OT: COVID-19- March 17 2020 - No politics! Read post #1

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thewave

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Coronavirus: Australian researchers may have found a CURE | Daily Mail Online

"Drugs used to treat HIV and malaria could be used to tackle the coronavirus, according to scientists in Australia.

A team of infectious disease experts at the University of Queensland in Brisbane say they have seen two existing medications manage to wipe out COVID-19 infections.
Chloroquine, an anti-malarial drug, and HIV-suppressing combination lopinavir/ritonavir have both reportedly shown promising results in human tests and made the virus 'disappear' in infected patients."
 
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Joey Hoser

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If the mortality rate isn't as bad as what the media/gov say, and this turns out to be an overreaction to a lot of mixed messaging and media scare... couple that with loss of more rights and the real possibility of forced vaccinations etc. I think there are going to be a lot of very angry people in "fly-over country".

If we are successful in reducing the impact of this virus, people like you will say we overreacted. That's the greatest possible outcome.
 

ULF_55

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Grocery store workers and other public places willing to continue with their jobs deserve some praise.

A family member works in an essential services job, deals with the public, has allergies to chemicals but because of the cleaning they have to disinfect everything all the time.

She said she'd have to wear a mask, her manager said that would scare customers, so told her she can be their moral support and left her to deal with customers.

Would you shop somewhere if staff were wearing masks?

Yeah, tricky eh?
 
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JT AM da real deal

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Hmmmm.....interesting scenario for me. Sold my house at the end of November. Renting a place for the winter. Was on the cusp of making an offer on a place. Not really sure where to go with that now? Have had my eye on a place that was way overpriced. Before any of this hit, they dropped price a couple times and right before it hit dropped it again so that it has gone down about 30% from original ask. Again was way too high to begin with. Now I'm trying to figure out whether to leap or when?

On the upside because I sold when I did, I am fortunate enough to have zero debt and some money aside right now.
It is never easy to buy on da bottom. Much like selling at top. Right now things are all negative so assets are down everywhere. Now is as good a time to buy. Even if things drops another 20% they will all come back likely in a year or two. I am holding now.
 

JT AM da real deal

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Yea, different situations for a lot of folks. Myself am about to retire at end of April and my employer wants to immediately re-hire me back due to COVID-19. I've worked in front line health care my whole career and the big fear now is that our already over-crowded health care system will become overwhelmed by this virus. My health authority is reaching out to retirees to come back to work during the crisis. So instead of retiring, I am going to continue to work to help fight this. It beats sitting at home retired with no where to travel, eat out, etc, etc, etc.
A month ago I was feeling pretty high on life with my impending retirement, now....not so much.
Heh not sure where you are but according to my neighbour who is at Trillium in Mississauga emerg intake is more than 5X normal rate and it is escalating. When you see Premier Ford worried it is very real. Thanks for all you are doing and will do in future. I hope it is not like this in other places.
 
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thewave

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If we are successful in reducing the impact of this virus, people like you will say we overreacted. That's the greatest possible outcome.

Not at all. We will still have a death rate for those who get it. If it turns out to be similar to normal flu except for 80+ that are on oxygen etc, well at that point we just blew up our economy for nothing.
 

Pookie

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Oct 23, 2013
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Uh oh... I was planning my vacation to Portugal and France that supposed to start yesterday and end April 1st. After travel advisory by government thought about it for a day, but then with heavy heart cancelled everything - international flights, local flights, trains, hotels, apartments stays, etc.
So much effort was spent on planning, booking, research...
Airbnb actually gave me full refunds for all properties due to circumstances.
Booking.com still investigating in light of recent travel quarantine and movement restrictions imposed by Canada and France.
Air Transat gave credit for future use, but charged 300 in cancellation fees on otherwise non-refundable flights.
Flight from Porto to Bordeaux got cancelled today by easyJet.
Looking at virus spread graphs and news, I think I just might escaped near disaster.

You did.

Little known fact about travel insurance is that it most likely will not cover medical expenses for an illness if that illness is subject of a travel advisory in place and you booked after it was known.

If you did travel and got the virus... that expense is all yours.
 
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Pookie

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Not at all. We will still have a death rate for those who get it. If it turns out to be similar to normal flu except for 80+ that are on oxygen etc, well at that point we just blew up our economy for nothing.

Well just following the mental gymnastics here.... if we are following these restrictions and the death rate turns out to be similar or less... then wouldn’t it be logical that the restrictions and policies worked?
 
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ULF_55

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Not at all. We will still have a death rate for those who get it. If it turns out to be similar to normal flu except for 80+ that are on oxygen etc, well at that point we just blew up our economy for nothing.

Some people will do well, others will lose.

Some will look like geniuses others like failed casino's.

I'm hoping for the 2 year recovery.
 

thewave

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Well just following the mental gymnastics here.... if we are following this restrictions and the death rate turns out to be similar or less... then wouldn’t it be logical that the restrictions and policies worked?

The economy will kill more than the virus even @ 2% - Nourishment is important, shelter is important to immune system and hygiene. If it turns out to be only really a problem for at risk groups we could have taken another path. ie. Protect our elders and isolate them first and foremost.
 

JT AM da real deal

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Not at all. We will still have a death rate for those who get it. If it turns out to be similar to normal flu except for 80+ that are on oxygen etc, well at that point we just blew up our economy for nothing.
$$$ can and will come back. Lost lives never do. Travel young and accumulate debt to pay off later. When you are old you can't travel properly so you never do.
 

