COVID-19 Megathread II (Please limit all COVID discussion to this thread)

[PredsV82]

Sure there are, but if you have a heart attack after that point, you were a ticking time bomb anyways. Normal healthy people aren't dying from Covid heart attacks.

Just because you have a preexisting condition that be what kills you some day doesnt mean that it cant be COVID that causes that preexisting condition to kill you now instead of later. Are you seriously going to tell me that someone with a bad heart who gets shot, loses blood, and dies because their bad heart gave out, should not be considered a gunshot death?

 

[Armourboy]

Just because you have a preexisting condition that be what kills you some day doesnt mean that it cant be COVID that causes that preexisting condition to kill you now instead of later. Are you seriously going to tell me that someone with a bad heart who gets shot, loses blood, and dies because their bad heart gave out, should not be considered a gunshot death?

There is a huge difference in those situations and you know it.

I mean you are basically saying that if I go out and run a car into a brick wall and die but I've tested positive for Covid then it's a Covid death.

 

[PredsV82]

There is a huge difference in those situations and you know it.

I mean you are basically saying that if I go out and run a car into a brick wall and die but I've tested positive for Covid then it's a Covid death.

That's not what I'm saying at all. COVID is a stressor that can cause someone with a preexisting condition to die(like the gunshot). Running into a wall isnt a preexisting condition.

The large number of asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic COVID patients has led people like you to make the false leap of logic that a lot of people who die with COVID in their system had asymptomatic COVID and coincidentally died of a preexisting medical condition when in fact that's not the case. Preexisting conditions dont just kill you for no reason. Something tips them over. COVID patients are known to have hypoxia(low oxygen levels) even with minimal.other symptoms. Someone who dies of a heart attack with COVID in their system probably died because the low oxygen level caused the heart attack.

 

[Armourboy]

That's not what I'm saying at all. COVID is a stressor that can cause someone with a preexisting condition to die(like the gunshot). Running into a wall isnt a preexisting condition.

The large number of asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic COVID patients has led people like you to make the false leap of logic that a lot of people who die with COVID in their system had asymptomatic COVID and coincidentally died of a preexisting medical condition when in fact that's not the case. Preexisting conditions dont just kill you for no reason. Something tips them over. COVID patients are known to have hypoxia(low oxygen levels) even with minimal.other symptoms. Someone who dies of a heart attack with COVID in their system probably died because the low oxygen level caused the heart attack.

Or they could have had another blockage. Sometimes the pre-existing condition may be exactly what caused you too die.

 

[Adz]

Well as long as we are whipping them out to measure, I got to skip 2nd grade.

As long as we're whipping, let me whip out mah girls. When I took the National Teacher's Exam back in 1980 I had the highest score ever recorded on the math portion of that test. Not just at UT. Everywhere it was given.
The night before the test I went to a disco (lame) with my boyfriend, left there and went to Hymie's bar (more my style), got pretty drunk, and closed them down at 3. Exam started at 7. I also did well on the other parts of the test but no "highest score ever". Ha ha!

 

[PredsV82]

Or they could have had another blockage. Sometimes the pre-existing condition may be exactly what caused you too die.

Two problems with your argument. First, without an autopsy, you wont know, and second, if you're whole point is to make the case that there are a lot less deaths attributable to COVID, it's on you to provide some proof other than "I say its theoretically possible in some cases". and as I said earlier, even if there are say 25000 such cases nationwide(and there arent...) the death toll remains staggering.


(And lastly, COVID causes blood clots which is exactly what a "blockage" is when you die from it)

 

[bdub24]

Should we start parsing flu deaths like this as well? We are well into the land of the absurd with this. Looking at outliers upon outliers and somehow thinking that makes the deaths more... what... acceptable I guess?

 

[triggrman]

Another CoVID causality, Demo’s closes its downtown Nashville location.

 

[PredsV82]

Another CoVID causality, Demo’s closes its downtown Nashville location.

Temporary or permanent?

Edit... I see its permanent

 

[triggrman]

So many of these family owned restaurants are closing. Dairy King closed last month after 60 years. Marche, Tokyo, Antonio, all COVID closed permanently. This sucks....

