripped. I think it’s laughable that we still retained those.

maybe the force trade is a bit much but the punishment should have been we lost all the picks for the draft that was affected. And a ban on AZ from being able to acquire picks in that draft.
I think that would have made more sense.

Yeah, as much as it appeals to my bias, I actually think stripping the Coyotes of ALL 2020 picks makes a ton of sense, versus taking ANY from 2021. Obviously, as a fan I don[t want to lose a 1st rounder, and that's swaying me a bit. But I think the logic here is sound. I think that makes more sense. And if it's not a sever enough penalty, perhaps a fine, too.

More fitting I think would be forfeiture of all 2019 picks and a 1-2 season suspension from the NHL of all of Chayka, Sullivan, Hofford, and Golberg that could be implicated. Then since the team already traded their 1st and 3rd, perhaps fine them a million bucks for the 1st and 250 kay for the 3rd, or something along those lines.

Then the punishment actually makes sense. The effected draft is completely forfeited and the guilty parties themselves are punished, rather than the owners and fans who had no say in this.

We fans are the ones getting f***ed. And that's bullshit. And if Steve Sullivan had anything to do with it, I hope he gets fired and can't get another job in management anywhere in the NHL. Seriously, f*** anyone who made the decisions that led to this happening to all of us fans.

 

[rt]

According to Craig Rick Tocchet is helping look for a GM.

f***

Yeah, I can hear him in the interview now:

"We uhhh really don't wanna uhhhh yah know uhhh sh-sh-shake things up too much ya know. This team has had like uhhh too ma-ma-many uhhh changes already yah know. We need uhhh some uhhh co-co-continuity yah know. I mean sometimes too much ch-ch-change is uhhh bad yah know. Look we are really uhhh proud of uhhh this gr-gr-group and uhhh all that our uhhh guys have ac-ac-accomplished yah know. I mean uhhh look at uhhh where this group was uhhh like uhhh like th-th-three years ago ya know. There's been a lotta uhhh gr-gr-growth yah know. And we're uhhh pr-pr-proud of that. We don't uhhh wanna take uhhh st-st-step back yah know?"

*John Chayka listening through a wire tap in the GM's office saying to himself, "God damn! This guy is SUCH a f***ing GOOD communicator, man! I'm really going to miss having this BRILLIANT communicator around!"*

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I think the reason why it is being left alone and details aren't being put out is because its most likely your team got off with a "light" punishment. If anything its normal to take away picks AND get a huge fine but all you guys got was draft picks taken away. I think the NHL is doing your owner a favor by not leaking out the details just my opinion though.

EDIT

For example in the NFL New England took a 1.1m dollar fine and lost a 3rd for cheating. You guys just lost the draft picks but no fine was given.

This doesn’t really apply. The other owners would be the ones upset by lighter punishment and they are no doubt privy to just what actually went on.

 

[Jamieh]

This doesn’t really apply. The other owners would be the ones upset by lighter punishment and they are no doubt privy to just what actually went on.

They also paid for the Coyotes for years so might not be interested in piling on financially.

 

[BUX7PHX]

So you think you're entitled to knowing if they made guys lift weights or run a 40 yard dash? C'mon, man. Seriously. They admitted to "physical fitness testing". What do you need to know beyond that? This is getting funnier with each post. I'm not a season ticket holder but I buy plenty of tickets; however, I don't think that entitles me to know what Garland had for lunch or when Keller takes a shit.

If the act of Garland having lunch or Keller shitting had an effect on what picks we lose, or how much we get fined, then absolutely.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

So you think you're entitled to knowing if they made guys lift weights or run a 40 yard dash? C'mon, man. Seriously. They admitted to "physical fitness testing". What do you need to know beyond that? This is getting funnier with each post. I'm not a season ticket holder but I buy plenty of tickets; however, I don't think that entitles me to know what Garland had for lunch or when Keller takes a shit.

Not sure what tree you fell out of to get here, or why you care, but I do care that a team I’ve Financially supported for decades May have been extremely unethical. I do not care when anyone takes a shit, although I would be interested if they dropped it on your head.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Exactly. This craziness has stopped being funny after the third or fourth post. Utterly ridiculous.

