News Article: Contract talks for Senators’ Matt Duchene: update - no numbers [Part 2]

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It would be nice, yes. Glad for them and would love a top notch coach. But they also have 5 possible UFAs who have not committed to the team

It just goes to show Eugene need s to switch his strategy here and get some actual capable people if there's any hope.

NYI have some tough decisions for sure, but those guys aren't close to the level of Stone and Duchene, they're more like a bunch of Dzingel's. Lehner has been a one year shocker after being average all his career, so that's just a tough spot many teams get in on one year show me deals. Filpulla doesn't matter and could be kept for cheap.

 

[JD1]

Notice how we drafted all three of those players and we got Turris out of a mess in Arizona while he was still an RFA? Did you also notice how all of them left as they became UFAs (except Alfie who had already been a UFA before bailing)? I rest my case.

I never said Ottawa was awful and everyone wants out. I said it isn't an attractive option for UFAs, meaning that a lot of players (yes not all, we managed to hold on to Spezza and Heatley), when given the choice, don't want to come to Ottawa/prefer going somewhere else.

Unless i'm mistaken Turris, Karlsson and Afie wanted to stay

 

[coladin]

We still didn't attract UFAs when we were a powerhouse team.

Ottawa simply is not attractive to the elite. There is nothing wrong that, I just find people who claim "but it is on this spot on the list of best places to live" to be grasping at straws while failing to understand that the elite don't live life like us.

And yet no one seems to want to leave here. Turris , Karlsson and Alfie didn't want to leave. Heatley had to leave, as did Hoffman. So getting UFAs I agree, but people here leaving is not very common. Spezza left for his reasons.

 

[coladin]

It just goes to show Eugene need s to switch his strategy here and get some actual capable people if there's any hope.

NYI have some tough decisions for sure, but those guys aren't close to the level of Stone and Duchene, they're more like a bunch of Dzingel's. Lehner has been a one year shocker after being average all his career, so that's just a tough spot many teams get in on one year show me deals. Filpulla doesn't matter and could be kept for cheap.

I'm totally on board with money going towards Quenneville or Vigneault, more than a GM. If anything, seeing what Julien and Trotz are doing with arguably similar lineups should make management reconsider their coaching budget

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Unless i'm mistaken Turris, Karlsson and Afie wanted to stay

Hossa wanted to stay too.

That isn't the point though. The point is that Ottawa has trouble with high end UFAs, for a variety of reasons. The City being "ok" is one of them.

 

[supsens]

Hossa wanted to stay too.

That isn't the point though. The point is that Ottawa has trouble with high end UFAs, for a variety of reasons. The City being "ok" is one of them.

Nothing against the city nor are they fighting words but finding established management could be hindered by where people want to live also.

 

[Silencio]

And yet no one seems to want to leave here. Turris , Karlsson and Alfie didn't want to leave. Heatley had to leave, as did Hoffman. So getting UFAs I agree, but people here leaving is not very common. Spezza left for his reasons.

Bobby Ryan stayed too. Yes Ottawa had to (drastically as it turned out) overpay, but some other team would have given him the same deal if he had decided to go to free agency.

 

[JD1]

Hossa wanted to stay too.

That isn't the point though. The point is that Ottawa has trouble with high end UFAs, for a variety of reasons. The City being "ok" is one of them.

Ottawa would need to pursue high end UFAs in order to dugure out if could lahd them. We don't pursue them.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Ottawa would need to pursue high end UFAs in order to dugure out if could lahd them. We don't pursue them.

...And why is that?

Because we know it is a complete waste of time. They won't chose Ottawa (for various reasons)

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'm totally on board with money going towards Quenneville or Vigneault, more than a GM. If anything, seeing what Julien and Trotz are doing with arguably similar lineups should make management reconsider their coaching budget

Agreed on the coach, its badly needed, enough trying to find cheap diamonds in the rough. Dorion has 3 stars and many other players like Ceci, Anderson, etc. To deal this deadline, so we'll see I guess, but if we see more of the same he should be let go. There are many other people out there we can try, can't do much worse imo.

 

[JD1]

...And why is that?

Because we know it is a complete waste of time. They won't chose Ottawa (for various reasons)

You may be right but surely you see that is speculation

 

[bert]

Unless i'm mistaken Turris, Karlsson and Afie wanted to stay

You are mistaken they all left. So its really hard to say if they wanted to stay.

Hossa was dealt after signing an extension so its safe to say he wanted to stay.

 

[BatherSeason]

And yet no one seems to want to leave here. Turris , Karlsson and Alfie didn't want to leave. Heatley had to leave, as did Hoffman. So getting UFAs I agree, but people here leaving is not very common. Spezza left for his reasons.

Unless i'm mistaken Turris, Karlsson and Afie wanted to stay

There is absolutely no way that I am searching through thousands of posts, but wasn't the general consensus amongst the a few in here was that Karlsson wanted out? Now he wanted to stay? I'm confused, the spinning is taking its toll on me.

