Speculation: Coyotes 2021 Offseason Roster Discussion Thread #2

[Jakey53]

I hate the playing to lose mentality, coaches and GMs should always play to win. Tanking is a bad idea, it hasn't been proven that it works in the NHL anyway. I am against trading young assets or draft picks for vets to win now.
We should always keep our first and second round picks, we shouldn't trade them. The game is also getting younger and younger while the CBA way under pays ELCs, under pays RFAs, and over pays UFAs. We need to sign more ELCs, some RFAs and stay away from expensive UFAs. Only sign a UFA on a short term deal, 2 years max, less than $4 mill a year. Chayka killed us with the draft pick trades and penalties.

We have 2 over paid players with NTC/NMCs, OEL/Kessel. This is where the mistakes are made that kill your cap. We need to stay away from these types of deals, it kills our flexibility. An example would be when Chych gets to his UFA deal and wants an 8 year deal at $10 mill+ with an NMC, we should trade him, get some assets but avoid that type of contract. We have nothing but downside. I like Chych, not saying we should trade him at all now, just saying his next contract could be a trap.

If we trade younger good players, we should only do it where we have a surplus. Garland/Keller/Schmaltz come to mind, all similar smallish players. I would consider trading one of them if we can get a potential top 4D, maybe a first round pick, or larger winger that we don't have, some combination, change the mix.

Bottom line, lets take advantage of the CBA structure, sign ELC/RFA deals, less risk with more flexibility, and stay away from expensive UFAs/term/NTC contracts. The team has more upside and less downside with ELC/RFA deals and we take 90% of the risk in UFA/NMC/long term deals.

It's not as cut and dry as you state. Most teams have a contract or two where the players are over paid, and also one or two where players are under paid. Depending on where the team is would depend if you should go UFA for a player or two. A team like Colorado might want that extra player to get them over the top and might have to go the UFA route or trade a good young asset for a seasoned playoff vet, or even the Yotes this year have to go the UFA route to fill out our D group. It all starts with drafting and developing, then you sprinkle in trades, UFA signings etc. If we could be so lucky to land a player like a McDavid or McKinnon, I would be more than happy to give them a 8 year at 10 mill. a year. In fact I would love to have two players making 10 mill. a year.

 

[Jakey53]

Where is this parity you speak of?

Open your eyes.

 

[Jamieh]

Open your eyes.

What should I be looking for? You can come pretty close to picking the playoff teams in Oct every year, that's not exactly how parity works.

 

[Jakey53]

What should I be looking for? You can come pretty close to picking the playoff teams in Oct every year, that's not exactly how parity works.

This last year would be a bad example for various reasons, but before that you of course had one or two teams in each division a sure thing, but other teams were jocking for position to make the playoffs.

 

[Jamieh]

This last year would be a bad example for various reasons, but before that you of course had one or two teams in each division a sure thing, but other teams were jocking for position to make the playoffs.

Parity in sports means equal talent and chance to win. That hasn't been present in sport ever.

 

[Jakey53]

Parity in sports means equal talent and chance to win. That hasn't been present in sport ever.

NVM

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Yup, the Stepan/Raanta and Hall trades really set us back. Moreso the Hall one. Even having POJ and Domi would have given us more assets to either develop or trade.

We have a good base, if we had more in the pipeline we would be in a really good spot. Even just as trade ammo now that we have a decent core. Could've used our 2019 1st round pick to upgrade on one of our current players.

We have 4 young top 6 forwards and a top 10 23 year old dman. It's too bad we didn't have more than Soderstrom, Hayton, Jenik, Maccelli developing. Chayka put us in a place where we need Soderstrom to be an impact player and 2 of the forwards.

Talk about glass half full…. What we have are 4 second snd 3rd line forwards. I grant you that Chychrun is for real. Our third and fourth liners, at BEST, should be scattered across the league as the last guy to make their respective teams.

 

[Schemp]

It seems as though we haven’t even had a phone call with Quinn. I guess that means we aren’t serious at all about Eichel.

I'm still trying to figure out who Quinn is...
Reinhart and Ristolainen would be a good addition!
...if we only had the 11th pick.

 

[rt]

I'm still trying to figure out who Quinn is...
Reinhart and Ristolainen would be a good addition!
...if we only had the 11th pick.

David Quinn…

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Talk about glass half full…. What we have are 4 second snd 3rd line forwards. I grant you that Chychrun is for real. Our third and fourth liners, at BEST, should be scattered across the league as the last guy to make their respective teams.

You don't blow up a team to fix the bottom 6. We've already seen BA make improvements with Larsson, Pitlick and hopefully Jaskin. It's a work in progress. This off season and next I expect more improvements. We need secondary scoring from the bottom 6 as well.