Check out the thread title Jakey and if the case is closed in your eyes, don’t come back.
Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

Not sure what tree you fell out of to get here, or why you care, but I do care that a team I’ve Financially supported for decades May have been extremely unethical. I do not care when anyone takes a shit, although I would be interested if they dropped it on your head.

Breaking any rules is unethical. Your team admitted to physically fitness testing players. Other teams didn't. The fact there's 31 teams and only one team did it could be viewed as extremely unethical. Detailing what those tests were does the league no good because:

It opens up a whole can of worms for the rest of the league, and creates a gray area in the future for a team's defense being "Well, we didn't do what the Coyotes did, so we didn't know it was wrong." By the league not saying shit about what they did, they're illustrating that ANY testing is subject to punishment from the NHL and that the NHL isn't screwing around or taking it lightly.

You can scream from the rooftops that you want to know and that's fine, but even if you somehow find out, it doesn't change a thing. Literally doesn't change the outcome, the punishment, nothing. So if you want to choose to NOT financially support your team anymore, you're left to do it based on the fact they cheated without knowing in which exact, finite way they did so. And you're going to hate to hear this, but the league and the team don't owe you shit. You don't have an ownership stake. The only people any private enterprise owes anything to is the ownership/shareholders. Cry to the organization all you want, but it's only going to upset you even more when your pleas fall on deaf ears.

 

[lanky]

According to Craig Rick Tocchet is helping look for a GM.

f***

Now let's watch as Tocchet adds the title Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations to his contact card.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Breaking any rules is unethical. Your team admitted to physically fitness testing players. Other teams didn't. The fact there's 31 teams and only one team did it could be viewed as extremely unethical. Detailing what those tests were does the league no good because:

It opens up a whole can of worms for the rest of the league, and creates a gray area in the future for a team's defense being "Well, we didn't do what the Coyotes did, so we didn't know it was wrong." By the league not saying shit about what they did, they're illustrating that ANY testing is subject to punishment from the NHL and that the NHL isn't screwing around or taking it lightly.

You can scream from the rooftops that you want to know and that's fine, but even if you somehow find out, it doesn't change a thing. Literally doesn't change the outcome, the punishment, nothing. So if you want to choose to NOT financially support your team anymore, you're left to do it based on the fact they cheated without knowing in which exact, finite way they did so. And you're going to hate to hear this, but the league and the team don't owe you shit. You don't have an ownership stake. The only people any private enterprise owes anything to is the ownership/shareholders. Cry to the organization all you want, but it's only going to upset you even more when your pleas fall on deaf ears.

You are correct that breaking any rules is illegal. You are correct that breaking rules is unethical. I don't think anyone is arguing that.

It is the vagueness of what the information is to determine what was done.

If the simple premise is that the NHL doesn't distinguish any difference between any testing, okay. Therefore, if you ask a player to step on a scale after a game, it is the same equivalent as if you kept them for an entire afternoon and put the player through a round of all combine tests. Is that overly complicated for the NHL to say as the reason?

If we had conducted testing to a degree that we did the latter, then I am on board with @rt - get rid of anyone and everyone who had any knowledge of this going on and prevent them from being affiliated with any NHL franchise for a good chunk of time.

 

[rt]

Now let's watch as Tocchet adds the title Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations to his contact card.

It's gonna happen. I can feel it.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

You are correct that breaking any rules is illegal. You are correct that breaking rules is unethical. I don't think anyone is arguing that.

It is the vagueness of what the information is to determine what was done.

If the simple premise is that the NHL doesn't distinguish any difference between any testing, okay. Therefore, if you ask a player to step on a scale after a game, it is the same equivalent as if you kept them for an entire afternoon and put the player through a round of all combine tests. Is that overly complicated for the NHL to say as the reason?

If we had conducted testing to a degree that we did the latter, then I am on board with @rt - get rid of anyone and everyone who had any knowledge of this going on and prevent them from being affiliated with any NHL franchise for a good chunk of time.

