OT: Coronavirus XXIX: Is This Even the Right Damn Roman Numeral? New Measures to Curb Stomp COVID?

[Little Fury]

The CBC article is classic precontemplation. You know what its going to say, what its angle is going to be before even reading it. Then you read it and know it matched what is by now expected from it.

Wow crazy how that works when you have a massive bias yourself.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

My issue with all of this is people are begging to keep businesses open for the economy. The economy this, the economy that. But won't do a few f***ing simple things. Measures get tougher and tougher because people simply don't give a shit.

Social distance, wear a mask, wash your hands, limit close contact.

pretty much everyone is doing this
go to West Ed today and tell me how many aren't doing this..I guarantee you it's barely a handful, I mean 1 or 2

It's a simple god damn concept yet so many feel their right to party and do whatever they want is the most important thing but then cry when the economy is being slowed. They cry about small businesses but they shop at Walmart and eat out only at Boston Pizza.

I wish people would still hiding behind the economy and just be honest. They give zero shits about people dying and getting sick. They give zero shits about the health care industry and doctors and nurses are useless to them anyways so who cares about their well-being.

f*** I'm in an industry that's literally dead right now and will be the LAST one back. I'd love for things to go back to normal and life to move on and stupid shits who whine and bitch and complain about having to follow a couple simple rules are prolonging this so freaking long. So many selfish f***ing people in this province and this world.

well we wanna blame "Albertans" but the fact is it's not isolated to Alberta, cases are literally up everywhere in the world
it's the cold and flu season, people stay indoors a lot more
blaming it on the generic "selfish people" doesn't solve anything

 

[CycloneSweep]

Wow crazy how that works when you have a massive bias yourself.

"The CBC is going to say something that's left leaning so clearly it's fake and wrong"
Ignoring that just because it's left or "anti Alberta" doesn't make it wrong.

 

[Little Fury]

"The CBC is going to say something that's left leaning so clearly it's fake and wrong"
Ignoring that just because it's left or "anti Alberta" doesn't make it wrong.

It's textbook confirmation bias with a healthy sprinkle of Dunning-Kruger on top.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

yikes, a lot of labelling and stereotyping here

any questioning the narrative= lack of education

wowers

A lot of (though still surely a minority of) ivory tower academics really can't stand the fact that a bunch of us dumb ole hicks have been able to make lots of money "turning wrenches" in this province over the last 20 years. High paying jobs should be reserved for university educated enlightened, haven't you heard? We're just here to fix their Lexus when it breaks and stop trying to meddle in societal concerns.

Personally, I've always found the "lack of education" (by which they mean lack of a formalized university education specifically) line directed at people who hold a different view on these matters to be very revealing of a person's true attitude.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Wow crazy how that works when you have a massive bias yourself.

I don't recall having a paid journalism gig where what I state in articles is in my professional purview and responsibility.

Some might even state something about your evident bias. I would if I gave a damn. You've made it clear you are not here to have discussion.

 

[CycloneSweep]

pretty much everyone is doing this
go to West Ed today and tell me how many aren't doing this..I guarantee you it's barely a handful, I mean 1 or 2



well we wanna blame "Albertans" but the fact is it's not isolated to Alberta, cases are literally up everywhere in the world
it's the cold and flu season, people stay indoors a lot more
blaming it on the generic "selfish people" doesn't solve anything

But it is the selfish f***ing people. It's the selfish and the people who don't give a shit

Go into any grocery store and sure people are probably wearing a mask. A good handful not wearing it right. Most grocery stores to help with social distancing have arrows in the aisles directing flow of traffic which so many people have stopped giving a shit about. You came watch them look at the arrow, shrug their shoulders and keep going.

I wouldn't consider thousands of people going to malls to fun shop limiting close contact either.

And you know what I will blame Alberta. We are doing the worst in the province by a decent margin. Sure you could blame the weather and more people staying in doors but is it shocking with the way the province has always been that we are shitting the bed comparatively.

 

[harpoon]

Funny I don't recall saying that or commenting on the substance of the article at all. Looks like you're injecting your personal biases and ignoring what's actually being said, which is sadly all too common here.