 

[JD1]

You are mistaken they all left. So its really hard to say if they wanted to stay.

Hossa was dealt after signing an extension so its safe to say he wanted to stay.

Well wasn't Karlsson crying at his press conference saying he never thought it would come to this?

Wasn't Turris's wife tweeting about melnyk not wanting him?

Wasn't Alfie upset about his departure.

I'd suggest Bert that you are naive but i think we both know better than that

 

[JD1]

There is absolutely no way that I am searching through thousands of posts, but wasn't the general consensus amongst the a few in here was that Karlsson wanted out? Now he wanted to stay? I'm confused, the spinning is taking its toll on me.

The spinning is crazy and in the karlsson situation it was on overload.

Did he want out? If he did wtf was he doing up at the podium crying about leaving? He wasn't sincere in those tears? If he wanted out then shouldn't PD be absolved of blame for trading him?

That's not the way it works my man

PD is blamed for trading him but if it's expedient to complain about guys not wanting to stay then the dial is reset and EK wanted to leave because this place is awful. Pay attention. Thats how it works.

I wonder what the dial will be set to next week?

Personally i am not convinced that signing Stone and Duchene is the right thing to do. [MOD]

 

[BatherSeason]

The spinning is crazy and in the karlsson situation it was on overload.

Did he want out? If he did wtf was he doing up at the podium crying about leaving? He wasn't sincere in those tears? If he wanted out then shouldn't PD be absolved of blame for trading him?

That's not the way it works my man

PD is blamed for trading him but if it's expedient to complain about guys not wanting to stay then the dial is reset and EK wanted to leave because this place is awful. Pay attention. Thats how it works.

I wonder what the dial will be set to next week?

Personally i am not convinced that signing Stone and Duchene is the right thing to do. But part of me hopes it happens just to shut some of you guys the **** up. It'll be truly interesting to see how the complaint spin-o-meter gets switched if they do sign them.

I think you are confused with who exactly is doing the spinning. I and many others have stated from the beinning that Karlsson wanted to be here and that Melnyk was the problem. My opinion has never wavered. Some posters were adamant that Karlsson wanted out, and now its being spun as "he wanted to be here" and its the fans fault he left.

Here are some examples of posts from one poster in particular being adamant that Karlsson wanted out:

He wanted out and the Ottawa citizen says he turned down 88.

Its not even a thing. He refused to negotiate, it has nothing to do with a NTC. He refused to commit or even talk with them. Good god the NTC thing isnt even real. He wanted out

They did make him an offer he refused to negotiate, did you ever think his refusal to commit is what caused them to rebuild? Short of putting a gun to his head what other choice did they have?

Did anyone stop to think EM stepped in and stopped the first trade because he decided the backlash and loss of EK wasnt going to be good. They were then forced to trade him because he wouldnt commit?

I also agree that I am unsure if signing Stone/Duchene is the right thing to do if you are rebuilding, however, this organization has done so much to ruin their own brand and done so much to ruin the their relationship with their own fanbase, that they HAVE to sign one if not both of these guys. For the Ottawa Senators to survive, they absolutely owe it to their fans. Apathy is setting in, which is never good, and no matter what side of the argument you fall on, you have to admit that.

 

[JD1]

I think you are confused with who exactly is doing the spinning. I and many others have stated from the beinning that Karlsson wanted to be here and that Melnyk was the problem. My opinion has never wavered. Some posters were adamant that Karlsson wanted out, and now its being spun as "he wanted to be here" and its the fans fault he left.

Here are some examples of posts from one poster in particular being adamant that Karlsson wanted out:

He wanted out and the Ottawa citizen says he turned down 88.

Its not even a thing. He refused to negotiate, it has nothing to do with a NTC. He refused to commit or even talk with them. Good god the NTC thing isnt even real. He wanted out

They did make him an offer he refused to negotiate, did you ever think his refusal to commit is what caused them to rebuild? Short of putting a gun to his head what other choice did they have?

Did anyone stop to think EM stepped in and stopped the first trade because he decided the backlash and loss of EK wasnt going to be good. They were then forced to trade him because he wouldnt commit?

I also agree that I am unsure if signing Stone/Duchene is the right thing to do if you are rebuilding, however, this organization has done so much to ruin their own brand and done so much to ruin the their relationship with their own fanbase, that they HAVE to sign one if not both of these guys. For the Ottawa Senators to survive, they absolutely owe it to their fans. Apathy is setting in, which is never good, and no matter what side of the argument you fall on, you have to admit that.

I do agree apathy has set in. Isn't that what fat cat city ottawa is often accused of? Being apathrtic about just about everything.

As for Karlsson..,,i think both sides got what they wanted. Karlsson wanting out but needing to cast some blame on the team and the team not wanting to risk signing him but needing to throw out a contract offer big enough to say we tried.