57 Years No Cup

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The economy will kill more than the virus even @ 2% - Nourishment is important, shelter is important to immune system and hygiene. If it turns out to be only really a problem for at risk groups we could have taken another path. ie. Protect our elders and isolate them first and foremost.
This^.
 

thewave

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PromisedLand

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Dec 3, 2016
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Coronavirus: Australian researchers may have found a CURE | Daily Mail Online

"Drugs used to treat HIV and malaria could be used to tackle the coronavirus, according to scientists in Australia.

A team of infectious disease experts at the University of Queensland in Brisbane say they have seen two existing medications manage to wipe out COVID-19 infections.
Chloroquine, an anti-malarial drug, and HIV-suppressing combination lopinavir/ritonavir have both reportedly shown promising results in human tests and made the virus 'disappear' in infected patients."

This is good news. Any medical experts here that can comment on whether taking HIV/Malaria drugs if one is not suffering from these could potentially have some short-term or long-term health impacts?
 
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PromisedLand

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Not at all. We will still have a death rate for those who get it. If it turns out to be similar to normal flu except for 80+ that are on oxygen etc, well at that point we just blew up our economy for nothing.

first long-term effects of the virus is not yet known; one medical story from hong kong was that even though one can recover from the virus they may still suffer 20% to 30% lung damage that would impact their everyday life.

Second, economy can always come back .... one can always make more money tomorrow; once lives are lost there is no way of getting them back.

Lives matter more than the economy
 

Big Muddy

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People have to realize that for most everyone this is just a big inconvenience. Yes some will lose jobs and others will see retirement savings decrease but for the vast majority life will be back to "normal" within a month or so. Now compare our current situation to a time when we were going through a world war. Then millions of people were dying and food and goods were rationed for years. That was a time of real suffering.
Of course, the current situation is not as bad as a world war.

But, I do fear that the economic impact could be worse than people expect.

Some folks use the stock market as a barometer of how well the economy is doing. But the stock market is not the metric for the economy, its GDP. In 2019, the GDP returned to levels in the same range as pre-2016.

And, from the market's perspective, corporate buy backs were responsible for a pretty large chunk of the market's growth. So, looking beyond the impact of corporate buybacks which acted as a bit of a sugar high, the other thing that's important is that between 40 - 50% of people are not even in the market.

There's a couple of other things to keep in mind. Interest rates were low, so given a climate of general consumer confidence, companies borrowed money. At the same time, U.S. debt increased by 1 trillion dollars. Many economists questioned adding a trillion dollars of debt to an economy that was doing well e.g. keep the fed powder dry for when stimulus was needed. A lot of economists use the level or ratio of a country's debt in relation to GDP as a warning bell. The alarm bells were sounding for a lot of economists before all of these recent events.

The bailouts that have been announced already equal another trillion dollars, and most financial experts expect another round of measures.

Companies that are leveraged will struggle mightily and I think we'll see a lot of companies go bankrupt (service industries, etc.). Lay-offs will increase, unemployment will go up, and the GDP growth will decrease, while the countries debt will significantly increase. The consumer has been the biggest driver of the economy in North America. If a lot of people aren't working, there won't be the same kind of spending levels from the consumer.

Most financial experts are now expecting a recession. Countries with 0% (or negative interest rates) have been in recessions for 10+ years e.g., Japan.

And, back to the stock market, it took markets 2 years on average to recover from the downturns in 1987, 1990, 2002 & 2008 (all large recent market downturns). So, I'm not sure there will be a quick recovery as some are expecting.

Anyhow, hope all of the above doesn't happen in a type of worse case scenario, but it certainly could happen. Hoping for the best.
 
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ULF_55

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...

And, back to the stock market, it took markets 2 years on average to recover from the downturns in 1987, 1990, 2002 & 2008 (all large recent market downturns). So, I'm not sure there will be a quick recovery as some are expecting.

Anyhow, hope all of the above doesn't happen in a type of worse case scenario, but it certainly could happen. Hoping for the best.

For me a 2 year recovery would be celebratory.

Anything quicker would be incredibly fortuitous.
 

Big Muddy

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Yea, different situations for a lot of folks. Myself am about to retire at end of April and my employer wants to immediately re-hire me back due to COVID-19. I've worked in front line health care my whole career and the big fear now is that our already over-crowded health care system will become overwhelmed by this virus. My health authority is reaching out to retirees to come back to work during the crisis. So instead of retiring, I am going to continue to work to help fight this. It beats sitting at home retired with no where to travel, eat out, etc, etc, etc.
A month ago I was feeling pretty high on life with my impending retirement, now....not so much.

Yes, for retirees (15% of population), both the stock market ugliness & no interest on fixed return assets is a bad cocktail.
 

Jojalu

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Feb 22, 2019
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If we are successful in reducing the impact of this virus, people like you will say we overreacted. That's the greatest possible outcome.


Great post.

The over reaction is the only sane reaction. I will gladly shake my head in disbelief when we win this fight and people complain we over reacted
 
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PuckMagi

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Apr 13, 2013
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This virus will affect people of all ages... even young people with no additional risk factors.

It is not possible to keep the economy going with the virus spreading.

Either we shut down the economy when there are a few thousand cases (yes, I know that only hundreds are confirmed at this point, but the real number is in the thousands)... or you shut it down when you have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of cases. If you never shut at all, you will get a complete collapse and anarchy.

The longer we wait to shut down, the worse the economy will get and more people will die.
 

lottster14

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Feb 10, 2019
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Cases in Canada are beginning to accelerate a bit. 478 cases now.

There were 13,000 new cases added worldwide yesterday, 15,000 new cases added so far today. 198,000 total
 
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