What’s actually being said? Chocolate turds ... vs ‘journalism’. I drew my own conclusions based on the sum of your posts. I’m comfortable with that.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If you have listened to Hinshaw at all in the last few days she has pretty much made it clear she has no control and simply suggests things that are obviously not being taken seriously about the government. You don't need the CBC article to tell you that.

I have, and this is not accurate. This is your narrative.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I have, and this is not accurate. This is your narrative.

I mean if you want to ignore what's being said and the clear subtext of it as well because you don't want to believe it, be my guest.

 

[GOilers88]

You do realize that the issue is and always has been that if you just let this disease just run rampant cause "only the sick are dying" then the death rate goes up and up from Covid deaths and people who don't have Covid but need to get treated in the now packed hospitals.

I mean I guess we could just ignore it, expose everyone to it and let it's just work its way thru everyone. Sure it may kill a bunch of people but who cares, they were old and weren't perfectly healthy to begin with. Screw em!

I acknowledged that the fear has always been hospitals being overrun. But locking everyone up and hiding from it isn't exactly a great approach either. Shutting down small business, a lot of which will never open again, and allowing big box stores to remain open while funneling EVERYONE into them also seems to be a head scratcher. The most at risk are ALWAYS the most at risk for everything. We should be more concerned about isolating them and restricting them while also allowing everyone else to go about their business with some of the mandates we have in place. You're really trying to insinuate that I'm advocating for just letting people die which I think is pretty greasy.

There's just a lot of holes in the logic, that's all. That said I have abided and will continue to abide by the rules. But I feel there are a lot of valid questions to be asked about the handling.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

But it is the selfish f***ing people. It's the selfish and the people who don't give a shit

Go into any grocery store and sure people are probably wearing a mask. A good handful not wearing it right. Most grocery stores to help with social distancing have arrows in the aisles directing flow of traffic which so many people have stopped giving a shit about. You came watch them look at the arrow, shrug their shoulders and keep going.

I wouldn't consider thousands of people going to malls to fun shop limiting close contact either.

so what should we do then?

And you know what I will blame Alberta. We are doing the worst in the province by a decent margin. Sure you could blame the weather and more people staying in doors but is it shocking with the way the province has always been that we are shitting the bed comparatively.

I mean B.C hit record high yesterday, Ontario and Quebec is record a couple weeks ago
Manitoba is a gong show with the highest death rates in Canada
let's not even talk about Europe's 2nd wave or California hitting record highs despite strict lockdowns for months there
so blame Alberta all you want, but we are not alone

 

[Little Fury]

There is a reason AB is the way it is.

Too many backwards people who lack advanced critical thinking skills. Were able to make solid money without enough or any education in the humanities to become critical thinkers. Which was generally fine but not when it comes to this complex new world of susceptibility to online disinformation. But now the easy money is drying up and there is going to be a huge swath of the population going forward that is undereducated or undertrained, feeling cheated by society because of their lack of prospects, and even more susceptible to polarization.

Not to take things too off track, but i read an article this week and found one piece quite fascinating in talking about how Albertans view their political culture:

WARNING BIAS FAKE ARTICLE FROM THE FAILING CBC

Jared Wesley, a professor of political science at the University of Alberta, has a little experiment he uses when asking participants about the province in his ongoing study of politics and culture. He gets them to sketch out their typical Albertan and then he asks questions about what that Albertan would do in certain situations.
The Albertan — here nicknamed "Joe" — is always male, often a farmer, a libertarian conservative.
The point is not to find out what the participants think about certain situations, but what they think the typical Albertan will do in an attempt to narrow in on what people believe the political culture to be — that which determines what is acceptable and what is possible.
In the pandemic, Joe reacts in a specific way.
"They will tell you, like you see in the media everywhere, they'll tell you all Albertans will never stand for mask mandates because it's an infringement on their freedoms," says Wesley.
That sort of statement comes from people across the political spectrum, not just those who agree with their typical Albertan.
...
"Do a survey like we just did three or four weeks ago: Albertans are massively in favour of heavier restrictions," says Wesley.
"You ask them on an individual basis, would you like to see a provincewide mask mandate, doesn't matter if they're rural areas. Absolutely, it's the right thing to do. They going to push for it? No, because they don't think that the rest of the province would accept it."