 

[BatherSeason]

Karlsson wanting out but needing to cast some blame on the team and the team not wanting to risk signing him but needing to throw out a contract offer big enough to say we tried.

Which is it? Did he want to stay or go? You just said this earlier today:
Unless i'm mistaken Turris, Karlsson and Afie wanted to stay

I do agree apathy has set in. Isn't that what fat cat city ottawa is often accused of?

This isn't an Ottawa issue, its a Melnyk issue. The only city that has an NHL team and would put up with this Melnyk garbage is Toronto, other than that, move Melnyk to any other franchise and let him do exactly what he has been doing to this organization and you will have apathy at this point.

 

[Sweatred]

Unless i'm mistaken Turris, Karlsson and Afie wanted to stay

I recall Turris was open to staying if he got the money he wanted which was $6 million x 6 which in "Ottawa tax land" is closer to $7 million x6.

Last I checked in year 2 of his deal Turris has 3 goals and <20 points. Logan Brown could conceivable outscore him next year. That contract could have been a massive boat anchor had we kept him.

 

[JD1]

You just said this earlier today:
Unless i'm mistaken Turris, Karlsson and Afie wanted to stay


This isn't an Ottawa issue, its a Melnyk issue. The only city that has an NHL team and would put up with this Melnyk garbage is Toronto, other than that, move Melnyk to any other franchise and let him do exactly what he has been doing to this organization and you will have apathy at this point.

Sorry for the confusion...my bad

My personal belief with Karlsson is both sides got what they wanted

But i believe board consensus was he wanted to stay

The discussion started over the Sens signing high end UFAs and our not being able to do that because they won't come to Ottawa but i think the issue is we don't pursue high end UFAs so we don't really know if they'd come to ottawa.

Our guys certainly got up to the podium and cried that they wanted to stay. That's all i highlighted in response to another poster indicating they chose to leave.

 

[JD1]

I recall Turris was open to staying if he got the money he wanted which was $6 million x 6 which in "Ottawa tax land" is closer to $7 million x6.

Last I checked in year 2 of his deal Turris has 3 goals and <20 points. Logan Brown could conceivable outscore him next year. That contract could have been a massive boat anchor had we kept him.

I agree and think it was the right hockey decision to cut bait on him as a plsyer

 

[JimmySpaetzle]

The issue with signing high-profile players isn’t our city, it’s the owner. You can’t tell me that Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, or Nashville are that much more exciting to live in than Ottawa. The difference is there’s excitement around their teams, and they have winning cultures at the moment.

 

[GrantLemons]

Sorry for the confusion...my bad

My personal belief with Karlsson is both sides got what they wanted

But i believe board consensus was he wanted to stay

The discussion started over the Sens signing high end UFAs and our not being able to do that because they won't come to Ottawa but i think the issue is we don't pursue high end UFAs so we don't really know if they'd come to ottawa.

Our guys certainly got up to the podium and cried that they wanted to stay. That's all i highlighted in response to another poster indicating they chose to leave.

Unfortunately I don't think it was that black and white. I truly believe EK wanted to stay, but under new ownership. He seemed truly crushed in his presser, like he just took a massive gut punch. His body language spoke volumes that day.

Technically you're not wrong, but I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

 

[stempniaksen]

The issue with signing high-profile players isn’t our city, it’s the owner. You can’t tell me that Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, or Nashville are that much more exciting to live in than Ottawa. The difference is there’s excitement around their teams, and they have winning cultures at the moment.

Winnipeg hasn't really been able to bring in Free Agents historically either. Pittsburgh is more of a case of players wanting to play with 2 of the best in the game, it'll be interesting to see what happens there when Crosby and/or Malkin leave.

I don't think you've ever been to Nashville if you think it's in the same tier as Ottawa when it comes to entertainment. They also have the tax benefit that most southern states do, as opposed to Ottawa where it's the opposite.

I mean, the owner is a big part of it, but I think there's something to be said about Ottawa (and most Canadian teams in general) having a harder time attracting Free Agents.

 

[JimmySpaetzle]

Winnipeg hasn't really been able to bring in Free Agents historically either. Pittsburgh is more of a case of players wanting to play with 2 of the best in the game, it'll be interesting to see what happens there when Crosby and/or Malkin leave.

I don't think you've ever been to Nashville if you think it's in the same tier as Ottawa when it comes to entertainment. They also have the tax benefit that most southern states do, as opposed to Ottawa where it's the opposite.

I mean, the owner is a big part of it, but I think there's something to be said about Ottawa (and most Canadian teams in general) having a harder time attracting Free Agents.

I agree, I’m just saying hat I don’t think the main reason free agents decide not to sign here is because it’s Ottawa, it’s because it’s Ottawa, and Eugene Melnyk is the owner, and we have had no sense of any kind of direction for some time now. And yes Pittsburgh has Crosby and Malkin, but we did have the best defenseman on the planet for 10 years