COVID-19 Megathread II (Please limit all COVID discussion to this thread)

[Armourboy]

I still think it's you who would be surprised if those two docs actually went into a room with Dr. Voldemort. Docs are pretty good at telling you things you want to hear, as long as the consequences are not at all dire to do otherwise, anyway. Which is not to say there aren't also some mixed up doctors out there too... the internet shows there are...

I don't think this woman has ever told me what I want to hear lol. Besides she has been the one to bring it up, made the point to remind me that she has kids so she said it knowing they would get it and in return she would probably get it as well.

My Dad's Dr. I've been to before, that man has never given a crap about what you want to hear. I think he's reached the age where he doesn't care whether you like what you hear or not. His brother is my Vet, and he sure as heck doesn't mind letting you know your pets issues are your fault. That family is too blunt and to the point to worry about that kind of thing.

Edit: Also please keep in mind I'm not saying that Vold is necessarily wrong, and I'm definitely not saying he is a bad Doctor or a quack or anything even remotely close to that. My point is that even though he may be a Doctor that doesn't make his opinion the gold standard because there are other doctors who would disagree with him.

I think he's a nice guy, I just don't necessarily agree with him 100% on everything.

 

[triggrman]

Hmmm let’s get handtricks opinion

 

[Pred303]

Hmmm let’s get handtricks opinion

he's been in the opposite camp from voldy since day 1.

 

[PredsV82]

he's been in the opposite camp from voldy since day 1.

I'd be curious(seriously) to hear exactly what he disagrees with me about. Does he think COVID isnt highly contagious and significantly more deadly than other respiratory illnesses? Or just that the shutdown wasnt necessary?

Of course I have no way to argue just how much worse things would have been without the shutdown, since essentially every nation on earth shut down in some form or fashion. The UK tried to "let it ride" for a few weeks and the numbers were so bad and public outcry was so strong that Johnson reversed course in about 3 weeks.

So like anything else you'll not get 100% agreement on anything, but the whole world decided that a temporary shutdown was the way to go, and when have you ever seen pretty much every nation on earth agree to a particular plan/approach to something?

 

[PredsV82]

Also, in my defense, as I have mentioned before but its been quite a while, ENT docs were the ones who were dying of COVID early on, including the doctor in China who got word out to the rest of the world that this was coming. A lot of COVID patients only have loss of smell and taste as a symptom, and of course they went to ENTs who stuck a scope in their nose and unknowingly pulled out what have now become known as virus bombs. So for me it's more pressing an issue. I basically have to dress like Darth Vader in a HAZMAT suit to see a lot of my patients. Half my staff had to quarantine because a guy with a trach came to the office and the next day he showed up in the ER with COVID...

So I'm a little too close to this thing to be able to dismiss its severity.

 

[triggrman]

Also, in my defense, as I have mentioned before but its been quite a while, ENT docs were the ones who were dying of COVID early on, including the doctor in China who got word out to the rest of the world that this was coming. A lot of COVID patients only have loss of smell and taste as a symptom, and of course they went to ENTs who stuck a scope in their nose and unknowingly pulled out what have now become known as virus bombs. So for me it's more pressing an issue. I basically have to dress like Darth Vader in a HAZMAT suit to see a lot of my patients. Half my staff had to quarantine because a guy with a trach came to the office and the next day he showed up in the ER with COVID...

So I'm a little too close to this thing to be able to dismiss its severity.

See, so we're just on opposite ends of how it's affecting us personally. We just had to let go 250 employees nation wide because our call centers are still closed.

 

[MrJoshua]

Hey whoa what's with all of this sensible discussion? This is the Internet, dang it. You're supposed to be fighting and calling each other names and setting up arguments we can dismiss as straw-men and logical fallacies and whatnot, even (or especially) if they aren't.

 

[PredsV82]

See, so we're just on opposite ends of how it's affecting us personally. We just had to let go 250 employees nation wide because our call centers are still closed.

See this should have been something the PPP plan should have covered. But now everything is half assed. Still shut down enough that businesses arent self sustaining but no federal assistance available any more

 

[Adz]

Right. While it was definitely flawed in its implementation, the PPP made sense as a way to pay your employees for 2 months while business was slow or shut down because it was expected to improve--and many of the rules reflected that expectation. It made sense IF business had picked up or things had opened back up. But they're not. We do a lot of animation for conventions. Know what isn't being held? Conventions. So that's a huge chunk of money NOT coming in that we already know about. It hasn't made us have to let anyone go but we're not hiring anyone, either!

 

[Armourboy]

See this should have been something the PPP plan should have covered. But now everything is half assed. Still shut down enough that businesses arent self sustaining but no federal assistance available any more

Like always the Fed thinks short term, and with the election looming all any of them thought was throw money out. They didn't worry if it was thrown out correctly, or what repercussions it would have, just toss money out.

Now when they should be trying to hit a second round there are far too many trying to push crap in it they know they could never get through.

 

[Armourboy]

So apparently all of that spreading that Bars were causing in downtown Nashville was apparently completely fabricated. Internal emails have leaked out and have been verified by the mayor's office showing that through contract tracing there was only a max of 80 cases were due to bars. Apparently the bulk were from construction sites and nursing homes and those numbered in the thousands.

I saw it on the local fox news channel.