Alberta is a very highly educated culturally and politically diverse place, but actual Albertans don't actually see it that way, which is a great recipe for social inertia that suits certain interests very well.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

But it is the selfish f***ing people. It's the selfish and the people who don't give a shit

Go into any grocery store and sure people are probably wearing a mask. A good handful not wearing it right. Most grocery stores to help with social distancing have arrows in the aisles directing flow of traffic which so many people have stopped giving a shit about. You came watch them look at the arrow, shrug their shoulders and keep going.

I wouldn't consider thousands of people going to malls to fun shop limiting close contact either.

And you know what I will blame Alberta. We are doing the worst in the province by a decent margin. Sure you could blame the weather and more people staying in doors but is it shocking with the way the province has always been that we are shitting the bed comparatively.

Repeat after me. cases are up all over the world, cases are up all over the world, cases are up all over the world. Feelings don't override facts. Whether you like Albertans or not is irrelevant to the reality of the situation. Your feelings don't matter.

Math does not lie.

Everyone here is wearing a mask and following the rules. If you are going to find one idiot and stick your bias to an entire region because of your bias, that's your anger issues and you eventually have to deal with it or it will eat you up inside.

Also if you are from here, then please take your ass to a more progressive haven so you can feel comfortable and like minded in your illogical intolerance. If you already live in another place in Canada, then its not really your place to say what the populace are like when all you are gauging how people are is opinion pieces on CBC. No matter which way your opinion is guided, either by CBC pundits, or actually living here and being an extreme expert in how every Albertan behaves, either way you look like an Ignoramus and still lose.

Please point to the part of the Doll where an Albertan hurt you.

 

[Little Fury]

What’s actually being said? Chocolate turds ... vs ‘journalism’. I drew my own conclusions based on the sum of your posts. I’m comfortable with that.

There is, despite what you might think, a vast gulf between opinion pieces and reportage.

 

[Little Fury]

I don't recall having a paid journalism gig where what I state in articles is in my professional purview and responsibility.

wut

Some might even state something about your evident bias. I would if I gave a damn. You've made it clear you are not here to have discussion.

No I'm actually here to get constantly lectured by you because i'm a f***ing masochist, apparently.

 

[bone]

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying the death numbers are skewing the hospitalization/ICU numbers in some way? just looking for some clarity.

Not that. I'm saying that I suspect that there is likely cases in long term care facilities where individuals with multiple co-morbidities would be treated without moving to a hospital or dying before receiving similar care as it wouldn't make sense that there almost as many deaths as hospitalizations and many more deaths than ICU visits.

In other words, I suspect most of the deaths in the 1 or less comorbidity group were also hospitalized and likely ICU, but there are likely quite a few in the multiple comorbidities that died without hospitalization or ICU, or recovered after receiving similar care, just not in a hospital. Again, I don't have proof but the numbers suggest that it is possible.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Considering hypertension is in most fatal cases in Alberta, a person in his thirties possibly didn't even know he had hypertension. In my thirties I don't think I had a physical until the later part once I had kids. Also before having kids I was never sick so never went to a doctor. Fortunately, now that I go, my blood pressure is great, but I could have been a ticking timebomb in my late 20s and early 30s and barely have known it.

This reminds me of a guy I played ball with and went to school with and also a pretty fit fellow...played hockey, football, basketball-all that stuff. Went out for wings with some buddies and he just dropped and slumped off his chair. They thought he was choking but couldn't revive him or get him to start breathing again. The autopsy study found he had an undiagnosed heart condition and he died of cardiac arrest. They said there was no saving him, he was dead before he hit the floor and wouldn't have known what was happening.

edit: I forgot to add he was in his early 20s.

 

[CycloneSweep]

so what should we do then?


I mean B.C hit record high yesterday, Ontario and Quebec is record a couple weeks ago
Manitoba is a gong show with the highest death rates in Canada
let's not even talk about Europe's 2nd wave or California hitting record highs despite strict lockdowns for months there
so blame Alberta all you want, but we are not alone

Thats why I said, if you actually read what I said, there is a lot of selfish people on this province, and this world. Yes numbers are up pretty much everywhere. A second wave was to be expected and to be harsher.