I’ll find out eventually Buxy, lips loosen after time and the info will get my way. This asshat acts like I’m asking the team directly.

 

[Jakey53]

Breaking any rules is unethical. Your team admitted to physically fitness testing players. Other teams didn't. The fact there's 31 teams and only one team did it could be viewed as extremely unethical. Detailing what those tests were does the league no good because:

It opens up a whole can of worms for the rest of the league, and creates a gray area in the future for a team's defense being "Well, we didn't do what the Coyotes did, so we didn't know it was wrong." By the league not saying shit about what they did, they're illustrating that ANY testing is subject to punishment from the NHL and that the NHL isn't screwing around or taking it lightly.

You can scream from the rooftops that you want to know and that's fine, but even if you somehow find out, it doesn't change a thing. Literally doesn't change the outcome, the punishment, nothing. So if you want to choose to NOT financially support your team anymore, you're left to do it based on the fact they cheated without knowing in which exact, finite way they did so. And you're going to hate to hear this, but the league and the team don't owe you shit. You don't have an ownership stake. The only people any private enterprise owes anything to is the ownership/shareholders. Cry to the organization all you want, but it's only going to upset you even more when your pleas fall on deaf ears.

Haven't the prospects and / or teams been told what they can and can't do? I can see one or two slipping thru the cracks, but over 20. I'm sure some of these prospects already have agents and we all know they are told what to say at their interviews.

 

[Jakey53]

Check out the thread title Jakey and if the case is closed in your eyes, don’t come back.
Seems pretty simple to me.

Well then, maybe open you eyes, because the case is closed. No use crying over spilled milk.

 

[AZviaNJ]

According to Craig Rick Tocchet is helping look for a GM.

f***

Hextall or Botterill incoming?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Well then, maybe open you eyes, because the case is closed. No use crying over spilled milk.

No tears buddy, just anger.

 

[Jakey53]

You are correct that breaking any rules is illegal. You are correct that breaking rules is unethical. I don't think anyone is arguing that.

It is the vagueness of what the information is to determine what was done.

If the simple premise is that the NHL doesn't distinguish any difference between any testing, okay. Therefore, if you ask a player to step on a scale after a game, it is the same equivalent as if you kept them for an entire afternoon and put the player through a round of all combine tests. Is that overly complicated for the NHL to say as the reason?

If we had conducted testing to a degree that we did the latter, then I am on board with @rt - get rid of anyone and everyone who had any knowledge of this going on and prevent them from being affiliated with any NHL franchise for a good chunk of time.

You can not prevent anyone from making a living. These guys broke franchise rules or guidelines, nothing more.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

No tears buddy, just anger.

Edit: it’s not spilled milk, it’s blatant stupidity from a franchise that seems hellbent on spiraling to oblivion. Perhaps you’re angry too and want to sweep it under the rug, to keep from giving your old ticker too much the workout?

 

[Bondurant]

Meruelo is not going to sell the team over something some small as this. Chayka did the NHL dirty not the other way around. Not sure how long you have followed hockey but we are not the first team to get punished and we will not be the last.

Not relevant to my point nor what I was agreeing with. Meruelo was a blessing to this team and the entire league. The franchise is already unstable, COVID-19 is going to wreck the finances of the league and then the league tells Meruelo "Sorry, we are hampering you even further for something that did not happen on your watch". The "crime" wasn't even something to get worked up over.

 

[Jakey53]

No tears buddy, just anger.

Anger brings out the worst in people. Sit back, put your feet up and have a cold beer. I think your problem may be listening to too many millennials.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Not relevant to my point nor what I was agreeing with. Meruelo was a blessing to this team and the entire league. The franchise is already unstable, COVID-19 is going to wreck the finances of the league and then the league tells Meruelo "Sorry, we are hampering you even further for something that did not happen on your watch". The "crime" wasn't even something to get worked up over.

I thought this took place early in his ownership.
Your post did conjure up an unorthodox conclusion in my feeble mind however, in the form of an NHL mandate that all players involved be terminated in lieu of dollars or draft picks.