Also read an article about a study done by UCLA in conjunction with the University of Washington. It's not conclusive but it sounds like it's fairly possible that the virus was here as far back as December.

 

[triggrman]

COVID-19 emails from Nashville mayor's office show disturbing revelation



Also Nashville is using impossible to meet metrics to stay closed.
This is why I don’t like politics or politicians.

 

[101st_fan]

COVID-19 emails from Nashville mayor's office show disturbing revelation



Also Nashville is using impossible to meet metrics to stay closed.
This is why I don’t like politics or politicians.

It's why I kept referring back to the Constitution and what governments are truly permitted to do and what are individual responsibilities.

 

[Armourboy]

COVID-19 emails from Nashville mayor's office show disturbing revelation



Also Nashville is using impossible to meet metrics to stay closed.
This is why I don’t like politics or politicians.

Also heard this morning that they are digging into something that possibly ties into the reasoning and apparently if true certain people are going to have a hard time staying out of jail.

I just can't imagine trying to hide something like this. Stuff like this always gets leaked out one way or the other.

 

[triggrman]

Digging Out: Nashville hospital metric not usually reachable in normal times

Nashville's never had a hospital capacity issue the entire pandemic.

Covid hospitalizations as a total percent of total capicity, 2.38%

Nashville Hospital Capacity Tracker

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

So it sounds like everything we've been doing is working pretty well, then? Here, anyway.

 

[triggrman]

So it sounds like everything we've been doing is working pretty well, then? Here, anyway.

Sounds like we've been lied too.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Sounds like we've been lied too.

About what?

 

[triggrman]

About what?

Did you not read the articles?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Did you not read the articles?

Sure, but what are the lies? They did some political posturing, deplorable but universal, but what lies were ultimately told out of all that? Did somebody come out and say Nashville bars accounted for thousands of Covid cases? I might have missed that.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Sure, but what are the lies? They did some political posturing, deplorable but universal, but what lies were ultimately told out of all that? Did somebody come out and say Nashville bars accounted for thousands of Covid cases? I might have missed that.

it's pretty clear it went past posturing. businesses and lives have been destroyed. if you're going to single out a certain industry, i am actually fine with that. as long as the science and numbers support it. i was under the impression the science and most importantly the numbers supported the restrictions.

 

[Armourboy]

Sure, but what are the lies? They did some political posturing, deplorable but universal, but what lies were ultimately told out of all that? Did somebody come out and say Nashville bars accounted for thousands of Covid cases? I might have missed that.

Yes the mayor said that bars and restaurants should remain closed/limited because they were the major spreader of the virus. That's why in the email they were clarifying that they wanted to keep the actual number internal because the writer knew the numbers didn't match the public statement.

Also if I understand it correctly those heat maps they were putting out initially were based off of numbers that weren't real. Now we know one of the reasons why low income and minorities were seeing higher rates of infection around the city. They are the primary workers in construction and not once were any limitations put on them even though the actual numbers showed it was 1 of the top 2 drivers of spread in the city.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

it's pretty clear it went past posturing. businesses and lives have been destroyed. if you're going to single out a certain industry, i am actually fine with that. as long as the science and numbers support it. i was under the impression the science and most importantly the numbers supported the restrictions.

I don't know... lay out the timeline for me svp. There was a total shutdown until May-ish? Then things re-opened? And have since stayed open, with reduced capacity and social distancing limitations in place?

And bars logically represent potential spread points, and have in fact been conclusively proven to have been so in other jurisdictions?

So it really seems to me like all the approaches were justified. And - probably with a little luck on our side - have in fact proven to work nicely. So "yay". We won. (Other jurisdictions didn't).

Now, the politicians of course are going to fret over the optics of things based on their own little fiefdoms, and that's what I read in those emails. But the "optics" aren't what truly matters. They fretted about it based on faulty premises to begin with. They assumed that people are too dumb to just accept the bottom line truth that what they did worked, and that the real numbers are actually a sign of success. (Or luck - but let's say success).

Businesses and lives were going to be affected. It wasn't avoidable. You could have kept everything totally wide open and instead of 80 cases you got those thousands of cases and multiple fatalities. And then tell me about lives "destroyed". Truly destroyed. Not just set back financially.

 

[Armourboy]

I don't know... lay out the timeline for me svp. There was a total shutdown until May-ish? Then things re-opened? And have since stayed open, with reduced capacity and social distancing limitations in place?

And bars logically represent potential spread points, and have in fact been conclusively proven to have been so in other jurisdictions?

So it really seems to me like all the approaches were justified. And - probably with a little luck on our side - have in fact proven to work nicely. So "yay". We won. (Other jurisdictions didn't).

Now, the politicians of course are going to fret over the optics of things based on their own little fiefdoms, and that's what I read in those emails. But the "optics" aren't what truly matters. They fretted about it based on faulty premises to begin with. They assumed that people are too dumb to just accept the bottom line truth that what they did worked, and that the real numbers are actually a sign of success. (Or luck - but let's say success).

Businesses and lives were going to be affected. It wasn't avoidable. You could have kept everything totally wide open and instead of 80 cases you got those thousands of cases and multiple fatalities. And then tell me about lives "destroyed". Truly destroyed. Not just set back financially.

So then why weren't businesses that actually had high numbers of transmission restricted as well?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

So then why weren't businesses that actually had high numbers of transmission restricted as well?

Such as?