COVID-19/Coronavirus Talk - Part II

[EastonBlues22]

Part I

I suppose this is well past time in coming.

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[Ranksu]

I'm curious to see how quickly the vaccine becomes mandatory for essential workers outside the medical field.

I expect the initial batch to be sent to primary caregivers innthe medical field and trickle down to others in the medical field from there.

How is that distributed after the medical professionals are vaccinated? What other employees get prioritized before the mass roll out for the general public?

That is so hard to predict, but I assume when vaccine is ready for sale it takes 5-6 month to get when mass vaccination. And I highly doubt we'll get vaccine for people who work '1st line' before xmas. Or what you think will we get vaccination at xmas holidays.

What comes to NHL start, I doubt NHL players are priority #2-3. Or does Bettman open up his big wallet. I don't really think so.
I don't see any realistic chance to NHL start 1st of Janury not even training camps.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Sounds like getting finances lined up for the year so that both the owners and players are happy is a bigger stumbling block. I don't see fans in the stands until April best-case and even then I think it's going to be a rolling process.

 

[Brockon]

That is so hard to predict, but I assume when vaccine is ready for sale it takes 5-6 month to get when mass vaccination. And I highly doubt we'll get vaccine for people who work '1st line' before xmas. Or what you think will we get vaccination at xmas holidays.

What comes to NHL start, I doubt NHL players are priority #2-3. Or does Bettman open up his big wallet. I don't really think so.
I don't see any realistic chance to NHL start 1st of Janury not even training camps.

Depending on how they prioritize making the vaccine available to non-health care employees, at risk population etc...

I don’t see how the vaccine makes it into NHL hands in the second batch out. I can see the NHL having to wait until February or even March before getting anything IF the medical field is prioritized for January - even if they pay top dollar for it.

Primary care givers and medical personnel obviously should be prioritized. But then there's numerous other categories of front line workers that should be prioritized first. Fire fighters, tradesmen providing essential services and infrastructure employees (snow removal, transit employees, transportation employees responsible for shipping essential goods)... The list goes on.

If the NHL gets a vaccine for athletes before your medical and essential infrastructure positions do - I'll lose my f***ing mind. I mean there's arguments that your at risk individuals aren't considered until the 3rd category of people affected by vaccine roll outs, when you start vaccinations for your front line workers in grocery stores and other essential retail workers (or are these essential retailers phase 2 roll outs, with your essential infrastructure workers?).

If the NHL gets vaccines before at risk people (elderly, immuno comprised) there will be riots...

 

[tfriede2]

Depending on how they prioritize making the vaccine available to non-health care employees, at risk population etc...

I don’t see how the vaccine makes it into NHL hands in the second batch out. I can see the NHL having to wait until February or even March before getting anything IF the medical field is prioritized for January - even if they pay top dollar for it.

Primary care givers and medical personnel obviously should be prioritized. But then there's numerous other categories of front line workers that should be prioritized first. Fire fighters, tradesmen providing essential services and infrastructure employees (snow removal, transit employees, transportation employees responsible for shipping essential goods)... The list goes on.

If the NHL gets a vaccine for athletes before your medical and essential infrastructure positions do - I'll lose my f***ing mind. I mean there's arguments that your at risk individuals aren't considered until the 3rd category of people affected by vaccine roll outs, when you start vaccinations for your front line workers in grocery stores and other essential retail workers (or are these essential retailers phase 2 roll outs, with your essential infrastructure workers?).

If the NHL gets vaccines before at risk people (elderly, immuno comprised) there will be riots...

It depends on if the USG will be handling the entire process. Will people and private companies be able to obtain vaccines out of their own pocket if they wish? Or will the USG (or Canadian government) be dictating how all of the vaccines are rolled out, who can get it, etc? Is it possible that we see multiple lines of distribution, wherein one line could be a rollout to first responders/health care workers, then at-risk people, etc at no cost to the recipient, but other avenues are available for purchase? Has this formally been decided yet? The issue, of course, is the limited (initially) number of doses available...as a principle, I have no issues with people and private companies obtaining vaccines for purchase, but the initial number of limited doses complicates that. The other issue is what power the USG has to control this entire process and dictate the how, when, and who of the vaccination process.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

If the NHL gets vaccines before at risk people (elderly, immuno comprised) there will be riots...

