OT: Coronavirus XXIX: Is This Even the Right Damn Roman Numeral? New Measures to Curb Stomp COVID?

[Stoneman89]

Guess it depends on what kind of clientele he's trying to attract. But I guess we already know the answer to that. So ya, probably will attract a few more of the type he's going for.

I'm guessing they probably don't supply utensils or napkins at his establishment.

 

[Stoneman89]

Lot better odds enforcement will happen in a restaurant/bar than at a private residence, where the chance is zero.

Exactly. And if, as he says, no one will follow the rules anyhow, by that logic, why bother shutting them down, since they'll just continue to thumb their nose at the law and stay open or open up again, as they please.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Honestly I think he is doing some fabulous marketing.

I have no idea what any of you are talking about. Some dbag that opened a Barbecue joint. Sorry, what?

 

[Spawn]

Lot better odds enforcement will happen in a restaurant/bar than at a private residence, where the chance is zero.

Is anyone who is advocating for in restaurant dining to be closed arguing against also restricting social gatherings within the home?

This argument seems pointless. It's not an either or scenario.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I have no idea what any of you are talking about. Some dbag that opened a Barbecue joint. Sorry, what?

Some dbag in Toronto refused to shut down his restaurant yesterday, twice. Made the national news for it.

Some say it was just a marketing ploy, others say he has the best BBQ in town.

 

[Drivesaitl]

MOD

worst part is sounds like they didn’t use any elderly people. One way to improve your numbers.

I pointed out exactly this in the last thread, and that all the 90% effective numbers are probably somewhat a function of exactly who they are using in the trials, and elderly people or those with comorbid conditions unlikely to want to be included I would think.

 

[nabob]

Family involved in theft of $11M of COVID-19 relief funds, Ontario government claims

Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

I hope they find the biggest book possible and throw at them as hard as possible.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Some dbag in Toronto refused to shut down his restaurant yesterday, twice. Made the national news for it.

Some say it was just a marketing ploy, others say he has the best BBQ in town.

Thanks, as it turns out I should've just googled it. When you're not on twitter you tend to miss the round of all these gone viral kinds of things.

 

[snipes]

Some dbag in Toronto refused to shut down his restaurant yesterday, twice. Made the national news for it.

Some say it was just a marketing ploy, others say he has the best BBQ in town.

Guy is just trying to pay his bills and survive.

Frankly, small businesses need further aid packages. Not more of Trudeau’s loans and being buried in further debts just to survive.

I don’t condone breaking the law of course, but I can empathize and understand why some may deem it necessary to survive. Small businesses are the life blood of our economies and entrepreneurs have been hit especially hard from this.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Guy is just trying to pay his bills and survive.

Frankly, small businesses need further aid packages. Not more of Trudeau’s loans and being buried in further debts just to survive.

I don’t condone breaking the law of course, but I can empathize and understand why some may deem it necessary to survive. Small businesses are the life blood of our economies and entrepreneurs have been especially hard from this.

So just setup a Barbecue to go, strictly, establishment. No reason not to do it that way, or are they not allowing that in Ontario? From what I skimmed seems like he's just doing this stunt as a freedom gesture.

 

[Stoneman89]

By the very spacing of their tables due to social distancing, their capacity has been reduced to about 50 % in some cases.​

But that was not a legal requirement before. If a place had a capacity of say, 50 people, and could rejig their layout to ensure there was 2 metres between parties, they could still by law have 50 people in the place. Also, what the capacity is matters: the Common in Edmonton for example has a capacity of 150, so at 50% that’s still 75 people (plus staff) breathing the same air, yelling, and drinking.



Restaurants have HAD to follow physical distance rules since the opening back up, and that has not changed, despite what you say. Look it up. If you only have so much space, you can only re-jig so much. I haven't been to any restaurants that have so much space in them, that they can space everything 2 meters apart without losing customer space. How this can even be argued is ridiculous. And for a guy that insinuates he hasn't been out to eat during this pandemic and can hardly wait to get his vaccination shot so that he feels comfortable, you sure throw a lot of shit out there with no practical experience.

 

[Stoneman89]

Someone call me when the next 10-15 pages of arguing about Kenney/Notley is done.

No problem. As soon as Notley finally shuts the f*** up.

 

[oilexport]

Its gonna be a tough couple months. I mean nuts. Then life gets normal again by spring.

Disinfect whenever possible. Masks, clean ones. Hand sanitizer. Minimize contact.