 

[PredsV82]

So many of these family owned restaurants are closing. Dairy King closed last month after 60 years. Marche, Tokyo, Antonio, all COVID closed permanently. This sucks....

This is what I mean when I talk about our botched response. Youd think all that most of these places would need is to have their rent/mortgage covered for a few months. If the government does that everyone benefits..

 

[triggrman]

So the family that owned DK are friends of mine. Here’s what they told me.

Their old building down the street had been paid for for 20 years. When the flood in 2010 came it forced the closure of that building to the location down the street. Between the new mortgage and equipment they were barely making enough to get by. Then 2020 hit. The opening and closing of restaurants the lack of caterings from business that are now working from home and the lack of school caterings was just too much and their bills were just growing.

 

[triggrman]

This is what I mean when I talk about our botched response. Youd think all that most of these places would need is to have their rent/mortgage covered for a few months. If the government does that everyone benefits..

I fully agree we botched the response.
Schools should be opened, people should be in buildings.
We went way beyond flattening the curve

 

[PredsV82]

I fully agree we botched the response.
Schools should be opened, people should be in buildings.
We went way beyond flattening the curve

I'll say again, if you didn't shut down hard, and early, and keep it shut down quite a while, the numbers would have spiraled and the shutdown would have happened anyway because people would have been scared to leave their house. What I'm saying is the shutdown was justified, and honestly could be justified being even harsher than it is now for several more months. But we as a society, led by our government, should have realized that if we have to do that, then everyone affected needs to be FULLY supported such that financial ruin doesnt happen. The government could have basically said "stay home, we will pay your employer who will keep paying you as if you are working". Then when it's time to get going again it's like no one ever left...

 

[NoNecksCurse]

I'll say again, if you didn't shut down hard, and early, and keep it shut down quite a while, the numbers would have spiraled and the shutdown would have happened anyway because people would have been scared to leave their house. What I'm saying is the shutdown was justified, and honestly could be justified being even harsher than it is now for several more months. But we as a society, led by our government, should have realized that if we have to do that, then everyone affected needs to be FULLY supported such that financial ruin doesnt happen. The government could have basically said "stay home, we will pay your employer who will keep paying you as if you are working". Then when it's time to get going again it's like no one ever left...

Might as well. 20+ trillion in debt

 

[Adz]

Might as well. 20+ trillion in debt

Yeah, would have been nice for the government to just say hey, take a 3-4 month staycation--we'll pay for everything you would have already been paying for...

Whoa, really? That's like a real summer break when I was 10!!!

BUT you have to stay home, everything has to be delivered to you, your choices will be limited, no social gatherings of any kind except with your own household, and you have to conduct your own religious services and take care of your own kids--yeah, sure, go ahead and teach them cursive and old math. You like sports huh? Might want to narrow your expectations of "entertainment".

Oh, now I remember why I wanted to grow up and not be 10 anymore.

 

[PredsV82]

Might as well. 20+ trillion in debt

At this point it's all Monopoly money anyway. Every country world wide shut down.

Money printer go BRRRRRR enough that there is an economy to come back to when this is over... these piddling half (or less) measures (like halting evictions but allowing arrears to continue to accrue) taken so far arent solving anything, just delaying the inevitable.

 

[drwpreds]

I'll say again, if you didn't shut down hard, and early, and keep it shut down quite a while, the numbers would have spiraled and the shutdown would have happened anyway because people would have been scared to leave their house. ...

You are honestly saying you think we should be shutdown even more than we already have been, and for several more months??

I am not sure i have ever disagreed with something more in all the years I have been on this board. There is absolutely zero evidence that shutdowns have any effect whatsoever. In fact, there is just as much data and evidence supporting just the opposite of what you are saying.

You cannot control a pandemic/virus. You can't hide from it. There is just as much evidence that shutting down actually PROLONGS a pandemic.

I still firmly believe years from now we are going to look back on our reaction to this as one of the biggest blunders in US history.

I said this before and i will say it again- our reaction from day 1 should have been to do whatever it took to protect the tiny fraction of our country that is truly vulnerable to this virus. We should have been shouting it from the rooftops- if you are vulnerable (mostly those over 65 with serious underlying factors) then YOU need to do everything you can to isolate, quarantine, shutdown. And the rest of us be smart about your interactions with them.