Pfft, throw on a new season of The Masked Singer or The Voice or some reboot of Little House on the Prairie or whatever and 95% of America will be sufficiently distracted if they're not already apathetic and indifferent.

Seriously, I'm trying to think of anything that would motivate even 25% of America to actually get out of their sofas and recliners and take to the streets and demonstrate - and I'm not talking about the part of America on the coasts.

 

[Celtic Note]

Pfft, throw on a new season of The Masked Singer or The Voice or some reboot of Little House on the Prairie or whatever and 95% of America will be sufficiently distracted if they're not already apathetic and indifferent.

Seriously, I'm trying to think of anything that would motivate even 25% of America to actually get out of their sofas and recliners and take to the streets and demonstrate - and I'm not talking about the part of America on the coasts.

There are political topics that would motivate most of the south and Midwest. One of which rhymes with fun and while it can be, it can also end in tears.

Also if you took away their social media accounts, riots would ensue.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

There are political topics that would motivate most of the south and Midwest. One of which rhymes with fun and while it can be, it can also end in tears.

Also if you took away their social media accounts, riots would ensue.

Taking away social media accounts would be more likely to get people to riot. The gun owners segment is smaller than most realize. [Further discussion on that part starts to get political and I'll withhold in consideration of that.]

Seriously, we can't get motivated and serious enough to fight off a pandemic that affects our parents and grandparents and anyone else with serious medical issues because of performative outrage over muh freedom. We couldn't do it for 3 freaking months when doing all the necessary stuff would have eliminated much of what's going on right now and saved tens of thousands of lives. If we ever face a more serious threat to our society, we are f***ed because putting forward some effort and sacrificing just a little bit for any period of time beyond perhaps 4 days is way too difficult for way too many people.

 

[Celtic Note]

Taking away social media accounts would be more likely to get people to riot. The gun owners segment is smaller than most realize. [Further discussion on that part starts to get political and I'll withhold in consideration of that.]

Seriously, we can't get motivated and serious enough to fight off a pandemic that affects our parents and grandparents and anyone else with serious medical issues because of performative outrage over muh freedom. We couldn't do it for 3 freaking months when doing all the necessary stuff would have eliminated much of what's going on right now and saved tens of thousands of lives. If we ever face a more serious threat to our society, we are f***ed because putting forward some effort and sacrificing just a little bit for any period of time beyond perhaps 4 days is way too difficult for way too many people.

The ego rules the roost.

 

[EastonBlues22]

The ego rules the roost.

...unless one is an id-iot.

 

[Brockon]

Pfft, throw on a new season of The Masked Singer or The Voice or some reboot of Little House on the Prairie or whatever and 95% of America will be sufficiently distracted if they're not already apathetic and indifferent.

Seriously, I'm trying to think of anything that would motivate even 25% of America to actually get out of their sofas and recliners and take to the streets and demonstrate - and I'm not talking about the part of America on the coasts.

I said riots. I didn't say the entirety of the US or Canada. I don't recall putting a number to it, let alone 25% of the population as you voice in your response.

Depending on your categorization of what happened after George Floyd's death - protest vs riot in multiple locations across the US... I view the occurrences as riots - there was violence, looting and arson. I don’t recall overwhelming apathy, I recall riots.

I think you'd see large groups protesting and potentially rioting regarding a vaccine that could spare them from lockdowns and allow them to return to work relatively unimpeded being issued to pro athletes that shouldn't be living paycheque to paycheck over those being paid a minimum (or near minimum) wage to stock shelves and staff groceries stores, risking their lives daily and being forced to essentially self isolate outside of work (I may be projecting here, based on Canadian restrictions I'm subject to, but I can admit that).

I don't think you're going to see the apathy you describe just based on the widespread anti mask protests. If getting a vaccine allows one to live following pre-covid standards there will be huge uproars over who is issued the vaccination and when.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I said riots. I didn't say the entirety of the US or Canada. I don't recall putting a number to it, let alone 25% of the population as you voice in your response.