Trust me, I had a brush with it. I could have easily killed a couple people that are in their twilight years. Young peeps are dying too.

So that care !!

 

[Little Fury]

Is anyone who is advocating for in restaurant dining to be closed arguing against also restricting social gatherings within the home?

This argument seems pointless. It's not an either or scenario.

It is if your only real concern is not ticking off the business lobby that funds your political party.

 

[Stoneman89]

Ok liar.

Says the guy that stated Manitoba started their lockdown a week ago. And insists there was no social distancing in restaurants, that he hasn't been to.

 

[snipes]

So just setup a Barbecue to go, strictly, establishment. No reason not to do it that way, or are they not allowing that in Ontario? From what I skimmed seems like he's just doing this stunt as a freedom gesture.

I don’t necessarily believe that people who are trying earn a living are just doing this as a “gesture” and as if freedom is something to be joked around about.

I have more than one type of business and I’m complying with all the rules imposed upon me, but I can certainly understand restaurant owners especially doing whatever they can to survive.

Any freedom loving person (as we all should be) can empathize with it, even if I don’t agree I understand his and other peoples reasoning as to why they’re doing whatever they can to stay afloat.

I can fully understand trying to do everything possible to avoid complete financial collapse.

 

[Little Fury]

CDC: Dining out tied to coronavirus infections

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don’t necessarily believe that people who are trying earn a living are just doing this as a “gesture” and as if freedom is something to be joked around about.

I have more than one type of business and I’m complying with all the rules imposed upon me, but I can certainly understand restaurant owners especially doing whatever they can to survive.

Any freedom loving person (as we all should be) can empathize with it, even if I don’t agree I understand his and other peoples reasoning as to why they’re doing whatever they can to stay afloat.

I can fully understand trying to do everything possible to avoid complete financial collapse.

You totally mistook my post. I simply asked why he is not operating currently as a take out, and getting people to support his business that way, instead of pulling the purposely defying stunt? I wasn't joking about freedom or taking it lightly. Just that this guy is clearly just pulling a stunt, wants to get a violation etc. On the surface it looks like he's just trying to draw similar people that just want to defy restrictions.

As a lawyer you probably ahve a much different view of this than most people would which is fair. But I don't think the guy is vying this as some kind of court challenge.

 

[snipes]

You totally mistook my post. I simply asked why he is not operating currently as a take out, and getting people to support his business that way, instead of pulling the purposely defying stunt? I wasn't joking about freedom or taking it lightly. Just that this guy is clearly just pulling a stunt, wants to get a violation etc. On the surface it looks like he's just trying to draw similar people that just want to defy restrictions.

As a lawyer you probably ahve a much different view of this than most people would which is fair. But I don't think the guy is vying this as some kind of court challenge.

I think I see what you’re saying a little better now, he’s trying to be a martyr essentially.

Like a “fine me or arrest me” and see the public backlash that ensues.

You’re right, and a point as a lawyer to be made is a law is only as effective as it is enforced and believed in by the people. I’m a natural law theorist for my jurisprudence philosophy so I believe some laws are just and others are not.

I don’t really take a position on the legality of lockdowns, because public welfare is at stake and there are public interests that could vitiate the restrictions on our Charter protected freedoms. Personally, myself and my businesses will be complying with all mandates from the Feds and Provincial government imposed upon myself and my businesses.

However, I do understand and can empathize with small business owners just trying to stay afloat.

 

[Little Fury]

Restaurants have HAD to follow physical distance rules since the opening back up, and that has not changed, despite what you say. Look it up. If you only have so much space, you can only re-jig so much. I haven't been to any restaurants that have so much space in them, that they can space everything 2 meters apart without losing customer space. How this can even be argued is ridiculous.

I said there was no legal requirement or recommendation to reduce capacity and that is true. It's in the link I shared. Nor did I say no one lost any space, only that it was theoretically possible to meet the requirements and maintain full capacity, depending on the space, which is true. But ultimately the point here is this: there's plenty of evidence and common sense to show that bars and restaurants (as well as church services) are likely contributors to the spread even with social distancing measures in place, but the lack of data makes it impossible to know for sure. However that lack of data didn't stop the province from instituting draconian measures to restrict private gatherings. Makes you wonder.

And for a guy that insinuates he hasn't been out to eat during this pandemic and can hardly wait to get his vaccination shot so that he feels comfortable, you sure throw a lot of shit out there with no practical experience.