And we have 1 1st liner in Garland. 2 2nd liners in Keller/Schmaltz. A 2C/high end 3C in Dvorak. And that's with Tocchet coaching them. I expect improvements from all with a new HC. Kessel is a top 6 player as well but old and doesn't fit our timeline.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

And we have 1 1st liner in Garland. 2 2nd liners in Keller/Schmaltz. A 2C/high end 3C in Dvorak. And that's with Tocchet coaching them. I expect improvements from all with a new HC. Kessel is a top 6 player as well but old and doesn't fit our timeline.

Uh, no. Garland isn’t sturdy enough to go against top line forwards day in and day out. He is a 2, as is Keller. Schmaltz hasn’t the consistency of a 2. IMO he’s a 3. Agree w Dvo. So, 2 second line forwards and a 3rd line center and forward.

We need a full 1st line, 2/3 of a second line and a 3rd line wing. Some core we have here.

Blow it up.

 

[Summer Rose]

Let’s say when his contract expires, Matthews is willing to sign here. How much are we willing to pay him?

 

[hbk]

Let’s say when his contract expires, Matthews is willing to sign here. How much are we willing to pay him?

As much as it takes. If that means max term and AAV. So be it. Will be richest contract in NHL history.

 

[Jamieh]

As much as it takes. If that means max term and AAV. So be it. Will be richest contract in NHL history.

That would be crippling.

 

[rt]

Let’s say when his contract expires, Matthews is willing to sign here. How much are we willing to pay him?

He’d be 26 when the first year of that contract starts and 32 when the seventh year expires.

He’s currently making 14% of the 81.5m cap. The cap is supposed to remain flat for the final two years of his current deal. Not sure how much it will jump after that. Let’s say it jumps 10% and is 90m that year. 7yrs (max), 105mil, 15aav would be 16.67% of the new cap ceiling. I feel like that’s not at all outlandish. It would bring his career earnings to around 166 million.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Uh, no. Garland isn’t sturdy enough to go against top line forwards day in and day out. He is a 2, as is Keller. Schmaltz hasn’t the consistency of a 2. IMO he’s a 3. Agree w Dvo. So, 2 second line forwards and a 3rd line center and forward.

We need a full 1st line, 2/3 of a second line and a 3rd line wing. Some core we have here.

Blow it up.

Schmaltz has consistently performed around a 50-55 point pace. That's 2nd line level. Name me another player with that production whose considered 3rd line.

Garland played at a 65 point pace. That's 1st line level. Now he does have a small sample size, but last season he was a 1st line player.

You seem to have unrealistic expectations of what players should be. Not every top line or top 6 player is 6'2, 220 lbs who play complete games.

All 4 of these players are also young, showed improvement even with a trash HC.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Let’s say when his contract expires, Matthews is willing to sign here. How much are we willing to pay him?

Give him a blank cheque. The extra revenue from his jersey sales and increased attendance will make up for it.

 

[RemoAZ]

Let’s say when his contract expires, Matthews is willing to sign here. How much are we willing to pay him?

 

[RemoAZ]

Schmaltz has consistently performed around a 50-55 point pace. That's 2nd line level. Name me another player with that production whose considered 3rd line.

Garland played at a 65 point pace. That's 1st line level. Now he does have a small sample size, but last season he was a 1st line player.

You seem to have unrealistic expectations of what players should be. Not every top line or top 6 player is 6'2, 220 lbs who play complete games.

All 4 of these players are also young, showed improvement even with a trash HC.

I think Garland is a 1st line player on a real team that will have his back. With our bunch of p***yes, he's on the IR if he plays too well.

 

[Mosby]

Friedman just said on HNIC that Coyotes are trying to move OEL.

Said the process is different this year. Instead of asking for list, they will try to make trade first and then go to OEL to waive.

Also said Seattle could be down to Tocchet, Sacco, and Granato. Yuck.

 

[hbk]

Anyone catch Friedman’s commentary on OEL being traded? Dog barked right through entire segment.

 

[hbk]

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Schmaltz has consistently performed around a 50-55 point pace. That's 2nd line level. Name me another player with that production whose considered 3rd line.

Garland played at a 65 point pace. That's 1st line level. Now he does have a small sample size, but last season he was a 1st line player.

You seem to have unrealistic expectations of what players should be. Not every top line or top 6 player is 6'2, 220 lbs who play complete games.

All 4 of these players are also young, showed improvement even with a trash HC.

I expect a complete game from a 1st line forward. It isn’t that Garland is 5’6”. It’s that he isn’t a 5’6” bull. He’s light. He gets manhandled. He will get pasted time and again going up against top players who outweigh him by 25 or 30 lbs.
I dunno about Schmaltz. Maybe you’re right. I’m not convinced that he plays well enough without the puck to be a second line wing or center.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Trying to find the exact audio of this. For anyone who heard, did it sound like somethings being worked out now or is this just the plan going forward?

 

[moosemeister]

Man, BA got rid of Stepan last season. If he manages to get rid of OEL this year, I’m gonna buy him an edible arrangement