Depending on your categorization of what happened after George Floyd's death - protest vs riot in multiple locations across the US... I view the occurrences as riots - there was violence, looting and arson. I don’t recall overwhelming apathy, I recall riots.

I think you'd see large groups protesting and potentially rioting regarding a vaccine that could spare them from lockdowns and allow them to return to work relatively unimpeded being issued to pro athletes that shouldn't be living paycheque to paycheck over those being paid a minimum (or near minimum) wage to stock shelves and staff groceries stores, risking their lives daily and being forced to essentially self isolate outside of work (I may be projecting here, based on Canadian restrictions I'm subject to, but I can admit that).

I don't think you're going to see the apathy you describe just based on the widespread anti mask protests. If getting a vaccine allows one to live following pre-covid standards there will be huge uproars over who is issued the vaccination and when.

1. Nowhere did I mention Canada in my response, so I don't know how or why that showed up.
2. A number of protests happened after George Floyd. It wasn't 25% of the country involved.
3. The number of riots that actually took place were fairly small and it wasn't exclusively something done by protestors. This has been documented in several circles.
4. If 25% of the country couldn't get up in arms about racial injustice and police mistreatment and the disparity in police treat individuals based on race and/or perceived cause, they're sure as hell not getting up in arms over who gets access to a vaccine where the fatality rate is perhaps 2% at most and rarely represented by the young, healthy, and kids.
5. Even the anti-mask protests are a very vocal thing from a very small percentage of the population. There is a larger percentage who are anti-mask but who are going to sit in the local diner and bitch about it instead of getting off their asses and doing something - say, the people I was around the last two weeks.
6. While I seriously doubt pro athletes will be at the forefront for vaccinations, if you think there won't be "special access" given to certain groups of people who clearly shouldn't be and that no one will actually act up over it, I've got bad news for you.

Anything beyond the above is going to lead to pointless bickering and probably head down a path prohibited by forum rules, so ... if you want the last word, have at it and declare victory.

 

[Celtic Note]

...unless one is an id-iot.

Here to help.... lob up softballs! Lol

 

[MissouriMook]

Taking away social media accounts would be more likely to get people to riot. The gun owners segment is smaller than most realize. [Further discussion on that part starts to get political and I'll withhold in consideration of that.]

Seriously, we can't get motivated and serious enough to fight off a pandemic that affects our parents and grandparents and anyone else with serious medical issues because of performative outrage over muh freedom. We couldn't do it for 3 freaking months when doing all the necessary stuff would have eliminated much of what's going on right now and saved tens of thousands of lives. If we ever face a more serious threat to our society, we are f***ed because putting forward some effort and sacrificing just a little bit for any period of time beyond perhaps 4 days is way too difficult for way too many people.

I cringe to think how our current American population would have handled the sacrifices necessary of Americans in WWII much less what many of our European allies had to endure.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

I cringe to think how our current American population would have handled the sacrifices necessary of Americans in WWII much less what many of our European allies had to endure.

It would depend somewhat on the context of the flashpoint, but in general I think we'd see a similar fallout to what happened with the Vietnam War except with way more domestic protests and unrest. Most people seem to be either weak or lazy, but it could just be that those people are the vocal majority online. I think the 'salt of the earth' folks are usually too busy living their lives and contributing to society to post memes on social media. Dunno. Good chance we'll find out in the next decade or so either way.....

 

[Mike Liut]

Taking away social media accounts would be more likely to get people to riot. The gun owners segment is smaller than most realize. [Further discussion on that part starts to get political and I'll withhold in consideration of that.]

Seriously, we can't get motivated and serious enough to fight off a pandemic that affects our parents and grandparents and anyone else with serious medical issues because of performative outrage over muh freedom. We couldn't do it for 3 freaking months when doing all the necessary stuff would have eliminated much of what's going on right now and saved tens of thousands of lives. If we ever face a more serious threat to our society, we are f***ed because putting forward some effort and sacrificing just a little bit for any period of time beyond perhaps 4 days is way too difficult for way too many people.

doesn’t seem lockdowns and masks have slowed it much in places where these are mandated.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

doesn’t seem lockdowns and masks have slowed it much in places where these are mandated.