However, what is not acceptable is...

Okay you mention California. Their record high contributed to 6% of the USAs daily Covid total while being one of the HIGHEST population sense states. California has 12% of the population of the entire United States. So even though they had a shit ton of cases, they are actually performing below the mean.

Now take Alberta.
Yesterday we had 1265 new cases, which was 25% of the nation's daily cases. Alberta has about 9% of Canada's population. So 9% of the population has been accounting for 25% of the nation's daily cases.

Tell me how that's us not doing bad and just "well the numbers are up everywhere"

 

[CycloneSweep]

Repeat after me. cases are up all over the world, cases are up all over the world, cases are up all over the world. Feelings don't override facts. Whether you like Albertans or not is irrelevant to the reality of the situation. Your feelings don't matter.

Math does not lie.

Everyone here is wearing a mask and following the rules. If you are going to find one idiot and stick your bias to an entire region because of your bias, that's your anger issues and you eventually have to deal with it or it will eat you up inside.

Okay math doesn't lie. Alberta has 9% of Canada's population and for the last while have been contributing 25% of the new cases daily.

Like you said, facts don't care about your feelings.

Yes numbers are up everywhere, doesn't mean we aren't doing bad comparitively.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

A lot of (though still surely a minority of) ivory tower academics really can't stand the fact that a bunch of us dumb ole hicks have been able to make lots of money "turning wrenches" in this province over the last 20 years. High paying jobs should be reserved for university educated enlightened, haven't you heard? We're just here to fix their Lexus when it breaks and stop trying to meddle in societal concerns.

Personally, I've always found the "lack of education" (by which they mean lack of a formalized university education specifically) line directed at people who hold a different view on these matters to be very revealing of a person's true attitude.

Well, I don’t see “academics” touting that they run the province with the high paying jobs like you just did. You’re right about a persons true attitude.

I think I’m done with this god awful, backwards ass forum. f*** this place.

 

[CycloneSweep]

There is, despite what you might think, a vast gulf between opinion pieces and reportage.

To some people there isn't. If it's in a news paper, it's reporting.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

Okay math doesn't lie. Alberta has 9% of Canada's population and for the last while have been contributing 25% of the new cases daily.

Like you said, facts don't care about your feelings.

Yes numbers are up everywhere, doesn't mean we aren't doing bad comparitively.

We also did not start the virus, we were not the first to deal with the virus. And the Federal government had a responsibility to ensure that restrictions on travel happened as soon as possible so we did not have to deal with this crap for a whole year.

We cover our mouths when we cough, we wash our hands, and we don't eat Pangolin road kill. I would say that's extremely progressive compared to the place the Wu Flu came from.

You sound like someone that has his girlfriend stolen by a person from the prairies and have not been able to get over it.

Let go of your anger my friend.

 

[Little Fury]

Not that. I'm saying that I suspect that there is likely cases in long term care facilities where individuals with multiple co-morbidities would be treated without moving to a hospital or dying before receiving similar care as it wouldn't make sense that there almost as many deaths as hospitalizations and many more deaths than ICU visits.

In other words, I suspect most of the deaths in the 1 or less comorbidity group were also hospitalized and likely ICU, but there are likely quite a few in the multiple comorbidities that died without hospitalization or ICU, or recovered after receiving similar care, just not in a hospital. Again, I don't have proof but the numbers suggest that it is possible.

I see. Thanks for taking the time to clarify that.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Thats why I said, if you actually read what I said, there is a lot of selfish people on this province, and this world. Yes numbers are up pretty much everywhere. A second wave was to be expected and to be harsher.

However, what is not acceptable is...

Okay you mention California. Their record high contributed to 6% of the USAs daily Covid total while being one of the HIGHEST population sense states. California has 12% of the population of the entire United States. So even though they had a shit ton of cases, they are actually performing below the mean.

Now take Alberta.
Yesterday we had 1265 new cases, which was 25% of the nation's daily cases. Alberta has about 9% of Canada's population. So 9% of the population has been accounting for 25% of the nation's daily cases.

Tell me how that's us not doing bad and just "well the numbers are up everywhere"

Now do Manitoba...
yeah, some place are better and some are worse