You'd think the part where I talked about how the current eating out and drinking experience sucks would be a clue, but nah.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

You totally mistook my post. I simply asked why he is not operating currently as a take out, and getting people to support his business that way, instead of pulling the purposely defying stunt? I wasn't joking about freedom or taking it lightly. Just that this guy is clearly just pulling a stunt, wants to get a violation etc. On the surface it looks like he's just trying to draw similar people that just want to defy restrictions.

As a lawyer you probably ahve a much different view of this than most people would which is fair. But I don't think the guy is vying this as some kind of court challenge.

Because of money. Having a big rocking joint where people go for a night out and get a big bill is far more profitable then getting bent over backwards by skip the dishes.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think I see what you’re saying a little better now, he’s trying to be a martyr essentially.

Like a “fine me or arrest me” and see the public backlash that ensues.

You’re right, and a point as a lawyer to be made is a law is only as effective as it is enforced and believed in by the people. I’m a natural law theorist for my jurisprudence philosophy so I believe some laws are just and others are not.

I don’t really take a position on the legality of lockdowns, because public welfare is at stake and there are public interests that could vitiate the restrictions on our Charter protected freedoms. Personally, myself and my businesses will be complying with all mandates from the Feds and Provincial government imposed upon myself and my businesses.

However, I do understand and can empathize with small business owners just trying to stay afloat.

Thanks man for reading it over, you got what I was saying this time. I din't mean gesture as that this is not an important issue, just that this particular establishment is playing this up as a stunt. Appreciate your view on this as well.

 

[snipes]

Thanks man for reading it over, you got what I was saying this time. I din't mean gesture as that this is not an important issue, just that this particular establishment is playing this up as a stunt. Appreciate your view on this as well.

No problem, I strive to be intellectually honest in comprehending peoples positions in my discourses. Hockey fanaticism notwithstanding, with the childlike zeal that we have where none of us are rational lol.

It’s tough times though, I have friends who own restaurants who are calling me in tears trying to legally get out of their leases and are losing their life savings trying to keep things afloat.

Not all businesses and corporations are flush with operating capital. A lot of small businesses who are the life blood of our economy have been devastated by this.

Further Trudeau loans, which amount to a nominal amount don’t really help when it’s further debt saddling people that are already extended financially.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Because of money. Having a big rocking joint where people go for a night out and get a big bill is far more profitable then getting bent over backwards by skip the dishes.

hmm. maybe this should be outed more as an obstacle to business. I support establishments directly by GOING to the place to pick it up. Figure its the least I can do to help out. I don't like supporting these deliver to door middle man ventures. We coordinate a pick up with other activities we are doing.

i dunno, rarely have used delivered food options at any time. just seems lazy to me. Now if the vendors are getting gouged, ripped off by these ventures (I always wondered) people shouldn't be getting the food that way if they actually want to help the vendor.

Place is a rib joint. Didn't know it was a rocking joint?

In anycase the gig during pandemic is keeping your business afloat, it just is. Its not about getting huge fines and getting shutdown, and enforced.

There is a Chinese restaurant in edmonton that got shutdown 15 times in one year. They thought they could just disobey and keep opening. When authorities know you are defying,and saying you are defying, they ring your number fast and frequently. The guy is just going to get shut down. Where's he at then?

 

[Stoneman89]

I said there was no legal requirement or recommendation to reduce capacity and that is true. It's in the link I shared. Nor did I say no one lost any space, only that it was theoretically possible to meet the requirements and maintain full capacity, depending on the space, which is true. But ultimately the point here is this: there's plenty of evidence and common sense to show that bars and restaurants (as well as church services) are likely contributors to the spread even with social distancing measures in place, but the lack of data makes it impossible to know for sure. However that lack of data didn't stop the province from instituting draconian measures to restrict private gatherings. Makes you wonder.



You'd think the part where I talked about how the current eating out and drinking experience sucks would be a clue, but nah.

Semantics. If you have a typical restaurant, the tables are not 2 meters apart (especially the new hipster ones like Corso 32 and Meat). It's common sense that if you have to pull them at least twice as far apart, if not more, then you have drastically reduced seating capacity. And the social distancing has always been a requirement since opening them up. And if you didn't do it, you faced a very good chance of being shut down. The only possible alternative to this, is that lovely and attractive plexiglass that some of them used, but even that could only be used on certain tables.

At any rate, you think they should shut restaurants down other than pickup and delivery, and I think they should have the choice. And we are never going to agree on that.