Extended commentary about way too many people still not taking common-sense steps to help slow/prevent spread goes here. Not to mention, lockdowns were supposed to help identify and isolate cases to prevent spread. I leave it to others to recall whether any of that was meaningfully attempted, much less whether people meaningfully cooperated with those attempts.

New Zealand figured it out. It's doing life as normal. Australia finally figured it out. It's mostly normal there. Taiwan is somewhere between the two, but by and large things are normal there. Compare/contrast with our approach. Seriously, this shouldn't have been difficult.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Extended commentary about way too many people still not taking common-sense steps to help slow/prevent spread goes here. Not to mention, lockdowns were supposed to help identify and isolate cases to prevent spread. I leave it to others to recall whether any of that was meaningfully attempted, much less whether people meaningfully cooperated with those attempts.

New Zealand figured it out. It's doing life as normal. Australia finally figured it out. It's mostly normal there. Taiwan is somewhere between the two, but by and large things are normal there. Compare/contrast with our approach. Seriously, this shouldn't have been difficult.

Too many folks in America fetishize stupidity. When ignorance is more highly valued than expertise by so many, this is result.

 

[Mike Liut]

50% of people are wearing bandanas and 99 cent single layer cloths. Those aren’t doing a damn bit of good.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

As if we need more examples of why we're not getting control of the pandemic, I'll give yet another example of it.

Family member, we'll call him J, has a girlfriend who we'll call H. They live in Southern Illinois. H is a paramedic. Knows about the coronavirus, did a rotation in NYC/NJ when it was raging through those areas so is (should be) familiar with the risks and dangers of exposure and has had to retrieve bodies of deceased from long-term care facilities in the area + transporting positive patients to various facilities in the region. H recently - within the last 3 weeks - came down with symptoms, but tested negative. [Allegedly tested negative 5x per J, but let's ignore that because it's a distraction from the point being made here.] Had symptoms beyond loss of taste/smell, such as physical exhaustion and breathing difficulty to the point that bedroom --> bathroom --> bedroom was a labor and a minimum 30-minute round trip. Exhaustion as in, couldn't stand in the shower by herself; just getting in and sitting on a chair was a process. Had this for ~2 weeks. Didn't go to the doctor, certainly didn't go to the hospital; did the self-diagnose, well the test says I'm negative so I don't have it thing.

J lives in the same house as H. J didn't go to work for 3 days, until H tested negative - at which point J went back to work. J also went to/from family on his side on a near-daily basis, which includes at least 2 people who would be classified as high-risk. [I believe the count of high-risk individuals could be as high as 5. Point being, it's >0 and that includes a parent and grandparent.] On at least 3 occasions, J decided that H just "needed to get out of the house and get some fresh air" and put H in a vehicle and drove to stores, putting H in a wheelchair and wandering around the store with H sometimes wearing a mask and J not wearing a mask. Because ... Southern Illinois. Also, because ... muh freedom and H doesn't have it so there's nothing to worry about.

J does not understand the problem with going out because "H tested negative, so there's no risk of passing it to anyone else." J will not discuss their current health situation at the moment, beyond "I don't see anything to worry about." H is still not cleared to return to work, though J thinks H should be allowed to go as "it's been 14 days since symptoms started, so she's not contagious." J is also positive that, despite being around H except for work and family, he could not have contracted the virus because "I'd know if I have it or not" and "I still don't think it's a real thing - it could be, but I seriously doubt it."

This, ladies and gentlemen, is how coronavirus continues to spread and why it may yet spread even after vaccines become available.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

As if we need more examples of why we're not getting control of the pandemic, I'll give yet another example of it.

Family member, we'll call him J, has a girlfriend who we'll call H. They live in Southern Illinois. H is a paramedic. Knows about the coronavirus, did a rotation in NYC/NJ when it was raging through those areas so is (should be) familiar with the risks and dangers of exposure and has had to retrieve bodies of deceased from long-term care facilities in the area + transporting positive patients to various facilities in the region. H recently - within the last 3 weeks - came down with symptoms, but tested negative. [Allegedly tested negative 5x per J, but let's ignore that because it's a distraction from the point being made here.] Had symptoms beyond loss of taste/smell, such as physical exhaustion and breathing difficulty to the point that bedroom --> bathroom --> bedroom was a labor and a minimum 30-minute round trip. Exhaustion as in, couldn't stand in the shower by herself; just getting in and sitting on a chair was a process. Had this for ~2 weeks. Didn't go to the doctor, certainly didn't go to the hospital; did the self-diagnose, well the test says I'm negative so I don't have it thing.