Instead, we tried to shutdown the 99.5% of the country who basically were completely healthy and fine and faced no danger from this virus to protect the 0.5% who did. That is complete insanity- it should have been the other way around. I will use my family as an example. My parents/in laws are all in their 70s/80s and my MIL in particular would be very vulnerable were she to get the virus. By the logic we have followed so far as a country, the whole rest of my family would have to shut down and not leave our houses so that we could be sure to not get the virus and "kill our parents/grandparents" THAT IS RIDICULOUS. Instead, we have gone on with our lives and just been smart about how we deal with them. And our parents have been smart about it, only getting out when they have to. You aren't going to "kill your grandma" unless you and your grandma are completely dumb about how you go about it.

To put it another way- if I myself was 75 and was super vulnerable to this virus, then I MYSELF would take it upon myself to keep myself save. I certainly and absolutely would never in a million years expect the rest of my family (and the rest of the world) to lock themselves down and shut the world down to keep away from me. That is complete insanity.

You can do the research if you want, I won't bother you all with the details, but it is a 100% fact that this shutdown/lockdown/restrictions we have voluntarily accepted will do far more damage, both in deaths and in just flat out ruining lives, than Covid itself will ever do.

I know many will completely disagree with probably every single thing I have said here- and if so just agree to disagree. I don't even have the mental strength to debate it back and forth- it is too depressing.

But just wanted to put forth my two cents.....

 

[drwpreds]

Another CoVID causality, Demo’s closes its downtown Nashville location.

OMG- I wish I had not seen that today- that completely ruins my day. We don't even live in Nashville, but Demos is our favorite restaurant and was our gameday meal for every Preds game we go to.

So depressing- and completely unnecessary. We are voluntarily, systematically destroying our country for no reason......

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

You are honestly saying you think we should be shutdown even more than we already have been, and for several more months??

I am not sure i have ever disagreed with something more in all the years I have been on this board. There is absolutely zero evidence that shutdowns have any effect whatsoever. In fact, there is just as much data and evidence supporting just the opposite of what you are saying.

You cannot control a pandemic/virus. You can't hide from it. There is just as much evidence that shutting down actually PROLONGS a pandemic.

I still firmly believe years from now we are going to look back on our reaction to this as one of the biggest blunders in US history.

I said this before and i will say it again- our reaction from day 1 should have been to do whatever it took to protect the tiny fraction of our country that is truly vulnerable to this virus. We should have been shouting it from the rooftops- if you are vulnerable (mostly those over 65 with serious underlying factors) then YOU need to do everything you can to isolate, quarantine, shutdown. And the rest of us be smart about your interactions with them.

Instead, we tried to shutdown the 99.5% of the country who basically were completely healthy and fine and faced no danger from this virus to protect the 0.5% who did. That is complete insanity- it should have been the other way around. I will use my family as an example. My parents/in laws are all in their 70s/80s and my MIL in particular would be very vulnerable were she to get the virus. By the logic we have followed so far as a country, the whole rest of my family would have to shut down and not leave our houses so that we could be sure to not get the virus and "kill our parents/grandparents" THAT IS RIDICULOUS. Instead, we have gone on with our lives and just been smart about how we deal with them. And our parents have been smart about it, only getting out when they have to. You aren't going to "kill your grandma" unless you and your grandma are completely dumb about how you go about it.

To put it another way- if I myself was 75 and was super vulnerable to this virus, then I MYSELF would take it upon myself to keep myself save. I certainly and absolutely would never in a million years expect the rest of my family (and the rest of the world) to lock themselves down and shut the world down to keep away from me. That is complete insanity.

You can do the research if you want, I won't bother you all with the details, but it is a 100% fact that this shutdown/lockdown/restrictions we have voluntarily accepted will do far more damage, both in deaths and in just flat out ruining lives, than Covid itself will ever do.

I know many will completely disagree with probably every single thing I have said here- and if so just agree to disagree. I don't even have the mental strength to debate it back and forth- it is too depressing.

But just wanted to put forth my two cents.....

This is from another planet as far as I am concerned. Alternate universe, perhaps. It's kind of where we're both at in terms of this debate though... the whole "I don't even have the mental strength to debate it back and forth - it is too depressing" is the one thing we can definitely agree on! So there is that!

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Numbers in California should be interesting in a week or so. It's been 100-110 and news coverage showing just flocks and flocks to the beaches (the beach is pretty gross at 90-95 degrees so I don't really get it) but nary a mask in sight in any of the reports/videos.

 

[FossilFndr]

Lost a friend and neighbor to COVID 19 today. He'd been in the hospital for approx a month. Had apparently 2 heart attacks while in hospital. Started with a cold that went from pneumonia to double pneumonia. Sounds like it got into his system then went from organ to organ.

 

[Adz]

Lost a friend and neighbor to COVID 19 today. He'd been in the hospital for approx a month. Had apparently 2 heart attacks while in hospital. Started with a cold that went from pneumonia to double pneumonia. Sounds like it got into his system then went from organ to organ.

So sorry, Foss. It's heartbreaking that people go through such suffering. I hope a cure is found soon.

 

[PredsV82]

You are honestly saying you think we should be shutdown even more than we already have been, and for several more months??

I am not sure i have ever disagreed with something more in all the years I have been on this board. There is absolutely zero evidence that shutdowns have any effect whatsoever. In fact, there is just as much data and evidence supporting just the opposite of what you are saying.

You cannot control a pandemic/virus. You can't hide from it. There is just as much evidence that shutting down actually PROLONGS a pandemic.

I still firmly believe years from now we are going to look back on our reaction to this as one of the biggest blunders in US history.

I said this before and i will say it again- our reaction from day 1 should have been to do whatever it took to protect the tiny fraction of our country that is truly vulnerable to this virus. We should have been shouting it from the rooftops- if you are vulnerable (mostly those over 65 with serious underlying factors) then YOU need to do everything you can to isolate, quarantine, shutdown. And the rest of us be smart about your interactions with them.

Instead, we tried to shutdown the 99.5% of the country who basically were completely healthy and fine and faced no danger from this virus to protect the 0.5% who did. That is complete insanity- it should have been the other way around. I will use my family as an example. My parents/in laws are all in their 70s/80s and my MIL in particular would be very vulnerable were she to get the virus. By the logic we have followed so far as a country, the whole rest of my family would have to shut down and not leave our houses so that we could be sure to not get the virus and "kill our parents/grandparents" THAT IS RIDICULOUS. Instead, we have gone on with our lives and just been smart about how we deal with them. And our parents have been smart about it, only getting out when they have to. You aren't going to "kill your grandma" unless you and your grandma are completely dumb about how you go about it.

To put it another way- if I myself was 75 and was super vulnerable to this virus, then I MYSELF would take it upon myself to keep myself save. I certainly and absolutely would never in a million years expect the rest of my family (and the rest of the world) to lock themselves down and shut the world down to keep away from me. That is complete insanity.

You can do the research if you want, I won't bother you all with the details, but it is a 100% fact that this shutdown/lockdown/restrictions we have voluntarily accepted will do far more damage, both in deaths and in just flat out ruining lives, than Covid itself will ever do.

I know many will completely disagree with probably every single thing I have said here- and if so just agree to disagree. I don't even have the mental strength to debate it back and forth- it is too depressing.

But just wanted to put forth my two cents.....

"Do the research if you want"

What utter twaddle. That's basically internet code for "my sources are crap but I'm gonna stick to my guns and make this claim anyway."

Here's the truth. I honestly believe what I wrote. I base that belief on a number of things including my education, personal experience, discussions with physicians who are actively treating COVID, and scholarly research in legitimate medical journals.

As a logic exercise, consider this. Since you and I basically believe the exact opposite of each other, one of the two of us is at least suffering from massive confirmation bias and gross misinformation, if not outright delusion.

I'm pretty comfortable with which one of us that is.

 

[lstcyr]

Lost a friend and neighbor to COVID 19 today. He'd been in the hospital for approx a month. Had apparently 2 heart attacks while in hospital. Started with a cold that went from pneumonia to double pneumonia. Sounds like it got into his system then went from organ to organ.

So sorry for your loss.