J lives in the same house as H. J didn't go to work for 3 days, until H tested negative - at which point J went back to work. J also went to/from family on his side on a near-daily basis, which includes at least 2 people who would be classified as high-risk. [I believe the count of high-risk individuals could be as high as 5. Point being, it's >0 and that includes a parent and grandparent.] On at least 3 occasions, J decided that H just "needed to get out of the house and get some fresh air" and put H in a vehicle and drove to stores, putting H in a wheelchair and wandering around the store with H sometimes wearing a mask and J not wearing a mask. Because ... Southern Illinois. Also, because ... muh freedom and H doesn't have it so there's nothing to worry about.

J does not understand the problem with going out because "H tested negative, so there's no risk of passing it to anyone else." J will not discuss their current health situation at the moment, beyond "I don't see anything to worry about." H is still not cleared to return to work, though J thinks H should be allowed to go as "it's been 14 days since symptoms started, so she's not contagious." J is also positive that, despite being around H except for work and family, he could not have contracted the virus because "I'd know if I have it or not" and "I still don't think it's a real thing - it could be, but I seriously doubt it."

This, ladies and gentlemen, is how coronavirus continues to spread and why it may yet spread even after vaccines become available.

No vaccine for stupid.

 

[Mike Liut]

99% survival rate. Easy pass for me on the vaccine they are trying to rush to the masses.

 

[Quaz]

99% survival rate. Easy pass for me on the vaccine they are trying to rush to the masses.

^^This!
The reason this virus is spreading is that the tests that are being used have 60% false positive results I will say that I know more people personally that have tested positive, but in all cases very mild symptoms. I also personally know Doctors that have had the courage to come out tell the truth only to be rewarded with death threats against themselves and their families. I'm not saying I don't believe the virus doesn't exist and isn't dangerous to the older population (+65) and those with co-morbidities, I'm just saying that the numbers that are being reported cannot be trusted, and the fear mongering is by design to drive profit to big pharma.

 

[Blueline2757]

It may sound like I'm an anti vaxxer that's not the case as I've had every vaccine under the sun. I'm not sure if I'd feel safe having covid vaccine that's been very rushed and not very well tested, even though the media says it's safe. I don't believe anything the media says. If they make it compulsory I'm going to flat out refuse and it's my right. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks that way.

^^This!
The reason this virus is spreading is that the tests that are being used have 60% false positive results I will say that I know more people personally that have tested positive, but in all cases very mild symptoms. I also personally know Doctors that have had the courage to come out tell the truth only to be rewarded with death threats against themselves and their families. I'm not saying I don't believe the virus doesn't exist and isn't dangerous to the older population (+65) and those with co-morbidities, I'm just saying that the numbers that are being reported cannot be trusted, and the fear mongering is by design to drive profit to big pharma.

I agree. I'm not denying covid, It is real but some of the numbers the government's are reporting they skew them to make it look wose than it is. I'm getting tired of the constant fear mongering.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

99% survival rate. Easy pass for me on the vaccine they are trying to rush to the masses.

^^This!
The reason this virus is spreading is that the tests that are being used have 60% false positive results I will say that I know more people personally that have tested positive, but in all cases very mild symptoms. I also personally know Doctors that have had the courage to come out tell the truth only to be rewarded with death threats against themselves and their families. I'm not saying I don't believe the virus doesn't exist and isn't dangerous to the older population (+65) and those with co-morbidities, I'm just saying that the numbers that are being reported cannot be trusted, and the fear mongering is by design to drive profit to big pharma.

I .......... just don't even have the energy for this, other than to point out it's comments like this that (not directing this at you specifically here. Yet?) reinforce my belief that way too many people are fully invested in dumbing down America for their self-esteem and to pwn everyone and everything they despise. It's the ultimate middle finger at everything, f*** the consequences.